FirebirdGuy Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hello fellow guitarists, I hope you are having a wonderful day! I purchased a 2013 Gibson Firebird V a month ago off of eBay. My first Gibson !!! The guitar was delivered in perfect condition and there were no issues with the quality of the instrument--the neck appears to be perfect, there are no dings or scratches, and no electronics issues. I am loving the sound and feel of the instrument, but there seems to be a problem with the high-E string. Every time I play the E string in the higher frets--12th fret and above--it has a "reverb" resonating sound to it. As if the high-e string has its own reverb effect applied. The other strings do not exhibit this issue. Please click here to view my video of this issue! A few additional notes: The guitar came--perfect condition--with a Stetsbar tremolo, from the previous owner. I removed it and replaced it with the original Gibson hardware--Tune-o-Matic bridge and tailpiece. I adjusted the action and tailpiece so that strings are ringing clearly. I've tried adjusting the pickups, but have not heard a difference. I can hear this sound without playing through an amp. The reverb sound resonates when I pluck the high-e string. I have been playing guitar for 10 years and have never heard/seen this problem on my other guitars. Sources have told me to deaden the nut with a rubber band, adjust the pickup height, alter the action, make sure the strings are not touching the back of the bridge. These tips have not fixed the problem. I have even switched the direction of the bridge saddles, but no success. I have isolated the resonating sound to the bridge-tailpiece area, in the space between the tailpiece and the bridge--it makes a sound of ringing metal. If I put a cloth in there, the annoying reverb sound disappears and the E string plays fine. I am curious as to why this would be the case. Thank you and your help is greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hello FirebirdGuy, and welcome here. In short, I wouldn't care. This is definitely normal. For further information you may read on. You described exactly what basically happens on most of my guitars - exceptions see below. The effect is negligible for wound strings except during attack, but plain strings may have a distinctive ring. Depending on guitar and the notes played, it always appears more or less between bridge and tailpiece, and between nut and machine heads, too, in particular when playing open strings. The longer the string portion, the more it occurs. E. g. my L6-S guitars are affected much stronger than Les Paul and SG models. However, it is fairly audible through the piezo bridge of my SG Supra, but it doesn't hurt since the ring only lasts longer if it's at a matching overtone. Dissonant ringing dies within a fraction of a second. There's next to no signal transduced by magnetic pickups. I tried using felt stripes to find out if sustain is affected. There were no audible differences. Fender Tele and Strat designs are prone to it between nut and tuners only, and resonances between locking nut and machine heads of Floyd Rose guitars are absolutely insignificant. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thank you capmaster for the reply! This is such a strange issue to me because the noise happens on one string. When I was trying out a Firebird in a music store before buying, I never noticed it. Albeit, it was a cream colored one so I am not sure if the non-wood finish had anything to do with deadening the resonance. Maybe the sunburst model resonates more because of the wood. I have never experienced this on my Les Paul or other guitars so it is a very interesting phenomenon--kind of like you mention. It seems weird that they would make a guitar that would resonate much greater with that one string. The strange thing is that my guitar idol, Allen Collins of Lynyrd Skynyrd, never experienced these problems on his Firebird III--at least that's what I know from listening to him play. Do you think, placing a maestro tremolo on their would deaden the resonance at all? If it ends up being purely a normal guitar issue like you mention, I will simply deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Between nut and tuner the G3rd reacts most on the majority of my guitars. Between Tune-O-Matic respectively Ibanez Gibraltar and tailpiece it depends mostly on the notes played. The lengths of these string portions depend on intonation adjustment. Therefore they may accidentally match overtones of some notes very precisely and ring. An unconventional measure might help. If there's enough height left without damaging the finish around the bushings, lowering the tailpiece until the affected string bears on the bridge's rear edge may interrupt the resonance path. Tuning strings completely down before turning the screws is strongly recommended. However, it may mar the bridge or even cause a string to break. I think such resonances would bother me on an acoustic guitar, but as long as it isn't put out through the amp I don't care on electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Interesting! I would not mind if the noise happened when I am playing unplugged however it happens when I play through an amp. The strings were originally set touching the back of the bridge--which I have found wears the string out very quickly. Should I take it to a guitar tech to fix it--especially when I hear the string noise through an amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 I think they are sympathetic vibrations coming from somewhere in the bridge area. I have no idea how to fix them though. I have changed out the bridge and tailpieces, but no success. Is there anything inside the pickup housing that could rattle. Like I mentioned before, the ringing sound stops when I place a cloth between the tailpiece and bridge. Very strange...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 How high is the tailpiece? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hi rct, The tailpiece is against the body, as low as it can go. I have adjusted the tailpiece many different ways--including having the strings touch the back of the bridge and not touch the back of the bridge--but it does not seem to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Is there air under the thumbwheel(s) of the bridge? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 No, not when I have the tremolo on, and not from what I can tell. The ringing happens with both the tremolo--which allows no air on the body--and the tailpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 What a mystery. I didn't believe it was that much until I listened to the video. It sounds like a microphonic tube in the amp. If it is in fact the guitar, if you can find a way to reproduce the sound with one hand, being able to grab parts of the guitar with the other would make it easier to find it. Might try putting a capo on it so you can pluck it with one hand. It could be a string rattling in the nut slot (from a nut slot cut too wide), could be a pickup vibrating. Truss rod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Thank you for commenting!! The noise happens outside of the amp. I hear it in the bridge area. I have not seen any issues with the nut and have tried two different guitar bridges. I'm not an expert with the nut but I figure that the noise happens in the e and sometimes b strings. It really sounds like symphonic resonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Thank you for commenting!! The noise happens outside of the amp. I hear it in the bridge area. I have not seen any issues with the nut and have tried two different guitar bridges. I'm not an expert with the nut but I figure that the noise happens in the e and sometimes b strings. It really sounds like symphonic resonance. It's LOUD...that's why it "sounds" like a microphonic tube. It's loud enough, to be able to say, that WHERE you hear it isn't where it is coming from. Where the sound is originating is getting back into the "acoustic" sound of the guitar. Man, it's really hard to guess over the net. And I hate to run you on a goose chase. The reason I guess maybe the nut, the Firebird has a straight pull on the strings, AND a large headstock. An improper cut nut, that is 'square' allows the string to glide well (as it should), but also lets the string "rattle" in the slot side to side. This isn't an issue with typical Gibson headstocks where the string pull is also sideways. But can be with Fender-types. The sound also "sounds" a lot like plucking the strings above the nut (Or behind the bridge). Again though, I stress the most success you will have in finding the issue is if you can free up a hand, and be able to paw the guitar at spots, listening for a change in the sound as you reproduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Now with a sufficient web data rate I have been able to listen to your video. What I heard are overtones of open strings you didn't mute while playing. Just mute all the strings you don't want to sound, and the problem will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 True, I agree that it is the symphonic resonance of the strings. I notice that when I mute the other 5 strings the e string does not ring with the reverb. However this reverb issue occurs much less on my other guitars--maybe because of the one piece neck?? I can mute the other strings when I play but it involves me changing my technique to some degree-which makes me feel slightly uncomfortable. I will take it to a tech to see what he thinks. And I may glue a foam strip to the tremolo to reduce the resonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Any guitar will ring out if you don't mute the strings. Your palm should be there ready to mute the non played strings. Look at videos explaining it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMII37neQD8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdGuy Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 That is exactly the issue I was having. Perhaps I was experiencing this because my other guitars feel differently than the Firebird--where I felt comfortable picking with my hand on top of the bridge instead of in front of it. I never had an issue with my LP or Strat because they are set up differently than my Firebird. Thank you for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 ... Perhaps I was experiencing this because my other guitars feel differently than the Firebird--where I felt comfortable picking with my hand on top of the bridge instead of in front of it. ... That's indeed very likely. Different guitar shapes may affect the player's posture. For me it's the Telecaster shape which calls for more attention to string muting. It comes even easier to me on guitars with floating Floyd Rose systems requiring a "light hand" for correct intonation. But however, this is the price I have to pay - I don't want back stops on FRs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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