Ebhaugen Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I've got a beautiful 2013 SG original with the Maestro tailpiece ( which I NEVER use ). Great guitar - sounds good, plays easy, very comfortable. One thing - it will not stay in tune. I play with a light touch ( I was jazz-trained ). My tech says it's the combination of thin neck, thin body, heel construction, and maestro that is creating a perfect storm of unreliability. I really like the SG body shape - my question is : It looks like the newer Guild Polaras have a sturdier heel and a thicker body, as well a stop tailpiece. Seems like it would be much more stable, yes? Any experience/advice would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 If you could stop the 'going out of tune' business by replacing the machine heads/tuning gears, would you keep the SG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 If you could stop the 'going out of tune' business by replacing the machine heads/tuning gears, would you keep the SG? Oh yeah most definitely! However, I'm fearful that replacing the machines would help. A buddy of mine had a es339 that wouldn't stay in tune - he replaced everything - tuners, nut, and bridge. No improvement. Is Gibson using soft wood these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgplayers Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 By wont stay in tune, I am curious. How often does it need tuned. I tune mine every hour or so sometimes more. I don't think about it much. That is a really nice guitar hope you get it worked out. I also use nut sauce. Have you tried a lube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 By wont stay in tune, I am curious. How often does it need tuned. I tune mine every hour or so sometimes more. I don't think about it much. That is a really nice guitar hope you get it worked out. I also use nut sauce. Have you tried a lube? Mine moves with the temp / humidity. Doesn't reliably go sharp or flat. I teach guitar lessons with it and tune it constantly. Tried nut sauce, graphite, etc. it's a pretty guitar, but I can't use it for sessions or gigs because it'd embarrass me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Really, there is no way to know over the net. If there was one thing, we could guess, or give the standard answer of "it's the nut" when the description leads that way. But it sounds like you got that knowledge at least. One thing I would encourage you to consider: moving a guitar from location to location, where there are temperature changes, it WON'T stay in tune until it acclimates to the new environment. Any guitar. Some better than others, but still, out of tune is out of tune. I agree with the tech. All these things may cause it to go out more often, or to a greater degree. But at the same time, tuning a guitar and making sure it is in tune, and doing it quickly, is a skill all guitar players should have, AND there is nothing embarrassing about doing so. Oh..and one can't have too many guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgplayers Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I wish I could of helped, there are quite a few knowledgeable people here that can. I have got a few answers here that I couldn't get else where. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Really, there is no way to know over the net. If there was one thing, we could guess, or give the standard answer of "it's the nut" when the description leads that way. But it sounds like you got that knowledge at least. One thing I would encourage you to consider: moving a guitar from location to location, where there are temperature changes, it WON'T stay in tune until it acclimates to the new environment. Any guitar. Some better than others, but still, out of tune is out of tune. I agree with the tech. All these things may cause it to go out more often, or to a greater degree. But at the same time, tuning a guitar and making sure it is in tune, and doing it quickly, is a skill all guitar players should have, AND there is nothing embarrassing about doing so. Oh..and one can't have too many guitars. I'm talking about the low e going sharp halfway through teaching a 7 year old how to play happy birthday. Not after bends or hard hitting. Yes, guitars go out of tune when moved - but this one lives in my studio. And yes, tuning a gtr quickly is great. I'm used to having to move a string mid song if I've been doing crazy bends, but it's hard to pin it down when there's NO predictability to the sg's movement. I'm a Berklee trained professional guitarist so I refuse to blame my hands ☺️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'm talking about the low e going sharp halfway through teaching a 7 year old how to play happy birthday. Not after bends or hard hitting. Yes, guitars go out of tune when moved - but this one lives in my studio. And yes, tuning a gtr quickly is great. I'm used to having to move a string mid song if I've been doing crazy bends, but it's hard to pin it down when there's NO predictability to the sg's movement. I'm a Berklee trained professional guitarist so I refuse to blame my hands ☺️ Ah...I see. Just in case, wasn't trying to imply your guitar didn't have an issue, or that you needed to learn something from me (as if you didn't know). Sounds like perhaps, this particular guitar does have an issue somewhere, besides just the description the tech gave you. And again, it's hard for a guy (like me) to say what it is over the net, not having experienced it for myself. Can only give ideas, my friend. In my experience, the only times I have had strings that suddenly go sharp, the trem is the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Really, there is no way to know over the net. If there was one thing, we could guess, or give the standard answer of "it's the nut" when the description leads that way. But it sounds like you got that knowledge at least. One thing I would encourage you to consider: moving a guitar from location to location, where there are temperature changes, it WON'T stay in tune until it acclimates to the new environment. Any guitar. Some better than others, but still, out of tune is out of tune. I agree with the tech. All these things may cause it to go out more often, or to a greater degree. But at the same time, tuning a guitar and making sure it is in tune, and doing it quickly, is a skill all guitar players should have, AND there is nothing embarrassing about doing so. Oh..and one can't have too many guitars. I too, have a 2013 SG "Orginal." It has no more tuning issues, than ANY of my other guitars! And, I'm NOT a "light touch" kind of player (even when I TRY to be... ) I ALWAYS replace Gibson plastic nuts, with Bone. My dealer knows it's just part of the deal, with me. I used to have tuning issues, that drove me crazy, with my (otherwise) stable 2000 LP Classic, and it's stop tailpiece. I took it to my dealer, to have them install a bone nut (I had purchased the guitar, in California) and had the "pea green" inlays changed to the "normal" looking ones, in the process. It still has stock tuners, bridge, and tailpiece. It stays in tune, exceptionally well, with the bone nut! One other observation, regarding tuning stability. It may be just "me" (although I doubt it), but ALL my guitars have what I would call a "settling down" period, after spending some time, in the case. How long, that period lasts, depends on humidity levels, more than temps, unless the temps are excessive, in either direction. These are wooden instruments, and are subject to slight fluctuations, accordingly. Hope you'll get it all sorted out, without having to sell/trade your SG "Original!" Best Wishes, and Good Luck! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 'ey man Got an '13 Sg Original Myself, and if i dont use the maestro it's decent when it comes to tuning. I can even use it as "speed Vibrato" at bends. As long movments are at a minimal. I found out that when you use the trem (at least on mine) i was pushing the bridge back an forth So I did try a Tonepro Locking bridge hoping i could do more drastic movement with a trem. Now the Bridge was more solid, using the trem know the strings went through the saddles. I uesd nut sauce in the saddles, tried to gently go over the slots with a file set. But i'v come to the conclusion i need a locking bridge with roller saddles Haven't gotten that far So after all this blabber, i would just say i do feel it became a bit more stable with a locking bridge. If you try a roller bridge i firmly believe it should be with a locking option. I actually haven't found a good option there yet Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Ah...I see. Just in case, wasn't trying to imply your guitar didn't have an issue, or that you needed to learn something from me (as if you didn't know). Sounds like perhaps, this particular guitar does have an issue somewhere, besides just the description the tech gave you. And again, it's hard for a guy (like me) to say what it is over the net, not having experienced it for myself. Can only give ideas, my friend. In my experience, the only times I have had strings that suddenly go sharp, the trem is the culprit. I hear ya, man! If the problem is the tremolo, I wonder if I'd be better served by trading it in for a standard. Or a Polara - it seems that the heel of the Guild goes out to the 17th fret. As opposed to the SG, which meets at about the 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 'ey man Got an '13 Sg Original Myself, and if i dont use the maestro it's decent when it comes to tuning. I can even use it as "speed Vibrato" at bends. As long movments are at a minimal. I found out that when you use the trem (at least on mine) i was pushing the bridge back an forth So I did try a Tonepro Locking bridge hoping i could do more drastic movement with a trem. Now the Bridge was more solid, using the trem know the strings went through the saddles. I uesd nut sauce in the saddles, tried to gently go over the slots with a file set. But i'v come to the conclusion i need a locking bridge with roller saddles Haven't gotten that far So after all this blabber, i would just say i do feel it became a bit more stable with a locking bridge. If you try a roller bridge i firmly believe it should be with a locking option. I actually haven't found a good option there yet Good luck Good idea. I'm tempted to blow a bunch of money just to see what'll happen. New tuners, bone nut, locking roller bridge. I've got an old mustang whose tuning dramatically improved after I had the bridge locked down - believe it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Good idea. I'm tempted to blow a bunch of money just to see what'll happen. New tuners, bone nut, locking roller bridge. I've got an old mustang whose tuning dramatically improved after I had the bridge locked down - believe it or not. Looked a bit more into it For myself i will try this Rollerbridge i think- Tonepro TP6R C. 50-60$ on ebay Tuners on mine feels really great actually. I think it's tonepro kluson 16:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Looked a bit more into it For myself i will try this Rollerbridge i think- Tonepro TP6R C. 50-60$ on ebay Tuners on mine feels really great actually. I think it's tonepro kluson 16:1 Ah yes I see that. Very interesting. Mine still has the Gibson deluxe tuners. They seem medium ok. Sometimes I turn them and nothing happens. Hrmmm. Can't tell if it's just bad ratio or if the strings are in fact catching in the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Ah yes I see that. Very interesting. Mine still has the Gibson deluxe tuners. They seem medium ok. Sometimes I turn them and nothing happens. Hrmmm. Can't tell if it's just bad ratio or if the strings are in fact catching in the nut. Mine is the original one. It comes with Tonepro Kluson 16:1-specs And they do feel really nice, but you can have got some bad one's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I once had a Gibson SG with severe tuning stability problems. Something was wrong with the neck. I got a replacement, and this one is as stable as all the others. My Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs are very stable, too, despite of very thin necks and Lyra vibrato which of course I don't use. For these purposes I have some Floyd Rose guitars. Here's the topic about my problem child: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/114066-update-on-neck-curving-back-and-forth/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Good idea. I'm tempted to blow a bunch of money just to see what'll happen. New tuners, bone nut, locking roller bridge. I've got an old mustang whose tuning dramatically improved after I had the bridge locked down - believe it or not. I believe the Mustang story in an instant. Be very careful about changing anything. It could void warranty if there's a serious problem like the one of my first SG Supra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino_j Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I agree with Charlie Brown about the 'settling in' period all new guitars go through, but assuming you're past that, Sellum brought up a good point about the saddles. After reading your original post, I would be inclined to blame the Maestro more than the other components. You mentioned graphite in the nut slots, have you tried lubricating the saddle slots too? Not meaning to be sarcastic here but..if you never use the Maestro, like you said, I think I'd be inclined to sell it to someone who wants a Maestro equipped SG and is willing to work through the process to make it a stable guitar. Here's what one person went through: http://www.thegearpa...aestro.1261724/ Bottom line, I don't think I'd spend a lot trying to get this guitar stable if I don't intend to use the Maestro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I agree with Charlie Brown about the 'settling in' period all new guitars go through, but assuming you're past that, Sellum brought up a good point about the saddles. After reading your original post, I would be inclined to blame the Maestro more than the other components. You mentioned graphite in the nut slots, have you tried lubricating the saddle slots too? Not meaning to be sarcastic here but..if you never use the Maestro, like you said, I think I'd be inclined to sell it to someone who wants a Maestro equipped SG and is willing to work through the process to make it a stable guitar. Here's what one person went through: http://www.thegearpa...aestro.1261724/ Bottom line, I don't think I'd spend a lot trying to get this guitar stable if I don't intend to use the Maestro. True true. In an ideal world, I would use the maestro. I'm avoiding it now to try and pin down the root of the gtrs instability. But yes, it is tempting to trade the gtr out for an sg standard, polara, or even a les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I once had a Gibson SG with severe tuning stability problems. Something was wrong with the neck. I got a replacement, and this one is as stable as all the others. My Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs are very stable, too, despite of very thin necks and Lyra vibrato which of course I don't use. For these purposes I have some Floyd Rose guitars. Here's the topic about my problem child: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/114066-update-on-neck-curving-back-and-forth/ YIKES! Sounds like quite a headache! Luckily, my sg isn't too bad. When it goes, it's never more than a few cents off. It's just unpredictable. Sometimes sharp, sometimes flat. I've been keeping a log of its changes to see if there's a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Small fluctuations, are normal. And, usually humidity related, more than temps (baring wild fluctuations). Of all my guitars, my Rickenbacker's are the most stable, tuning wise. The 2 12-strings do need a tweak, now and then, and one of them, that I use for "gigs," is cased for weeks, sometimes months (we don't get to play much, around here, anymore), and it's never off much at all, even that far between usage. The other one, I have out, all the time, ant it too is very stable. All my other guitars, usually go sharp, over a period of time, in the case. But, I just tune them up, sometimes several times, after a longer case time, and they eventually "settle down," and stay in tune quite well. That "settling down" time, doesn't seem to be Brand, model, or materials used exclusive at all. They all do it, to varying degrees. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Back to SG "tuning" problems...I had a VERY ODD, experience, last evening at a rehearsal/Jam... My otherwise pretty stable, Stop bar, SG was having a "fit," tuning wise. At one point, the low E string went sharp, in pitch, about a full step! I didn't touch it, it just decided to re-tune itself, to F! LOL! And, several other strings were misbehaving! I have NO idea, why...as it's usually very stable (for a long neck SG, anyway). And, another odd thing that happened, was my bone nut, started binding/pinging 2 of the stings (it's NEVER done that, before). So, when I arrived home, after the jam. I took it out of the case, sanded (sand paper and emery board) the sides of the nut slots, added some #2 pencil lead, and all seems "just fine," now! But, WHY...all of a sudden, did ANY of this happen??? WEIRD!! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Dashing around the country with guitars will always call for acclimatisation and thus for retuning several times. I guess that's why they promote MinE-Tune and G-Force for the gigging musician. This might be due to woods and strings as well. Lots of venues are less comfy for a guitar than a living room environment - just like for us players. Anyway, as long as the stability of my guitars and basses is fine at home, or just slight detuning occurs due to the impact of seasonal changes to the air inside, I don't have a reason to blame it on instruments, strings, or whatever else. With the exception of my former SG Supra which had an unstable neck, no instrument called for adjustment or changes of setup in years. Perhaps tiny corrections of intonation after restringing, mostly of wound strings, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebhaugen Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Back to SG "tuning" problems...I had a VERY ODD, experience, last evening at a rehearsal/Jam... My otherwise pretty stable, Stop bar, SG was having a "fit," tuning wise. At one point, the low E string went sharp, in pitch, about a full step! I didn't touch it, it just decided to re-tune itself, to F! LOL! And, several other strings were misbehaving! I have NO idea, why...as it's usually very stable (for a long neck SG, anyway). And, another odd thing that happened, was my bone nut, started binding/pinging 2 of the stings (it's NEVER done that, before). So, when I arrived home, after the jam. I took it out of the case, sanded (sand paper and emery board) the sides of the nut slots, added some #2 pencil lead, and all seems "just fine," now! But, WHY...all of a sudden, did ANY of this happen??? WEIRD!! CB WEIRD! I live in NC, and have noticed all my guitars getting fussy as the season changes. But retuning itself to F - that's intense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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