Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

CustomBuckers vs P90 - identical tone ?


JGW

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

New here, Just acquired a new LP CS8 - BB color - with Alnico III Custom Buckers. I like the guitar and the tone, and body vibrated nicely, however, on coming home with it, I found that it it pretty identical in tone to my 2010 CS P90 Goldtop VOS '56 reissue. Only difference I seem to notice is the CS8 seems to have a little bit more sustain, and slightly more volume, so it distorts just a little bit quicker. However, nothing that a little volume raise on the P90 '56 couldn't achieve. Same clear highs and warm lows. Clearly my taste is consistent, however I was planning to look for a nice Humbucker to go with my P90 and Fender, and have 3 distinctive different tones/options.

Is this normal, what options do I have, maybe shop will let me trade it for a different CS ? however , I have the impression that all LP CS 8 & 9 have same Alnico III's ?

Anyone have similar experience ?

 

regards

JGW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello JGW, and welcome here.

 

First, considering the guitars are quite similar, they might create similar tones. When about inductance and capacitance including cable, P90s and "classic" humbuckers are not that far apart. The very differences are width and structure of the magnetic fields. The results are more bass and less treble from the humbucker. Depending on the strings used, attack, and tone control settings, these differences can be very subtle. Bright sounding strings plucked with picks along with raised treble and bass controls will produce more distinctive tones. Pure nickel strings and fingerpicking may deliver very similar outputs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi All,

 

New here, Just acquired a new LP CS8 - BB color - with Alnico III Custom Buckers. I like the guitar and the tone, and body vibrated nicely, however, on coming home with it, I found that it it pretty identical in tone to my 2010 CS P90 Goldtop VOS '56 reissue. Only difference I seem to notice is the CS8 seems to have a little bit more sustain, and slightly more volume, so it distorts just a little bit quicker. However, nothing that a little volume raise on the P90 '56 couldn't achieve. Same clear highs and warm lows. Clearly my taste is consistent, however I was planning to look for a nice Humbucker to go with my P90 and Fender, and have 3 distinctive different tones/options.

Is this normal, what options do I have, maybe shop will let me trade it for a different CS ? however , I have the impression that all LP CS 8 & 9 have same Alnico III's ?

Anyone have similar experience ?

 

regards

JGW

 

Hi, JGW, and welcome to the forums.

 

It's possible that you're experiencing this sort of thing for multiple reasons.

 

First, the pickups; a P90 in your R6 might have a coild winding of about 10 000 turns. The CustomBucker will have 2 coils of around 5 000; one under, and one above this. So the output will be quite similar in level. Plus, chances are; most of the CustomBuckers are Al3 magnets, so no difference there. I don't know what magnets the P90 would have.

 

If they're all Al3, they're going to have the same sorts of magnetic field about them, too, which will result in some further similarities in tone. Al3 are the weakest AlNiCo magnets in the range (the order is Al3, Al2, Al4, Al5, Al8), and as such tend to produce a nice warm, sustained tone. Al2 and Al5 magnets are quite common with more modern pickups, as well as some vintage Stratocaster and Telecaster pickups. These produce a bit more of the 'spank' in the tone; in a P90 these would make a crunchy sounding pickup (I believe - correct me if I'm wrong, somebody) due to the amount of extra coil wire over a Strat' pickup.

 

So my suggestion would be, don't return any guitar, especially if you're happy with how it plays, the neck, the weight, etc.

 

First of all you could look to change things like the output by fine-tuning the pickups; adjust the polepieces for balance across the strings, and pickup height for output. Simple moves like this will make big differences.

 

If you have to change anything in terms of parts - maybe do some experimenting with the pickups if you're confident; this sort of thing isn't difficult and is completely reversible. Maybe try finding some Al5 or Al2 magnets for a P90 and swap them out (or get a luthier or local pickup maker to do it if you're not confident), or experiment a bit more; maybe just change the bridge magnets?

 

Lots of possibilities when you go down this road msp_biggrin.gif hope this helps.

 

EDIT: damn Cap you beat me to it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, not really. You added lots of in-deep knowledge I didn't have before. [blush]

 

It's only because I've been messing around with this stuff recently, and then reading up on a lot of it.

 

Managed to get a Gibson '57 Classic + pickup from eBay quite cheap; someone had bought it as part of a 2015 or something, and then ripped all the innards out, putting their own pickups and control harness in. So it was a new pickup, essentially. I ordered an AlNiCo IV humbucker magnet, and swapped them in the pickup. Doesn't take a lot of work; not as much as I was expecting. I don't know why IV; I just like that number the best out of them all I guess. Plus I read that a lot of original PAF's had Al4 magnets.

 

I've yet to put it into a guitar; it's a Quick-Connect, so would go in my '14 Studio without too much hassle at all. I'm compiling a video, which I'm going to use to start a YouTube channel of guitar-based stuff (mods, reviews, videos on my build, etc).

 

I am considering getting a Quick-Connect BurstBucker off of someone like The Stratosphere on eBay, and swap out the Al5 for an Al3. Just some little projects to try msp_biggrin.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, JGW, and welcome to the forums.

 

It's possible that you're experiencing this sort of thing for multiple reasons.

 

First, the pickups; a P90 in your R6 might have a coild winding of about 10 000 turns. The CustomBucker will have 2 coils of around 5 000; one under, and one above this. So the output will be quite similar in level. Plus, chances are; most of the CustomBuckers are Al3 magnets, so no difference there. I don't know what magnets the P90 would have.

 

If they're all Al3, they're going to have the same sorts of magnetic field about them, too, which will result in some further similarities in tone. Al3 are the weakest AlNiCo magnets in the range (the order is Al3, Al2, Al4, Al5, Al8), and as such tend to produce a nice warm, sustained tone. Al2 and Al5 magnets are quite common with more modern pickups, as well as some vintage Stratocaster and Telecaster pickups. These produce a bit more of the 'spank' in the tone; in a P90 these would make a crunchy sounding pickup (I believe - correct me if I'm wrong, somebody) due to the amount of extra coil wire over a Strat' pickup.

 

So my suggestion would be, don't return any guitar, especially if you're happy with how it plays, the neck, the weight, etc.

 

First of all you could look to change things like the output by fine-tuning the pickups; adjust the polepieces for balance across the strings, and pickup height for output. Simple moves like this will make big differences.

 

If you have to change anything in terms of parts - maybe do some experimenting with the pickups if you're confident; this sort of thing isn't difficult and is completely reversible. Maybe try finding some Al5 or Al2 magnets for a P90 and swap them out (or get a luthier or local pickup maker to do it if you're not confident), or experiment a bit more; maybe just change the bridge magnets?

 

Lots of possibilities when you go down this road msp_biggrin.gif hope this helps.

 

EDIT: damn Cap you beat me to it!

 

 

Great,

Thanks for the advice - so if my CS8 has CustomBuckers Alnico III, what would be the effect of putting something else in ? Are these the most authentic , as both the CS8 and CS9 have these ? What is the difference with lets say BurstBuckers ?

I like the warmt and still clarity of these CustomBuckers, but would like a bit more punchy difference with my P90's, or i might as well but a little Booster pedal on my P90 - a lot cheaper and more practical (but not so nice looking of course ;-) )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great,

Thanks for the advice - so if my CS8 has CustomBuckers Alnico III, what would be the effect of putting something else in ? Are these the most authentic , as both the CS8 and CS9 have these ? What is the difference with lets say BurstBuckers ?

I like the warmt and still clarity of these CustomBuckers, but would like a bit more punchy difference with my P90's, or i might as well but a little Booster pedal on my P90 - a lot cheaper and more practical (but not so nice looking of course ;-) )

 

Changing to something like an Al2 or Al5 will give you a bit more snap and punch in the tone, but you might sacrifice some of the mids as a trade-off. An Al4 is a good mid-ground, with slight sacrifices to the mids, but you will get something more on the punch-side of things.

 

If you're happy with the CustomBuckers; I'd leave them as they are. Maybe have a look into fine tuning them by adjusting things like the polepieces (as mentioned above - this will help balance the output for the individual strings) and adjusting the pickup height; this might help get some more punch and output.

 

I'd suggest, if anything needs to be adjusted; adjust the P90's.

 

But explore some other options; maybe take the R6 down to your local shop (that does pedals) explain what you're after, try some pedals to see if anything fits your fancy, and see if that proves any good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Changing to something like an Al2 or Al5 will give you a bit more snap and punch in the tone, but you might sacrifice some of the mids as a trade-off. An Al4 is a good mid-ground, with slight sacrifices to the mids, but you will get something more on the punch-side of things.

 

If you're happy with the CustomBuckers; I'd leave them as they are. Maybe have a look into fine tuning them by adjusting things like the polepieces (as mentioned above - this will help balance the output for the individual strings) and adjusting the pickup height; this might help get some more punch and output.

 

I'd suggest, if anything needs to be adjusted; adjust the P90's.

 

But explore some other options; maybe take the R6 down to your local shop (that does pedals) explain what you're after, try some pedals to see if anything fits your fancy, and see if that proves any good.

 

Take the R6-P90 to local shop ? or did you mean the R8 ? Found similar idea on YouTube (where they use a overdrive/pre-amp pedal to obtain the Woman Tone / Howl).

 

So based upon your suggestion, done some more tests - Ran Both R6-P90 and R8-CustBucker (CB), (Treble/Bridge PU, Vol10, Tone 0) through Boss LS2 Lineselector, Mad Prof Sweet Honey into Fender Blues Deluxe Ch 1 (high sensitive), Volume 3 and compared both. (Tones were bit deafening though)

 

Can get the R6-P90

to "howl/cry/feedback" a bit on most of the D string positions, short sustain/FB ob D5 and D12.

G9 loads of FB, whereas on

B7 & B15, somewhat less on B12,

lots on E5, bit less on E7

 

on the R8-CustBuckers :

howls/infinite on D9, D12, D15 lots D5 ; less D7

howls/infinite on G7, G9 lots G ; less G5, G12

howls/infinite on B5, B9, B12 lots B15 ; less B7

howls/infinite on E5, E7 loads E12 ; less E9. E15

 

So although both sound very similar on tone range warmth and clarity (certainly on lower volumes), there is a somewhat higher output on the CustomBuckers (so it should be, just expected bigger difference), but seems on same amp and pedal settings, the R8-CB I can get to howl / feedback pretty much indefinite on several neck positions, where P90 sustains less long. I ran these tests on pretty much same playing position towards amp speaker, as turning guitars more/less into the sound filed also made PU's react differently.

 

So, how does this compare to other LP's ? Can good LP's obtain the infinite feedback/ howl on every position ? Can I get more howl/Woman Tone out of BustBuckers ? or is it more to do with body/wood and resonance.

 

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take the R6-P90 to local shop ? or did you mean the R8 ? Found similar idea on YouTube (where they use a overdrive/pre-amp pedal to obtain the Woman Tone / Howl).

 

So based upon your suggestion, done some more tests - Ran Both R6-P90 and R8-CustBucker (CB), (Treble/Bridge PU, Vol10, Tone 0) through Boss LS2 Lineselector, Mad Prof Sweet Honey into Fender Blues Deluxe Ch 1 (high sensitive), Volume 3 and compared both. (Tones were bit deafening though)

 

Can get the R6-P90

to "howl/cry/feedback" a bit on most of the D string positions, short sustain/FB ob D5 and D12.

G9 loads of FB, whereas on

B7 & B15, somewhat less on B12,

lots on E5, bit less on E7

 

on the R8-CustBuckers :

howls/infinite on D9, D12, D15 lots D5 ; less D7

howls/infinite on G7, G9 lots G ; less G5, G12

howls/infinite on B5, B9, B12 lots B15 ; less B7

howls/infinite on E5, E7 loads E12 ; less E9. E15

 

So although both sound very similar on tone range warmth and clarity (certainly on lower volumes), there is a somewhat higher output on the CustomBuckers (so it should be, just expected bigger difference), but seems on same amp and pedal settings, the R8-CB I can get to howl / feedback pretty much indefinite on several neck positions, where P90 sustains less long. I ran these tests on pretty much same playing position towards amp speaker, as turning guitars more/less into the sound filed also made PU's react differently.

 

So, how does this compare to other LP's ? Can good LP's obtain the infinite feedback/ howl on every position ? Can I get more howl/Woman Tone out of BustBuckers ? or is it more to do with body/wood and resonance.

 

thanks

 

Yeah I'd say get the R6 down to the shop; try out some pedals and see if you can achieve what you want out of it.

 

Where are you based, out of interest?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...