xxx Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 [url=""]My link[/url] So this is the pickguard that was on my J-45. The top layer just peeled off revealing a thin clear material below. Odd huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's a good photo of something one really don't want to see. Kinda imitation of imitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Pretty sure it's not meant to be taken literally ... "pick guard". Many manufacturers (Gibson, Martin, etc) use, or have used, pixelated guards: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Does anyone here know when Gibson stopped using conventional celluloid guards, as opposed to other materials? For example, there the thicker guards used in the late 1960's celluloid, or some other plastic material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 In the early 1960s, Gibson started using styrene pickguards made with injection molding machines which formed plastic "pellets" into pretty much any shape you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So this is the pickguard that was on my J-45. The top layer just peeled off revealing a thin clear material below. Unbelievable, really disappointed in Gibson. And what does this save them? A couple bucks on a $2000 guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Don't know what Montana's rational is for the current material, but there doesn't seem to be much of an upside. This peeling to reveal a clear material, when added to the bulbous appearance & potential for tone dampening, makes it a real head scratcher as to why they'd want to use it. If it's just a matter of cost, bump the prices up by a few bucks & put something on there that's worthy of the guitars they're placed on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 This guard looks nothing like the ones on the new 2016 J45 Standard. OP - can you confirm if this the flubber guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafy31 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It is strange, i thought pickguards were either : - 2 pieces, with a transparent thick protection, plus the painted pickguard below (hummingbirds, dove, SJ200... for example) - 1 piece, engraved/painted for the vintage versions ? Yours seems different, or it looks like the thick white protection has been peeled off. Anyway, if you bought it new (original owner), send pictures to Gibson support with your phone by mail and they will probably contact you for a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 This guard looks nothing like the ones on the new 2016 J45 Standard. OP - can you confirm if this the flubber guard? The test for the flubber guard is really pretty simple. Does it feel sticky when you rub your finger across it? If it does it's flubber. Can you push your fingernail into it and leave a dent that will come out with a little time? It's flubber. Flubber is typically much thicker than celluloid and has very rounded edges. The flubber does the job it's just not the best material. A Hummingbird celluloid engraved pickguard weighs .5 ounces. The flubber guard weighs in at a very rubbery 1.6 ounces. I haven't weighed the J-45 guards but it might be time to do this if Gibson is using flubber on the J-45. If your guitar sounds good with a flubber guard then imagine what it would sound like with a celluloid guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 My teardrop pickguard for my J-50 is a printed thing -- you can see the dots when you examine it closely with a lens. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafy31 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 If your guitar sounds good with a flubber guard then imagine what it would sound like with a celluloid guard. This has yet to be proven to my (poor) knowledge? Not sure that it makes any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 In the early 1960s, Gibson started using styrene pickguards made with injection molding machines which formed plastic "pellets" into pretty much any shape you wanted. Gibson Montana used celluloid pickguards from the beginning. They did use the "styrene" material when they discovered the original molds for the Hummingbird and the J-200. This molding process was much more expensive than the traditional celluloid so it was only done on limited editions of the J-200 and Hummingbird in the middle 90's. The 60's J-200 was one of the short runs of 24 units. The pickguard is amazing. It is completely clear/see thru with an slightly red color. The Limited eddition Hummingbirds used an amber cast see thru styrene. The Hummingbird cast guard weighed in at a whopping 1.8 ounces but it was a stiff material that would vibrate with the top and not deaden the sound as much as one would imagine. Both guards were hand engraved and painted. The first flubber started showing up about 6 years ago. They tried it on the Songwriter and Hummingbird and when no one objected they took it as a signal to use it on more guitars. Just so you know Ren was still working for Gibson at the time of the switch. He had objections but the cost difference was significant. We're talking well over a hundred bucks a guard for the Hummingbird and the same for the J-200. If you did try to buy a hand engraved Hummingbird pickguard from Gibson in the 90's they would set you back $350.00. The flubber costs Gibson pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxx Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. This is truly one of the cheapest pick guards I have ever seen. Over the years I have had the pleasure of owning many fine guitars including J-100s, J-150s, J-200s, Nick Lucas" etc., and have never seen such a poor attempt at saving a buck in production. There is no rubbery feel to this guard, it is quite simply a very sharply cut ( No bevel ) piece of clear plexiglass material covered with a very thin film that has a tortoise shell pattern on it. I did call customer service and emailed them my receipt and a photo of the guard. The young woman who fielded my call was pleasant but seemed unconcerned, and said that she would get back to me by the end of the day, so I will keep you all updated. By the way, I do LOVE this guitar! It sounds and plays like a great J-45 should, its just seems a shame that after paying the price for a new J-45, I have to order and install an after market pickguard, which I will do if Gibson offers to send me another that is made to the same low standard. I know, wah, wah, wah.....All over a pick guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafy31 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Actually, Styrene is kind of plastic... Either way, the prices do not seem to come from the material but more from the work on it (engraved, hand painted etc) ? I tend to think Gibsons uses flubber guards because they have less problems with it : no risk of top cracks, paint does not wear off, etc... and still uses engraved celluloïd for vintage design, more than it has an impact on the sound... but that's just me. Actually i even doubt there is a huge difference in price for crafting them. Would have been nice to get the truth from Gibson about it! @xxx, Gibson will probably propose to send it back and they'll replace it for you... It will probably be better than replacing it yourself (you can do that later) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 [url=""]My link[/url] So this is the pickguard that was on my J-45. The top layer just peeled off revealing a thin clear material below. Odd huh? I didnt realise it had come to that.The best thing you did was take it off. So many nice alternatives out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin 1940D28 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 A little water color and a cheap brush will make it "as new". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 When folks began to realize Martin was using computer generated pixelated guards a while back sentiment gradually built up to the point where Martin stopped using the printed guards. Took a while though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxx Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didn't receive a call back today as promised by customer service ( Big Surprise ) But I really don't want to send it anywhere to have a pick guard installed, I've done them before, super easy. But I really thought that maybe I would just leave it off, I kinda like that look. Unfortunately they must have applied the guard while the lacquer was still damp, as it left a pretty good ridge all around the outline of the guard, and some very uneven areas under where the guard had been. So I just ordered a nice looking guard from a Luthiers supply online ( lmii.com ) it should be here in the next few days, I will post a pic when I install it. Thanks again for all your help and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 When folks began to realize Martin was using computer generated pixelated guards a while back sentiment gradually built up to the point where Martin stopped using the printed guards. Took a while though. My Martin HD-28V from '05 had a raster-guard and I first saw it one day it was caught in sharp and direct sun. This made the colours purple and orange and pulled the whole guitar down toward kitsch. The other HD-28V from 2000 has a molded ditto and no probs at all. The first is gone now - for other reasons though. Had I kept it, the guard would have been exchanged with a Greven version. But I really thought that maybe I would just leave it off, I kinda like that look. Slope 45's actually look very good without guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 We're talking well over a hundred bucks a guard for the Hummingbird and the same for the J-200. Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didn't receive a call back today as promised by customer service ( Big Surprise ) But I really don't want to send it anywhere to have a pick guard installed, I've done them before, super easy. But I really thought that maybe I would just leave it off, I kinda like that look. Unfortunately they must have applied the guard while the lacquer was still damp, as it left a pretty good ridge all around the outline of the guard, and some very uneven areas under where the guard had been. So I just ordered a nice looking guard from a Luthiers supply online ( lmii.com ) it should be here in the next few days, I will post a pic when I install it. Thanks again for all your help and support. It would take a good repair guy 15 minutes to level sand the area in question and buff it to a shine. You would never be able to see any damage at all. I can't tell you how forgiving and easy to work with Nitro is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Several years ago, several folks were calling for major changes to the engraved 'bird & flower' guards on the Hummingbird and J200s. because, for some - the paint would wear off. That may have been what has led us to this. As they say - watch out what you wish for. Or, as Em7 more directly stated -' this is not a picture anyone here wants to see'. It appears as if a simulated tortoise pattern is applied to a piece of Scotch Tape and stuck on a piece of plastic. No bevel, of course - because that would make it look worse. First Act guitars apply the same technique - except they stick the tape to the guitar face itself and don't bother with the illusion of an actual pick guard. Flamenco guitars have the same concept - in a completely clear, larger slightly thicker and more tastefully carried out item, which they call (in Spanish) a thumper, or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Several years ago, several folks were calling for major changes to the engraved 'bird & flower' guards on the Hummingbird and J200s. because, for some - the paint would wear off. That may have been what has led us to this. As they say - watch out what you wish for. Or, as Em7 more directly stated -' this is not a picture anyone here wants to see'. It appears as if a simulated tortoise pattern is applied to a piece of Scotch Tape and stuck on a piece of plastic. No bevel, of course - because that would make it look worse. First Act guitars apply the same technique - except they stick the tape to the guitar face itself and don't bother with the illusion of an actual pick guard. Flamenco guitars have the same concept - in a completely clear, larger slightly thicker and more tastefully carried out item, which they call (in Spanish) a thumper, or something to that effect. Golpeador. A "golpe" is a blow with the hand or fist. "Darle un golpe" is to hit someone (or with slight modification, something rather than someone).Using the guitar as a percussive instrument is a big part of flamenco, and I guess the golpeador keeps you from beating the heck out of the top of your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 If your guitar sounds good with a flubber guard then imagine what it would sound like with a celluloid guard. I am imagining, and I imagine it would sound pretty much identical. :P The first flubber started showing up about 6 years ago. They tried it on the Songwriter and Hummingbird and when no one objected they took it as a signal to use it on more guitars. Just so you know Ren was still working for Gibson at the time of the switch. He had objections but the cost difference was significant. We're talking well over a hundred bucks a guard for the Hummingbird and the same for the J-200. If you did try to buy a hand engraved Hummingbird pickguard from Gibson in the 90's they would set you back $350.00. The flubber costs Gibson pennies. My Hummingbird Vintage has the engraved guard. How come those are so much more expensive? Where does the cost come in? It seems like it should all be doable by machine. Or is the painting actually done by hand? Kind of a shame considering how easily the paint comes off and sort of makes me wish I had the flubber guard instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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