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NGD! and a pcb question


gania13

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hello, just signed up to this forum after i bought my first gibson les paul, a 2009 standard in ebony finish.

i was wondering, is there any difference in sound between les pauls with regular pots and wiring, and the one's that come with the pcb's like mine?

btw here are some pics

20151118_190821.jpg

20151118_185746.jpg

20151122_093728.jpg

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hello, just signed up to this forum after i bought my first gibson les paul, a 2009 standard in ebony finish.

i was wondering, is there any difference in sound between les pauls with regular pots and wiring, and the one's that come with the pcb's like mine?

 

 

 

Hi Gania,

 

Where LPs are concerned ebony is the 1st finish I think of, and it suits LPs more than any other guitar too.

 

You got a nice looking STD. Case looks brand new.

Welcome to the forums

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yes & no.

 

if you were to wire your guitar with the exact same posts and caps, and use good wire, and properly solder, no. it will sound the same, because it is the same.

if you use different components, then it will definitely sound different. anyone tells you they can hear a difference is deluded.

i meant more in a way of "gibson's standard wiring in modern guitars vs. the pcb" not implying that they both have to have the same pots or caps. just what gibson puts in the guitars.

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Hi Gania,

 

Where LPs are concerned ebony is the 1st finish I think of, and it suits LPs more than any other guitar too.

 

You got a nice looking STD. Case looks brand new.

Welcome to the forums

thanks! when i saw the ad the color was looking very cool and different from the very popular sunbursts, although my favourite finish is the tobacco burst, the price on this guitar was so good that i just had to have it!

only need to swap the knobs back to original gold top hats.

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i meant more in a way of "gibson's standard wiring in modern guitars vs. the pcb" not implying that they both have to have the same pots or caps. just what gibson puts in the guitars.

 

 

the 2015 lp standard is pcb mounted controls. so is the classic, and all the studios and lower lps. near as i can tell from the website, evevery lp under $5 grand. so the pcb IS their standard wiring on modern guitars.

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yes & no.

 

if you were to wire your guitar with the exact same posts and caps, and use good wire, and properly solder, no. it will sound the same, because it is the same.

if you use different components, then it will definitely sound different. anyone tells you they can hear a difference is deluded.

I'm not so sure about that.

 

I can tell you from experience, that the traditional braided coax does sound very different than the thin "phone wire" Gibson often uses. I know this because I tried it to SEE if there was going to be a different or better sound.

 

I don't know if the PCB's sound different (better or worse), but the only way to know is to compare to another construction type. I haven't done it, so I can't say.

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I'm not so sure about that.

 

I can tell you from experience, that the traditional braided coax does sound very different than the thin "phone wire" Gibson often uses. I know this because I tried it to SEE if there was going to be a different or better sound.

 

I don't know if the PCB's sound different (better or worse), but the only way to know is to compare to another construction type. I haven't done it, so I can't say.

 

 

in a super simplified sense, electricity is the passage of free electrons from one atom to another. for what you're saying to be true, your guitar would have to be unrestricted by the physical laws that govern our entire universe. i mean, seriously. electricity does not work different in guitars than in other applications. if you can understand how it works, you'll realize how silly it sounds every time someone tries to talk that nonsense. it's all in your head dude. all you need to do is read a 5th grade science book. it amazes me how many people refuse to believe what science has proven all because they bought into a bunch of hype they read on a website intended to sell them something.

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in a super simplified sense, electricity is the passage of free electrons from one atom to another. for what you're saying to be true, your guitar would have to be unrestricted by the physical laws that govern our entire universe. i mean, seriously. electricity does not work different in guitars than in other applications. if you can understand how it works, you'll realize how silly it sounds every time someone tries to talk that nonsense. it's all in your head dude. all you need to do is read a 5th grade science book. it amazes me how many people refuse to believe what science has proven all because they bought into a bunch of hype they read on a website intended to sell them something.

Quite hypocritical your response is.

 

Different wire can sound different because it is different. Wire and cable has electrical properties just like any other electrical component. So when you change size and shape of the wire, or it's materials, and when you change the dielectric, you will change the electrical properties. That's all "scientific".

 

If you read what I have written, you would understand 1) I ain't selling something 2) I stated clearly my experience, as opposed to something I read on the web.

 

If we are to respect the original poster's question, he is asking if there is a difference in sound between the PCB and traditional wiring.

 

You can either use 5th grade science level to discount it, or open your mind to the possibility they may sound differently, and use the experience to learn more science.

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The traditional braided wire with a textile isolation of the core affects tone significantly. Both capacitance and its dependence on humidity are considerably large. Given a Les Paul using it for all its internal wiring, at a humidity of about 50% it has about the same capacitance as the average 6m or 20ft guitar cable at any given condition when using one pickup only, so you effectively load your pickup down with two guitar cables. Using both pickups will increase the capacitive load to that of three guitar cables in sum.

 

Compared to any reasonable electrical standards, braided wire is inferior in audio applications, let alone other sorts of wiring. I have to say it just because about half of my Gibsons use it, not despite of that. Sadly replacing the stock pickup wire is not that simple or cheap. This is no rocket science, just results from listening and evaluating it from a 2nd grade science point of view so to say which is sufficient when looking at inductances and capacitances.

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The traditional braided wire with a textile isolation of the core affects tone significantly. Both capacitance and its dependence on humidity are considerably large. Given a Les Paul using it for all its internal wiring, at a humidity of about 50% it has about the same capacitance as the average 6m or 20ft guitar cable at any given condition when using one pickup only, so you effectively load your pickup down with two guitar cables. Using both pickups will increase the capacitive load to that of three guitar cables in sum.

 

Compared to any reasonable electrical standards, braided wire is inferior in audio applications, let alone other sorts of wiring. I have to say it just because about half of my Gibsons use it, not despite of that. Sadly replacing the stock pickup wire is not that simple or cheap. This is no rocket science, just results from listening and evaluating it from a 2nd grade science point of view so to say which is sufficient when looking at inductances and capacitances.

Interesting I have never considered the humidity aspect. But I think you are right.

 

Cotton, or nylon, is a TERRIBLE dielectric for audio applications to start with, and reflects a lot of magnetism. Not to mention the shield in such close proximity ALL THE WAY the whole length. Add moisture, and sheesh.

 

However, it's my view that what we think is the classic Gibson sound, or what we like, this wire is just the thing.

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funny, the circuits on the board are completely exposed. that would strongly suggest the oem feels there is no discernible difference. go figure eh? you can call it opinion here on this forum all you want to but if gibby says there isn't one, how you gonna argue with them? like i said before. all things being equal there will be zero difference because everything is the same. one day if you begin to understand how electricity works, you'll feel really silly knowing you insisted on such a ridiculous idea in the face of so much easily obtainable evidence

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I have one LP with the board and it's been giving me intermittent issues. First chance I get I'm ripping it out and returning it to the old style. The boards are cheap crap and faults can be difficult to track. (mine probably has a cracked trace or solder that's reacting to temperature change).

 

They make it easier and quicker to put a guitar together but they're just not fit for the purpose they're being used for.

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hello, just signed up to this forum after i bought my first gibson les paul, a 2009 standard in ebony finish.

i was wondering, is there any difference in sound between les pauls with regular pots and wiring, and the one's that come with the pcb's like mine?

btw here are some pics

20151118_190821.jpg

20151118_185746.jpg

20151122_093728.jpg

I have never played a Gibson with a PCB, so I cannot state whether there is any difference in tone. I believe the reasoning behind the PCB was for the quick-connect pickup connections, right? I guess it's all up to personal preference, if you are happy with the way your guitar sounds, press on. If not, then maybe you can look into some new pots/caps, a rewiring kit, new pickups, or all of the above. I'm not sure if you can remove the quick-connect 'plugs' and solder the current pickups in with a new set of pots, but I would be willing to bet there are a few folks on this forum that would know.

Either way, welcome to the forum, lots of knowledge and experience with all things Les Paul (and apparently science) to be found here.

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the board in my les paul is getting yanked after christmas because one of the pots is making noise. i tried switch cleaner, but it didn't work as i had hoped. i know you can get the pots that will solder into the board, but my weak soldering skills won't support doing that kind of work. i'll re wire it using actual wire. IF i use the same pots and caps and pick ups and routing, i expect it to sound exactly the same. if it doesn't, i will come in here and admit i was wrong. although i may end up replacing the bridge pup with an evh frankenstein. if i do, that will kind of kill that idea, but i thought i'd put it out there anyway, in the interest of being more objective

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