Manfred33 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This sucker is for sale on Craigslist by me, just curious what model it is. It is listed as a 1975 Epiphone Gibson model guitar, but I think it looks like a Sheraton. Is $550 a good deal for this thing? This is a Japanese made model right? I thought that the ones made in Japan were pretty good at that time. I doubt it is a Kalamazoo made model.... Thanks for the info.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I don't know where you got 1975, but it's later than that. There are better experts on here that could mail it closer than me, nut I want to say maybe mid 80's to early mid 90's would be closer to the year. Also, this is made in neither Japan or the USA, but Korea. In particular, by the Samick company. The bridge tells the story from here. While it might seem less desireable being made in Korea than Japan, these are sought after. It's true that IF it was Japanese, it would be more "revered", about the time these were made Japan made both VERY good instruments and also pretty fair instruments. And when they made these, they were not making this model in Japan. The Samick/Korea ones have a bit of a following, being that production of these has changed to China, and gone back and forth a bit. So being what it is should be not bad news, but kinda good. 550 seems kinda high, but then, I think it can be sold for that. Not everyone will "overpay" for one of these, but some who want these particular ones I think do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromnabulax Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Just to be accurate, It is a Sheraton II. The original Sheraton had a frequentsator tailpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffery Smith Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I can't make out the headstock on this guy's photo. This is supposed to be the headstock of a 1975 Sheraton: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I vote Sheraton II and that looks like the same headstock to me. Split block inlays - BiNgO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I don't know where you got 1975, but it's later than that. There are better experts on here that could mail it closer than me, nut I want to say maybe mid 80's to early mid 90's would be closer to the year. Also, this is made in neither Japan or the USA, but Korea. In particular, by the Samick company. The bridge tells the story from here. While it might seem less desireable being made in Korea than Japan, these are sought after. It's true that IF it was Japanese, it would be more "revered", about the time these were made Japan made both VERY good instruments and also pretty fair instruments. And when they made these, they were not making this model in Japan. The Samick/Korea ones have a bit of a following, being that production of these has changed to China, and gone back and forth a bit. So being what it is should be not bad news, but kinda good. 550 seems kinda high, but then, I think it can be sold for that. Not everyone will "overpay" for one of these, but some who want these particular ones I think do. You pretty much nailed it. 1989-1994-ish Korean Sheraton II. Epiphone made JDM Sheratons (for the Japanese Domestic Market only) in Japan at the Terada factory until 1994. This is definitely not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 You pretty much nailed it. 1989-1994-ish Korean Sheraton II. Epiphone made JDM Sheratons (for the Japanese Domestic Market only) in Japan at the Terada factory until 1994. This is definitely not one of them. I'm so proud of myself! But what I didn't know, is they were making them for the Japanese market around then, making them in Japan at all during that time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 @Stein The listing on Craigslist described this as a 1975 model Epiphone Gibson, didn't get it anywhere else. That's the reason I was asking on here, because if it was a '75 Sheraton, I would think it would be a great price. I as well could not get a lot of detail from the listing photo, and I don't know that much about Sheratons, except what I found in the Epiphone wiki. To me it did look like a mid-70s Sheraton, but apparently it is a Sheraton II and I'll take everyone's word for it. The pattern on the headstock is definitely tough to make out, but it was looking right for me, but again, I defer to those with a better eye than mine. I just posted a guitar for sale myself on Craigslist today and came across this guitar. If I were to sell mine before this one is gone, I might entertain buying it...but if not, I do have a Casino which I really like, so I would not be too put out if I didn't score it. Not sure how the Sheraton II compares to a mid-2000 Casino... In any case, thanks for the replies and the info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 @Stein The listing on Craigslist described this as a 1975 model Epiphone Gibson, didn't get it anywhere else. That's the reason I was asking on here, because if it was a '75 Sheraton, I would think it would be a great price. I as well could not get a lot of detail from the listing photo, and I don't know that much about Sheratons, except what I found in the Epiphone wiki. To me it did look like a mid-70s Sheraton, but apparently it is a Sheraton II and I'll take everyone's word for it. The pattern on the headstock is definitely tough to make out, but it was looking right for me, but again, I defer to those with a better eye than mine. I just posted a guitar for sale myself on Craigslist today and came across this guitar. If I were to sell mine before this one is gone, I might entertain buying it...but if not, I do have a Casino which I really like, so I would not be too put out if I didn't score it. Not sure how the Sheraton II compares to a mid-2000 Casino... In any case, thanks for the replies and the info... I see...reading your post I thought you had listed it, and wanted to check yourself. From what I know, if it WAS a 1975 Japan one, it might not be all that great. Japan does make some of the best instruments, but in 1975...I don't really think so. In that time period, there were a lot of cheap Japanese guitars. They didn't get (earn) the reputation for good guitars until the 80's. For a reference, you can buy a NEW Sheraton II all day long for about 600 bucks. And these are quite good, compared to any period from these first Korean ones up to today. I think comparing the quality of your mid-2000 Casino to the Samick made Sheraton would be splitting hairs. What's significant is they are both very different guitars, the Casino vs the Sheraton. Full hollow vs Semi hollow, different pickup types, neck joins the body at different places with different bridge location, different weight and balance. Gonna sound, feel, and play different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 You pretty much nailed it. 1989-1994-ish Korean Sheraton II. Epiphone made JDM Sheratons (for the Japanese Domestic Market only) in Japan at the Terada factory until 1994. This is definitely not one of them. ....except what I found in the Epiphone wiki. Oh, and by the way, if you didn't know, RTH here is the man behind the Epi Wiki site. And he really, I mean REALLY knows this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Just to reiterate, Stein is right about the era of that Sheraton. The bridge tells the tale. That is what is referred to as a harmonica bridge and was on the late 1980's through early to mid 1990's Sheratons. Also, the orange label is another indicator of its era and origin. A 1970's Sheraton would have a blue, brown or tan Lincolnwood label depending on the year. A 1987-1997 Japanese Terada Sheraton would have the orange label, but have solid pearloid fret inlays all the way to the 21st fret, whereas all other Sheratons have pearloid/abalone V-block inlays extending only to the 15th fret. As far as the headstocks go, they all have pretty much the same shape after 1970, though, the Japanese Sheratons do have a different Epiphone logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 I see...reading your post I thought you had listed it, and wanted to check yourself. No problem... From what I know, if it WAS a 1975 Japan one, it might not be all that great. Japan does make some of the best instruments, but in 1975...I don't really think so. In that time period, there were a lot of cheap Japanese guitars. They didn't get (earn) the reputation for good guitars until the 80's. For a reference, you can buy a NEW Sheraton II all day long for about 600 bucks. And these are quite good, compared to any period from these first Korean ones up to today. I think comparing the quality of your mid-2000 Casino to the Samick made Sheraton would be splitting hairs. What's significant is they are both very different guitars, the Casino vs the Sheraton. Full hollow vs Semi hollow, different pickup types, neck joins the body at different places with different bridge location, different weight and balance. Gonna sound, feel, and play different. Well, from what I have read, Japan started making guitars better in the 70s and according to the Gibson-talk.com site, talking about Epi Sheratons, they say too that by about '75, Japanese guitars were improving in quality and Gibson contracted with Matsumoku to make the Sheraton over there.... I didn't actually realize that Sheratons were a semi-hollow body... Definitely a big difference then compared to the Casino, along with the other things you mentioned. I did look up prices for Sheraton IIs to see what their prices are and you are right about the prices. The poster of the listing got back to me and is going to find out more about the guitar from his father, who owns the guitar, so I'll post his response once I get it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Just to reiterate, Stein is right about the era of that Sheraton. The bridge tells the tale. That is what is referred to as a harmonica bridge and was on the late 1980's through early to mid 1990's Sheratons. Also, the orange label is another indicator of its era and origin. A 1970's Sheraton would have a blue, brown or tan Lincolnwood label depending on the year. A 1987-1997 Japanese Terada Sheraton would have the orange label, but have solid pearloid fret inlays all the way to the 21st fret, whereas all other Sheratons have pearloid/abalone V-block inlays extending only to the 15th fret. As far as the headstocks go, they all have pretty much the same shape after 1970, though, the Japanese Sheratons do have a different Epiphone logo. Thanks rth, good info!! And nice work with the Epi wiki! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 While we are on the subject, what ARE used Sheraton's going for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Just to reiterate, Stein is right about the era of that Sheraton. The bridge tells the tale. That is what is referred to as a harmonica bridge and was on the late 1980's through early to mid 1990's Sheratons. Also, the orange label is another indicator of its era and origin. A 1970's Sheraton would have a blue, brown or tan Lincolnwood label depending on the year. A 1987-1997 Japanese Terada Sheraton would have the orange label, but have solid pearloid fret inlays all the way to the 21st fret, whereas all other Sheratons have pearloid/abalone V-block inlays extending only to the 15th fret. As far as the headstocks go, they all have pretty much the same shape after 1970, though, the Japanese Sheratons do have a different Epiphone logo. Ok, so I just re-read your last post above and I'm a little confused about the fret inlays, because it sounds like you are saying that this model guitar, a late 80s to early 90s Sheraton, should have inlays all the way to the 21st fret. This one does have them only until the 15th, so I'm confused as to what year you are saying this is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Ok, so I just re-read your last post above and I'm a little confused about the fret inlays, because it sounds like you are saying that this model guitar, a late 80s to early 90s Sheraton, should have inlays all the way to the 21st fret. This one does have them only until the 15th, so I'm confused as to what year you are saying this is.... He is saying that IF this had been a Japanese like the ad states, then it would have had inlays to the 21st fret. It's definitely like he says, 1988-1994ish Samaick/Korean Sheratan II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 1987 - 1997 Japanese Sheraton = Orange label & solid pearloid inlays to the 21st fret. 1980's - 1990's Korean Sharatons = Orange label & pearloid/abolane v-block inlays to the 15th fret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 He is saying that IF this had been a Japanese like the ad states, then it would have had inlays to the 21st fret. It's definitely like he says, 1988-1994ish Samaick/Korean Sheratan II. Actually, the ad doesn't state that it is a Japanese model, that was an assumption that I was making....if it was in fact a '75, then I was assuming, according to the info about 70's Sheratons, that it had been made in Japan, possibly making it somewhat more of a collectible. But I get what you are/he are saying now. It is a Korean model, not a Japanese one. If it had had inlays to the 21st fret, then it would be a Japanese made model.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 1987 - 1997 Japanese Sheraton = Orange label & solid pearloid inlays to the 21st fret. 1980's - 1990's Korean Sharatons = Orange label & pearloid/abolane v-block inlays to the 15th fret. Got it now. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 From enlarging the photo, it looks like a three-screw TRC, and the TRC has no 'e' logo. Instead, it appears to be carrying the vertical Gibson logo. These traits again are common to the Korean-Samick Sheratons, and also the Peerless, Saein, and Unsung Korean-Epiphones from that era. I've generally seen Korean Sheratons selling used in the $400-$450 price range. Epi humbuckers from this period are frequently characterized as somewhat muddy in tone. P90s from the same era, such as on a generic Korean Casino, can often be quite satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Epi humbuckers from this period are frequently characterized as somewhat muddy in tone. P90s from the same era, such as on a generic Korean Casino, can often be quite satisfying. I can confirm that! I had an Unsung from the later part of the 90s. The pickups were somewhat microphonic, as well muddy and the gold plating on the hardware wore down almost immediately. Generic tuners and the typical 'pay your money and take your chances" hardware overall. I've recently acquired a 2015 Sheraton Pro II, IMO, this is 10x better than my last one. Vastly improved pickups and over all hardware. For around 800 bucks w/case out the door, not a bad deal all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 From enlarging the photo, it looks like a three-screw TRC, and the TRC has no 'e' logo. Instead, it appears to be carrying the vertical Gibson logo. These traits again are common to the Korean-Samick Sheratons, and also the Peerless, Saein, and Unsung Korean-Epiphones from that era. I've generally seen Korean Sheratons selling used in the $400-$450 price range. Epi humbuckers from this period are frequently characterized as somewhat muddy in tone. P90s from the same era, such as on a generic Korean Casino, can often be quite satisfying. So are you saying that you think that this could be an older Sheraton? Not a Sheraton II? I am just mostly puzzled why the individual would list it as a '75. If it indeed does have a Gibson on the TRC, then wouldn't that point to it more likely being closer to a '75? Not trying to diminish what RTH is saying.... Just trying to be clear on what you are saying. I still haven't heard anything more from the seller, but I have been busy and didn't want to bug him. He gave me his father's phone number, the owner of the guitar, so I might still call him to find out. Maybe get a serial number.... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 So are you saying that you think that this could be an older Sheraton? Not a Sheraton II? Thanks It is definite, without doubt, a Sheraton II. It's common to call a Sheraton II just a Sheraton, but in reality, a Sheraton and a Sheraton II are different guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromnabulax Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Manfred, mine is a 92 and here is the truss rod cover with the Gibson mention. It is NOT a 75. It is a 92 Sheraton II. The guy listing it as a 75 may simply be mistaken. I can assure that mine is NOT a 75. The Gibson on the cover does NOT point to it being a 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred33 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Alright, alright..... I give in, uncle..... I am convinced that it is a Sheraton II. I realize the guy made a mistake with the year, but just seems like a real doozy to list it as a '75 which is WAY off obviously.... Just would have been nice to make a find, you know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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