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Is it just ME....or


retrorod

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Is all the Made in China crap getting made even cheaper than it was 10 years ago.....and selling for more, or the same money?

 

With the Christmas season on us, I have found the need to replace some 8-10 year old outdoor decorations. More money and cheaper construction. I found the need to replace a turkey frying pot (old one leaking).

 

The new one was even cheaper and lighter construction than the 10 year old one, for the same money. Piitfullll! Can't EVEN buy quality these days...jes saying!

 

I will be 62 in a couple of weeks. Born and raised in the "golden years" of the USA. I find it very hard to digest the fact, that the politicians have sold this country off, as quickly as they have. Clothes are another story.

 

Used to buy good threads that lasted for years... Now , you are lucky if they don't fall apart after the first washing. WTF!!!

 

I know that I may sound like an old curmudgeon to some of you, but believe me, it is truly sucks to work all your life for the bullshit that is being handed down. For those of you younger folks.....you missed the best that

 

this country "used" to offer! I am sorry for you. At least, I had some time to experience the BEST!

 

 

 

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Yes, very good point.

 

I honestly don't think the younger generation knows that there is a difference, and what it is you are referring too. When I go to sears (or KMART), and remind the cashier or salesperson that CRAFTSMAN used to mean, by definition, "Made in America", they are actually surprised.

 

And for us guitar players, anyone who has compared tubes, or tried NOS American tubes, should have an idea what you mean.

 

In construction where I work, for years the next generation of power tools was always better or at least equal. Now, workers are actually trying to hold onto what they have, or pay more to have them fixed, because what we have can not be bought anymore that works as well.

 

Anyone remember how easy it was to find a job?

 

Without getting TOO political, there ARE political reasons for this, that I hope the younger ones might care to look into. There are some "good" changes that can happen that will bring much of this back. And having said that, I kinda feel we are poised for another boom in the economy.

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Hey Stein, thanks for the support, and I hope your optimism is fulfilled. Another example of the 'defunctness' of modern-day construction is in guitar amps. The modern-day amp construction is BS. They are made to save money. Modern amp PC board construction is a nightmare to repair compared to the 'vintage stuff'. It is not nearly reliable as the old gear and a nightmare to repair. Essentially, 'throwaway stuff' for the cost of repair!

 

Fender re-issue amps are junk! Let alone Vox and Bugera. Total garbage, once they fail.

 

They were never built to repair. Sad but True.

 

 

 

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Amen brother! You know why we used to wear Levi's until they were old, faded and patched? Because it took too long to break in a new pair. Now they are worn out at the store, seams sewn crooked, one back pocket bigger than the other,& watch pocket sewed shut. Guess what in 10 years it will be worse.

Amps? Don't even get me started!

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Hey Stein, thanks for the support, and I hope your optimism is fulfilled. Another example of the 'defunctness' of modern-day construction is in guitar amps. The modern-day amp construction is BS. They are made to save money. Modern amp PC board construction is a nightmare to repair compared to the 'vintage stuff'. It is not nearly reliable as the old gear and a nightmare to repair. Essentially, 'throwaway stuff' for the cost of repair!

 

Fender re-issue amps are junk! Let alone Vox and Bugera. Total garbage, once they fail.

 

They were never built to repair. Sad but True.

 

 

 

Amps? Don't even get me started!

True, a LOT of crap amps, and most are buying them.

 

But, these days, you can still get an amp built "right", just have to decide to do it and pay a little more. They ARE out there.

 

That part, the amps, that's our own fault.

 

I keep telling folks, on this here forum, if you spend good money on guitars, it's all for nothing if you don't spend on an amp.

 

The amps you listed are more suited to squires and Epiphones. Gibsons, and the better guitars, that's for amps people like to turn their nose up at because it's "boutique". But most custom-boutique amps come in around 2000-3500 bucks. That ain't all that much considering.

 

And the silly part: an Epiphone with a good amp sounds better than a Gibson through a cheap(er) amp.

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Yep. We just replaced a refrigerator. We had a serviceman out who said it would cost more to fix than buy a new one.

He explained that they weren't meant to last or to be repaired and said to consider ourselves lucky it lasted eleven years. They're engineered for a shorter life than that.

 

They try to make you feel better about it by telling you they use less energy.

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Buy early '60's Used, but not abused Fender amps! Or, buy custom hand built "boutique" everything! It's only money, right?![flapper][biggrin]

You want outstanding quality, you'll pay out the a$$ for it! Even "passable" is more expensive (sometimes, a LOT more)

than it should be [scared] ...IMHO.

 

Yeah, I know...my sarcasm is showing, AGAIN! But, it's true, more often than I care to admit, too.

 

CB

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Yep. We just replaced a refrigerator. We had a serviceman out who said it would cost more to fix than buy a new one.

He explained that they weren't meant to last or to be repaired and said to consider ourselves lucky it lasted eleven years. They're engineered for a shorter life than that.

 

They try to make you feel better about it by telling you they use less energy.

 

 

A function of government regulations and forcing them to be made to use less energy, was not the manufacturers choice just as the mandates for emissions etc...government needs to stay out of business affairs..

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Buy early '60's Used, but not abused Fender amps! Or, buy custom hand built "boutique" everything! It's only money, right?![flapper][biggrin]

You want outstanding quality, you'll pay out the a$$ for it! Even "passable" is more expensive (sometimes, a LOT more)

than it should be [scared] ...IMHO.

 

Yeah, I know...my sarcasm is showing, AGAIN! But, it's true, more often than I care to admit, too.

 

CB

Truth be told, any Fender amp (any amp, for that matter) that's 30 or 40 years old needs a rebuild anyway. And if it has been used, it's likely been done over at least once, if not multiple times.

 

Good caps, good tubes. That goes for ANY amp, cheap or not. Just makes more difference on a better amp.

 

I know I keep saying "Victoria", but I don't know who all is in business, and I don't remember half of them. I can't even think of another besides Carr at the moment.

 

They ain't THAT much money.

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In general I can't complain, most stuff seems built to last, but to my feel I experienced too many cases of warranty repairs or replacements in the recent past. Defective autofocus of a digital camera, bad capacitors of an 8-channel mic preamp and a pair of cheap condenser microphones, bad soldering points in two stereo AD/DA convertors and a bad optical output in one of them. All of them were made in countries on the mainland of Asia.

 

Japanese gear is another story. No matter if instruments or electronics, the quality is awesome. I think of my Ibanez and Fender instruments as well as of my over ten years old Korg D32XD digital recorder with all extension boards, the most expensive piece of gear I ever bought. When about Korg, they also make high-quality products in China. The three of my D3200 digital recorders made between 2005 and 2009 work flawlessly, too.

 

My instruments are mainly made in USA, most of them Gibsons, followed by Mexico, Japan, China, Indonesia, and Germany. I'm fine with all of them. Amps, speakers, and other sound reinforcement and recording gear of mine come from USA, England, China, Japan, Italy, and Germany, and other than replacing valves/tubes, one defective resistor, and, after decades, some capacitors, there hasn't been any trouble yet.

 

My household electrics are mainly made in Austria or Germany, and they serve me well. The only unit I bought twice before divorcement has been a chest freezer. I think it could have lasted somewhat longer than thirteen years, but they said twelve were normal. However, the regional representative of Liebherr, my previous unit's manufacturer, accidentally was at the store when I looked for a new one. He offered me a discount if I stay with the brand, and so he got me buying a Liebherr freezer again. [biggrin]

And like L8_4thesh0w said, the new one needs much less energy: Same external dimensions, 10% less net content, and 55% less energy consumption!

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Regarding the prices of goods (I'm talking about Asian manufacturing mainly) this all seems to go in cycles. When I was a teenager the Japanese were know for making cheap usually copied (to some extent) products, we even had a name for it "slap dashy Jap crappy" but now they make some of the best, most innovative goods on the planet. At the same time their standard of living has improved immeasurably. The same can be said of Hong Kong etc.

Sooner or later China will move on from providing the World with cheap goods, the standard of living will go up and another Asian country will probably take their place, don't assume you will get cheap products from China forever.

 

 

Ian

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I have a saying about the Chinese goods we get nowadays:

 

There is cheap Chinese sh!t

 

and then there is Dearer Chinese sh!t.

 

(yes, yes I know they also do some good products too)

 

The problem ends up that the cheap stuff edges the dearer (quality) stuff out of the market and then it's hard to but quality even if you are prepared to pay for it.

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As usual...a timely post.... [thumbup]

 

IMO there are many aspects to this 'MIC' situation....probably 30+ years in the making

 

The gradual building of confidence in the ability to produce saleable products above the cheap basement quality of previous decades

 

The realisation by Euro/American entrepreneurs that the prestigious long established labels can be stamped on goods made/assembled in the Far East

 

Low cost labour tends to win in any competitive build quote

 

The Far East are hungry for work and a better life

 

We 'Westerners' love a bargain, something for nothing and perceived VFM....

 

'The Pits' for me personally was family shopping on the high street and seeing woven baskets for plants etc assumed to be locally made...yet 'MIC'...having been shipped halfway round the world.... :blink: :blink:

 

Partly to blame are the 'supertanker' type 100,000 ton+ container ships which facilitate the moving of products in bulk across the world

 

V

 

:-({|=

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You bunch of old crotchety old farts.......

 

Just kidding, I agree.

 

Quit buying the crap and they'll go broker...............

 

Build it yourself.

 

I gotta go, I'm going to build myself a new iPhone, with EL-34's. It'll sound much better than the older ones.

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Funny thing, American cars were crap in the 70s and 80s then Toyota and Honda started selling high quality cars at competing prices and before you know it most of the cars that were being driven around where Hondas and Toyotas… Then the American car manufacturers got wise and started to build really good cars. I drive a Ford now, manufactured here in Spain but a Ford none the less. I love it! Great quality and solid as a rock… People will pay extra for quality if it's offered...

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yea I have to agree with just about everything that has been said...

 

JUST about...

 

I recently ordered a Sheraton Pro II, these are "crafted" in china... the quality of the guitar is quite good, surprisingly good.

 

it is NOT crap like so much that comes from China.

 

It's disturbing that in the US, all we seem to be good at making is debt. I do hope that some day, people that LIVE here, understand just what is really going on with things and that we are to blame for a lot of it, it's well past time to wake up and start to push the line back the other way. but unfortunately, most of the sheep sleep on...

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we are to blame for a lot of it,

 

 

Totally agree with that.

It's our insatiable hunger for cheap merchandise quality be damned that created this mess.

The majority of consumers don't care about quality. They want it cheap and will throw it away and

buy a new one cheap.

How many people refill ink in their printers. It's cheaper to buy a new printer than to refill the damn thing.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I've dealt with outsourcing manufacturing to China. One thing to note, the Chinese can make perfectly good stuff, or they can make very cheap stuff, they can't do both and they make stuff to the price point they're told too.

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I've dealt with outsourcing manufacturing to China. One thing to note, the Chinese can make perfectly good stuff, or they can make very cheap stuff, they can't do both and they make stuff to the price point they're told too.

 

You don't understand. In America, it's the government that makes these companies outsource to the absolute lowest bidder that will build the crap as cheaply as spec'd, not companies. Companies love us and want to protect us, the government hates us and wants to take our guns.

 

rct

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Guest Farnsbarns

You don't understand. In America, it's the government that makes these companies outsource to the absolute lowest bidder that will build the crap as cheaply as spec'd, not companies. Companies love us and want to protect us, the government hates us and wants to take our guns.

 

rct

 

Ah, I see. I think you may have a point.

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You don't understand. In America, it's the government that makes these companies outsource to the absolute lowest bidder that will build the crap as cheaply as spec'd, not companies. Companies love us and want to protect us, the government hates us and wants to take our guns.

 

rct

 

Aye, do people seriously think our western companies wouldn't jump over themselves in their rush to make equally cr@ppy goods on their home shores and sell them by the zillion if they could just screw down the labour rates to compete with China, but for 'government interference'....

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I honestly don't think the younger generation knows that there is a difference, and what it is you are referring too.

Obviously this isn't true, but if it were, it would be a pretty good argument to suggest that maybe we don't know the difference because your generation planned it that way.

 

Which generation do you think is responsible for the outsourcing in the first place? Do you think I went back in time and made that happen? Probably not

 

 

 

I don't think anybody that does professional construction work shops for tools at sears. I'll agree that an old craftsman table saw beats a new rigid table saw for sure, but a new makita cordless drill beats the old craftsman for sure. Some things have gotten better some have gotten worse. If you know what you're looking for you can still get the job done..

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I don't think anybody that does professional construction work shops for tools at sears. I'll agree that an old craftsman table saw beats a new rigid table saw for sure, but a new makita cordless drill beats the old craftsman for sure. Some things have gotten better some have gotten worse. If you know what you're looking for you can still get the job done..

Well, no. Professional construction workers USED to use Craftsman. I knew many that had a Sears credit card, right along with their union card. Emergencies, you know.

 

This, was SLIGHTLY before cordless stuff. But the first Craftsman cordless stuff was made by Black and Decker. And Black and Decker USED to be Dewalt. Or rather, the Dewalt name bought out the Black and Decker professional line of tools.

 

Sears didn't build tools. The Craftman tools used to be built by the American makers of tools, and they had professional lines. So, the reason that old Craftsman table saw works better than the rigid, is it was likely built by Delta or Rockwell, and was the same as those makers professional line of tools.

 

That isn't to sat they didn't have consumer grade stuff as well. But they DID have professional stuff.

 

I guess another way to put it, you wouldn't find Makita or Bosch in Craftsman, because they weren't American. "Craftsman" USED to mean 1) lifetime guareentee, 2) made in USA. The professional grade stuff was the same tools from American tool makers, and cost a bit more because of the lifetime deal.

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