Trouble keeping in tune

[Jsinicropi]

So I'm having a frustrating time with my 2014 Traditional. Since purchased there have been some tuning and intonation issues. It feels in tune, but then seems to drift and mostly sharp.

 

Here's what's been done.

 

Setup professionally about 5 or more times.

New ABR-1 conversion bridge saddles cut and setup

New Earvana nut cut and guitar setup again

Frets and fretboard leveled, well at least I thought.

 

I have sees a slight bump around the 16-18 frets mostly on the high side, and I do have some fret buzz up there. High E has always been a little, buzzy and or farty. I've lubed and graphited the nut as well.

 

What are your experiences with nuts, Earvana, Tusq, compensated, non compensated, other.

 

Tonally the guitar sounds great! But cannot seem to keep it in tune... WTF

[Rabs]

The first thing that comes to mind for me looking at those pics is that the tailpiece seems to be all the way down to the body..

 

Are the strings touching the back of the bridge? If so that may cause buzzing... If so just raise it till the strings arnt touching, re-intonate and give that a go.

 

Also I assume the trussrod was checked? And to see if the neck is straight or not?

[Jsinicropi]

The first thing that comes to mind for me looking at those pics is that the tailpiece seems to be all the way down to the body..

 

Are the strings touching the back of the bridge? If so that may cause buzzing... If so just raise it till the strings arnt touching, re-intonate and give that a go.

 

Also I assume the trussrod was checked? And to see if the neck is straight or not?

 

I always have had all my LP tailpieces all the way down. This has never affected the buzzing. I have also raised it and get the same, however it's only on the high E and B and only above the neck joint. The Hi e always seems to have a farty, buzzy sound to it.

[Rabs]

Well if all the other stuff was checked like the frets, neck and trussrod, the only other things I can think of is its the nut (which is usually the cause) or the way the strings are wrapped around the posts... If you have too many wraps it can effect tuning stability...

 

That's about all I can think of.. maybe someone else will chime in....

[Jsinicropi]

Well if all the other stuff was checked like the frets, neck and trussrod, the only other things I can think of is its the nut (which is usually the cause) or the way the strings are wrapped around the posts... If you have too many wraps it can effect tuning stability...

 

That's about all I can think of.. maybe someone else will chime in....

 

I just rechecked the stop tail piece to see if it was touching the screws... it looked very close. I did change out the nashville for abr1. just told the guy to put it all the way down as normal

 

I raised it up a bit and checked the clearance on each string and re tuned, with a slight intonation adjustment on the A. Still farty on the e but we'll see if that helps the tuning

[Rabs]

As far as how the E sounds... Is this through the amp you are talking about or acoustically?

 

If it doesn't sound right through the amp id suggest lowering the pickup a little... It may be that cause you have the action so low the stings are too close to the pickups.. Which can result in a "farty" or muddy sound... And if the strings are too close the magnets can actually pull on the string a little.. which will sound bad and kill the sustain.

 

The last thing id say is to move the top e side of the bridge up just a tiny nudge... It may just be a tad too low.

[rct]

So I'm having a frustrating time with my 2014 Traditional. Since purchased there have been some tuning and intonation issues. It feels in tune, but then seems to drift and mostly sharp.

 

"It feels in tune"

 

It is or it isn't. I'm not being a d1ck here, but it is in tune or it isn't.

 

All the strings "drift"? What does that mean?

 

Does it intonate or not?

 

Is it sharp after you bend strings a lot? Are all of them sharp?

 

Strings old? Strings new?

 

How long have you been playing? I'm not being a d1ck, but many times new people have no idea that guitars actually go out of tune.

 

rct

[stein]

I would be surprised if the screws of the bridge were not touching. The ABR-1 almost always should ge screws toward the pickup. So, it's "backwards", if that makes sense.

 

But, I doubt it matters, so long as the strings aren't breaking.

 

As far as tuning, going sharp on you, tuning issues almost always go flat, usually. Often overlooked, is temperature. If the guitar comes out of a trunk or into a different room where the tempreature is different, the guitar can be adjusting to the temperature, and won't stay in tune until it is not changing temperature anymore.

[Rabs]

I would be surprised if the screws of the bridge were not touching. The ABR-1 almost always should ge screws toward the pickup. So, it's "backwards", if that makes sense.

 

Yeah I should have noticed that.. ABR1s are usually the other way around... As we have discussed before though as long as its intonating its not a huge deal...

[Jsinicropi]

Ok, now I feel like a ******... he put the bridge on backwards, you are right the screws are supposed to be neck forward. Now I need to pull out the saddles and reverse them all and flip the bridge. We'll he's going to do it.

 

The guitar seems to drift sharp most of the time.

 

The hi e seems farty acoustically, and it does fret out when bending above the 16th fret.

[Desmosedici]

.....don't want to poke the Tiger's cage, but shouldn't the ABR-1 be around the other way (with the screws toward the pups)?

I'd question your set-up guy

How come you had fret work on such a new guitar?

[Jsinicropi]

I would be surprised if the screws of the bridge were not touching. The ABR-1 almost always should ge screws toward the pickup. So, it's "backwards", if that makes sense.

 

But, I doubt it matters, so long as the strings aren't breaking.

 

As far as tuning, going sharp on you, tuning issues almost always go flat, usually. Often overlooked, is temperature. If the guitar comes out of a trunk or into a different room where the tempreature is different, the guitar can be adjusting to the temperature, and won't stay in tune until it is not changing temperature anymore.

 

The guitar mostly sits in my studio, for the past year.

[Jsinicropi]

.....don't want to poke the Tiger's cage, but shouldn't the ABR-1 be around the other way (with the screws toward the pups)?

I'd question your set-up guy

How come you had fret work on such a new guitar?

 

That's a great question. I'll have him flip it this week. I do know guitars, I just missed this detail. About the frets, it was this way a few months after I purchased it. Most Gibson's tend to need a fret dress and or level even after new, it settles in to your climate depending on how it is.

 

Great job Gibson.

[Rabs]

Ok, now I feel like a ******... he put the bridge on backwards, you are right the screws are supposed to be neck forward. Now I need to pull out the saddles and reverse them all and flip the bridge. We'll he's going to do it.

 

The guitar seems to drift sharp most of the time.

 

The hi e seems farty acoustically, and it does fret out when bending above the 16th fret.

Actually there is something that can effect it if its the wrong way around...

 

And that's the string slots on the saddles.. If its too big for the top E cos it was meant for the bottom E it may be slipping there a bit.. If that's the case id have a word with your guitar tech if I were you..

 

Good luck, hope this all helps..

[Jsinicropi]

"It feels in tune"

 

It is or it isn't. I'm not being a d1ck here, but it is in tune or it isn't.

 

All the strings "drift"? What does that mean?

 

Does it intonate or not?

 

Is it sharp after you bend strings a lot? Are all of them sharp?

 

Strings old? Strings new?

 

How long have you been playing? I'm not being a d1ck, but many times new people have no idea that guitars actually go out of tune.

 

rct

 

 

It intonnates perfectly and yes with new strings. I've been playing for about 30 years. I have the ability to keep my guitar necks straight with truss adjustments as well as intonate as needed.

[stein]

That's a great question. I'll have him flip it this week. I do know guitars, I just missed this detail. About the frets, it was this way a few months after I purchased it. Most Gibson's tend to need a fret dress and or level even after new, it settles in to your climate depending on how it is.

 

Great job Gibson.

Climate, settling, that has nothing to do with fret dressings.

 

Fret dressings, strings fretting out, won't stay in tune. FIVE set ups?!

 

There is too much going on here. Sounds like you need a set up.

 

And really, either a tech, or a NEW tech. Did I beat RTC to it?

[Desmosedici]

Rabs is onto it with the saddle slot theory

[slimt]

You put a new Nut on this? if cut wrong and at the wrong angle .. it will be a problem.. or Just maybe.. the ABR is tilting forward on the posts.. throwing it off just a hair..

[Jsinicropi]

Rabs is onto it with the saddle slot theory

 

 

Guys... please keep in mind I had similar issues with the original Nashville bridge that was on this...

 

I am a former employ of Guitar Center of many years and have played and sold many Custom shop guitar and Les Pauls. I sold a $10K Joe Perry that needed fret dressing and a complete setup, twice on the setup. Set neck guitars mostly always have issues about the neck joint after they settle in. Some more than others, some less.

 

The guy that did the best setup, which was on the Nashville is Mark from Wild West Guitars out here in California. He found that the Nashville bridge that was on there at the time, about 3 months ago, was actually flattening out from the string pressure. He heated it up and re bent it to the correct neck radius. I did play way better but still not awesome on the hi e side. He also did a fret level, well he said he did. I do have more fret wear now more around the open chord areas on the neck around 1-5 mostly on the ebg...appears to be my happy zone. hah

[Jsinicropi]

You put a new Nut on this? if cut wrong and at the wrong angle .. it will be a problem..

 

 

Understood. It is playing BETTER then it has ever played but still having some issues. This tech has been doing heavy repairs and setups for many many years and came recommended to me from a gear and tone snob buddy that has custom shop guitars. I will see the tech this week and discuss some of these concerns.

 

Like my hair, I don't just go to anyone!

[slimt]

Understood. It is playing BETTER then it has ever played but still having some issues. This tech has been doing heavy repairs and setups for many many years and came recommended to me from a gear and tone snob buddy that has custom shop guitars. I will see the tech this week and discuss some of these concerns.

 

Like my hair, I don't just go to anyone!

 

 

Hey, Ive some of the finest Luthiers make the biggest mistakes. thats how they got better... wiggle the ABR attached to the posts.. is there movement.. It really does not take much at all to throw off intonation...

[Jsinicropi]

I checked the guitar tuning now every 30 minutes or so without playing it and it appears to be more stable with the tailpiece up a little higher. I do think the bridge being on backwards is most of the issue.

[Jsinicropi]

Hey, Ive some of the finest Luthiers make the biggest mistakes. thats how they got better... wiggle the ABR attached to the posts.. is there movement.. It really does not take much at all to throw off intonation...

 

 

There is no movement with TonePros bridges. They are set in place with an allen screw. TonePros has higher tolerances than other manufacturers so that there is minimal movement in places where you want none.

 

They took over making Kluson for some time but lost out on the licensing this past year. The 2014 Les Paul Traditional and a few others had TonePros parts on them.

[rct]

About the frets, it was this way a few months after I purchased it. Most Gibson's tend to need a fret dress and or level even after new, it settles in to your climate depending on how it is.

 

Great job Gibson.

 

I've been using their guitars since 1972. Literally dozens have gone through my grubby mitts. This has not been my experience at all. It takes a guitar about ten minutes of playing to "settle".

 

I'm not being a d1ck. I don't want to argue, I just can't get behind the idea that all these les pauls need fret dresses and leveling after they "settle".

 

rct

[capmaster]

I would be surprised if the screws of the bridge were not touching. The ABR-1 almost always should ge screws toward the pickup. So, it's "backwards", if that makes sense.

 

But, I doubt it matters, so long as the strings aren't breaking.

 

As far as tuning, going sharp on you, tuning issues almost always go flat, usually. Often overlooked, is temperature. If the guitar comes out of a trunk or into a different room where the tempreature is different, the guitar can be adjusting to the temperature, and won't stay in tune until it is not changing temperature anymore.

Ok, now I feel like a ******... he put the bridge on backwards, you are right the screws are supposed to be neck forward. Now I need to pull out the saddles and reverse them all and flip the bridge. We'll he's going to do it.

 

The guitar seems to drift sharp most of the time.

 

The hi e seems farty acoustically, and it does fret out when bending above the 16th fret.

From the pictures it seems obvious to me that string action is too low.

 

Strings usually tend to go flat after bendings, sharp from being just picked. Strings touching bridge adjustment screws can be more prone to going out of tune.

 

 

...

How come you had fret work on such a new guitar?

That makes me wonder, too.

 

 

Guys... please keep in mind I had similar issues with the original Nashville bridge that was on this...

 

I am a former employ of Guitar Center of many years and have played and sold many Custom shop guitar and Les Pauls. I sold a $10K Joe Perry that needed fret dressing and a complete setup, twice on the setup. Set neck guitars mostly always have issues about the neck joint after they settle in. Some more than others, some less.

 

The guy that did the best setup, which was on the Nashville is Mark from Wild West Guitars out here in California. He found that the Nashville bridge that was on there at the time, about 3 months ago, was actually flattening out from the string pressure. He heated it up and re bent it to the correct neck radius. I did play way better but still not awesome on the hi e side. He also did a fret level, well he said he did. I do have more fret wear now more around the open chord areas on the neck around 1-5 mostly on the ebg...appears to be my happy zone. hah

Never had or heard of serious issues of brand-new set-neck guitars neck joints after settling in. I also doubt a Nashville bridge would bend due to string pressure. Neither stock Nashville nor stock ABR-1 bridges will do that in decades. I think it would have to be a bridge faulty from the start.

 

 

Hey, Ive some of the finest Luthiers make the biggest mistakes. thats how they got better... wiggle the ABR attached to the posts.. is there movement.. It really does not take much at all to throw off intonation...

Yep.