american cheez Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 i have a guitar similar to an sg. i am having trouble with neck dive. i have a wide strap, but all it does is bunch up my shirt. i have considered moving the rear strap button up 2" but don't want to drill a hole until i know it will work. anyone have any thoughts? i've seen the youtube video where some....guy filled the control cavity with BBs. that's the dumbest thing i ever saw, and not a viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I use big wide glove leather straps, shiny slippery side down. I like the guitar to be able to move, since it doesn't stay still all night. Never had a real problem with any neck diving guitars. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 i have a guitar similar to an sg. i am having trouble with neck dive. i have a wide strap, but all it does is bunch up my shirt. i have considered moving the rear strap button up 2" but don't want to drill a hole until i know it will work. anyone have any thoughts? i've seen the youtube video where some....guy filled the control cavity with BBs. that's the dumbest thing i ever saw, and not a viable solution. I wouldn't fill the cavity with BB shot but I have inserted a flattened lead fishing weight (6 oz) into the cavity (screwed to a side) which balances the guitar perfectly (my Epi SG which is a real diver). I don't notice the extra weight on the guitar as a whole and the weight is well fastened and can cause no problems. It is also unobservable to any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 ... i am having trouble with neck dive. i have a wide strap, but all it does is bunch up my shirt. i have considered moving the rear strap button up 2" but don't want to drill a hole until i know it will work. ... Using wide straps with a suede inside and playing some neck-heavy beasts I sadly have to say I know the bunching up cloth problem, too. <_< To be honest, my only workaround is using shirts made from a heavier and thicker fabric. This feels more comfortable to me than always trying to hold up the neck with the striking hand's forearm. There also are picking techniques on guitar and bass that don't allow for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I just use a good suede or brushed leather for everything. I think I like the (+/0 $40) Levy straps the best, (and they smell all leathery n-stuff) Even the SGs stay put.. my brother in law let me use his really nice 60th anniversary tele one night at a jam,, he has one of those cheesy seat-belt cloth straps. (all my straps have strap locks, this one didn't) after 5 minutes, I handed it back to him... couldn't keep the thing in the right spot to save my life "the Tele is great, your strap sucks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Well, none of my SG's have any "neck dive" tendencies, at all. I have played a couple, with the fatter necks, that have had that tendency. But, I'd never actually BUY one. It's just another reason it's essential, (at least for me) to play as many as I can, to find the "right" one, before I buy any. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I have two SGs and here are my recommendations. 1. Use a strap that is textured on the underside; width is unimportant. As was mentioned suede or brushed leather is great. Me? I have a decorative strap where the underside material is seat belt (very slippery) so my wife sewed a patch of corduroy underneath. Problem solved. 2. Get a Bigsby. The counter weight will keep the guitar balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Worst neck dive I ever had was with a hollow-body Tele style guitar. It weighed about 4 lbs and that neck hurled itself to the floor with great vigor. What I did was nothing. It is not a problem when I'm playing the guitar, you don't feel like your holding up the neck. I don't care what happens when I'm not playing the guitar. So I like smooth leather straps, slide guitar into position to play. The end. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I've wondered what style of music it is where SG neck dive becomes an issue. Is there a musical style where your hands aren't on the neck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 The problem is, for me anyway, I don't want to waste any energy at all trying to keep the guitar in the proper position. I just want it to stay.. even when palying, I move around the neck enough where the guitar is going to move if there's neck dive. I tend to wear them up sort of high, rather than down lower, and this could have a lot to do with it. My bro-inlaw (yea Clint same guy I talked to you about the other day with the pickup work, still waiting for him to say "yay or nay") has a real nice 60th ann Tele, he let me use it at a jam one night, had a seatbelt material strap. Nice guitar, sucky strap. It was driving me crazy. I lasted one song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Mustard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I own two Gibson SGs, and they both balance perfectly. But they are so light and sensitive that putting a Keyser capo on will cause the guitar to be head heavy. And I use a 'partial capo" so sometimes I'll have two of them on. My girlfriend saw me struggling with the strap one night, and she sewed some non-slip material on the underside of the strap... it's the same thing she uses for shelf liners. I've used it under my dashboard phone stand too. You can get this stuff at a fabric store. If you lack a girlfriend who sews, you can glue it using E-6000 glue. That should hold it. I also play djembe, and most of the time my djembe straps hold fine... but apparently some shirt fabrics are more slippery than others. So my girlfriend sewed this non-slip stuff onto my djembe straps, and I have no more problems with those either. One reason for neck dive is heavy tuners. (such as Grover Rotomatics, or Sperzel locking tuners etc). If you're considering replacing the tuners on your SG-like instrument, get Grover Vintage Keystone tuners from StewMac... These weigh the same as the stock Gibson tuners and ought to relieve your guitar of neck dive issues. If you look carefully on this website, you'll see that StewMac reports how much these weigh. You can weigh your present tuners carefully and compare... then you'll know. http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Solid_Peghead_Guitar_Tuning_Machines/Grover_Vintage_135_Series_3and3_Tuners.html I have a set of these on my '07 SG special, and they work great and the guitar balances perfectly. It's an easy fix. If your guitar is foreign made, you can get similar tuners made by Gotoh, which will fit metric holes and not upset your guitar's balance. Highly recommended. I just installed a set of the Gotoh tuners on my Epiphone ES-339 P-90 pro. And I'm happy with the results. http://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/tuning-machines/gotoh-sd90-vintage-kluson-style-guitar-tuning-machines-nickel/ Good luck with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I've wondered what style of music it is where SG neck dive becomes an issue. Is there a musical style where your hands aren't on the neck? For me it has to do with playability only. I dislike doing anything but fretting with my left hand. I can live with a certain amount of holding up through keeping the body down with my attacking hand's forearm, but most of the neck heaviness will have to take the strap. Anyway, wearing an instrument nicely balanced while dangling on a neck strap is best. None of my basses and SG guitars allows me to jump around same time, and some of my L6Ses and Fender Telecasters are critical, too. No problem with any Les Paul or Fender Stratocaster of mine. During my childhood years I already hated supporting my violin with my left hand and held it using my chin only from the start. In contrast, the bass player of one of my bands rubbed off the finish along the neck's treble side of all of his basses through keeping up the neck with the fretting hand. For a new bass it usually takes him just a few dozens playing hours until he is down to the wood, starting somewhere between 3rd and 9th fret in most cases. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american cheez Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 I just installed a set of the Gotoh tuners on my Epiphone ES-339 P-90 pro. when i bought this guitar, i was also looking at an epi 339 pro. it was a REALLY CLOSE call. those guitars are sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkesman Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 i have a wide strap, but all it does is bunch up my shirt. If it's bunching your shirt up then I guess your strap must have good friction, but maybe only in one direction? Have you tried using the strap the other way round to see if it makes a difference? I've used the same wide woven leather strap since the early 80's, and it grips my shoulder well for all of my guitars, with no 'shirt bunching'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Wide suede works for me. Try a different style shirt too! No bunching with my shirt & strap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Mustard Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I've wondered what style of music it is where SG neck dive becomes an issue. Is there a musical style where your hands aren't on the neck? I have a Martin 0-17 acoustic. The 0-17 is a small mahogany "parlor" guitar. Mine was made in 1936, as an entry level acoustic then but it rings like a bell, and is surprisingly loud, with plenty of bottom as well as bright clear highs. I bought it used in like 1985 and have been gigging it ever since. When I bought it, the tuners (made by Waverley) were worn out and would not hold tune. So since it was the 80s and mod fever was sweeping the country, I had my luthier replace the tuners with Grover Rotomatics. These are excellent tuners, but caused annoying neck dive on this lightweight instrument. They weigh twice what the Waverley set did, or more. I actually had no idea what was causing the neck dive... it never occurred to me that one set of tuners might weigh more than another. So I put up with it for years, thinking it was only my clumsy playing that was the problem. The style of music where my hands are not on the neck as much is: playing slide in open tunings. Usually DADF#AD or DADF#CD... Neck dive is really obnoxious when you're trying to play slide. The guitar enjoyed tuning stability, so I actually never considered the Grover tuners to be a problem until I bought a MIM Telecaster. Guessing that the Mexican made guitar had cheap look-alike tuners, I ordered a set of Grover 6 In-line tuners and happily screwed them on. Neck Dive City! Suddenly the light bulb came on. I was also trying to use the Tele to play slide, and before I "improved" it, it balanced perfectly, like a good Fender guitar should. I played the Tele (which weighs about 8lb) for about six months before the neck dive bugged me enough that I took the Grovers off and screwed the stock tuners back on. In that time, I tried a lot of things... one of which was a 1lb lead fishing weight hung from the strap at the rear. That helped. But putting the stock tuners back on the Tele restored the balance, and I threw the fishing weight away. And the end of the story for the old Martin (I named her Rosebud) is that Waverley re-issued a set of tuners matching what they sold to Martin during the time period my 0-17 was made. It took me all of three minutes to make up my mind that I wanted this. The hesitation was because of the $150 price tag. But Rosebud deserves the best, and I do have a mastercard. So she now sports a set of tuners exactly like the ones she was built with (which I kept)... and she now balances perfectly again, as a good Martin guitar should. There you have it folks... the cause of neck dive and the cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I have a Martin 0-17 acoustic. The 0-17 is a small mahogany "parlor" guitar. Mine was made in 1936, as an entry level acoustic then but it rings like a bell, and is surprisingly loud, with plenty of bottom as well as bright clear highs. I bought it used in like 1985 and have been gigging it ever since. When I bought it, the tuners (made by Waverley) were worn out and would not hold tune. So since it was the 80s and mod fever was sweeping the country, I had my luthier replace the tuners with Grover Rotomatics. These are excellent tuners, but caused annoying neck dive on this lightweight instrument. They weigh twice what the Waverley set did, or more. I actually had no idea what was causing the neck dive... it never occurred to me that one set of tuners might weigh more than another. So I put up with it for years, thinking it was only my clumsy playing that was the problem. The style of music where my hands are not on the neck as much is: playing slide in open tunings. Usually DADF#AD or DADF#CD... Neck dive is really obnoxious when you're trying to play slide. The guitar enjoyed tuning stability, so I actually never considered the Grover tuners to be a problem until I bought a MIM Telecaster. Guessing that the Mexican made guitar had cheap look-alike tuners, I ordered a set of Grover 6 In-line tuners and happily screwed them on. Neck Dive City! Suddenly the light bulb came on. I was also trying to use the Tele to play slide, and before I "improved" it, it balanced perfectly, like a good Fender guitar should. I played the Tele (which weighs about 8lb) for about six months before the neck dive bugged me enough that I took the Grovers off and screwed the stock tuners back on. In that time, I tried a lot of things... one of which was a 1lb lead fishing weight hung from the strap at the rear. That helped. But putting the stock tuners back on the Tele restored the balance, and I threw the fishing weight away. And the end of the story for the old Martin (I named her Rosebud) is that Waverley re-issued a set of tuners matching what they sold to Martin during the time period my 0-17 was made. It took me all of three minutes to make up my mind that I wanted this. The hesitation was because of the $150 price tag. But Rosebud deserves the best, and I do have a mastercard. So she now sports a set of tuners exactly like the ones she was built with (which I kept)... and she now balances perfectly again, as a good Martin guitar should. There you have it folks... the cause of neck dive and the cure. Slide, I can see how neck dive would be a real issue for slide. I have always hated Grover tuners. A solution looking for a problem in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 With all these rough side of the strap down on yer shirts nonea you guys woulda cut it in the hairy 80's when we were whippin 'em around the shoulder. Good times. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 With all these rough side of the strap down on yer shirts nonea you guys woulda cut it in the hairy 80's when we were whippin 'em around the shoulder. Good times. rct you animal you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 ... I actually never considered the Grover tuners to be a problem until I bought a MIM Telecaster. Guessing that the Mexican made guitar had cheap look-alike tuners, I ordered a set of Grover 6 In-line tuners and happily screwed them on. Neck Dive City! Suddenly the light bulb came on. Bull's eye! You're really onto something. The only neck-heavy Telecaster of mine is an American Deluxe Ash with locking, sealed die-cast tuners. Three MIM Teles of mine are the same weight. They have cheap tuners and no neck-dive tendencies at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Well, I don't know....I have a double cut LP Special, that I changed out the butter bean (stock) tuners, to a set of Grover (full sized) "Milk Bottle" Rotomatics, and they didn't make that guitar "neck heavy" at all. They did seem to help with the sustain, though. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Double post... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT2 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I just use a 3 inch wide strap on my SG. No problems so far. I probably shouldn't say that out loud though :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Mustard Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Well, the OP said he has an SG-like guitar... and maybe someone put heavy tuners on it. I'm not dissing Grover tuners, only the weight issue. If they don't upset the balance of a guitar they are great. And Grover makes other types than the Rotomatics... I like their 'Vintage Keystones." I've read of lots of Epiphone SG players bewailing the head heavy tendencies of their G-400 guitars. And some (or all) of those are burdened with Grover Rotomatic tuners. I believe that Grover (like many other patriotic U.S. corporations) has built a factory in China. I wonder if there are any U.S. made Grovers any more. I use them on several guitars, they were stock on my 1975 Mossman acoustic and on many Martins as well. So at least the old ones are good quality. But the Rotomatics are more than twice as heavy as the corresponding "Vintage Keystone" tuners I have on my '07 SG. And that's enough to make many types of guitar head heavy. Some of the locking tuner sets are also much heavier than an SG can support. The Gotoh tuners I installed on my Epiphone work fine and don't cause any trouble. To be honest, there seemed to be nothing wrong with the stock tuners on that ES-339. I replaced them because I wanted black. *shrugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Grovers have been made in Vietnam for at least 20 years now. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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