Roach Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Do effects processors like a digitech multi effects stomp box, (rp50), actually take away everything that the guitar itself is made to do? I mean does it defeat the purpose of actually owning the guitar that these things are attempting to emulate? I guess what im asking is, after buying this awesome 2016 LP studio am i just preventing it from doing what it is made to do by processing the signal in such a way? I wonder if using such a box, am i even hearing my guitar anymore? I am new to effects, but it seems like what i am really looking for is a marshall stack, or at least that sort of tone/sound at bedroom wanker volume tho. I guess everyone struggles with finding the tone they want eh. I was a drummer, i just banged on the drum...lol it was easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I don't know much about multi-fx's, but I am using digital reverb pedal. I plug it into my amp's fx-loop, it sounds like my guitar through my amp but with reverb. If I had noticed that it changed the signal to something that didn't sound like my guitar trough my amp, I wouldn't have kept it. Once I was looking for one of those multi-thingies, the ones that looked best to me were Boss and Zoom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Hmm, I guessing if I played any of my solid guitars through a cranked Marshall stack then the predominant sound I'd be hearing would be cranked Marshall stack anyway. On say a Fender clean with some reverb then I'd expect the guitar to define itself far more. I had a go at a zoom multi fx pedal and it was fun for that sort of thing so just enjoy it for what it is and don't worry about it - when I buy a LP it will probably be a black Studio too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The answer is no. Every guitar put through one of these units will sound different to each other. You guitar wont lose its identity. If you are talking about FX such as gain boost, delay, chorus etc. Its an easy choice. These FX can be configured to how you want them to sound. Digital modelling: This is different, but your guitar will still be unique used with it. These are designed to change the signal used to a particular type of amp & speaker combination. So you can change from a Fender sound to a Marshall sound and have full control of EQ, gain etc. You can use as much or as little of these sounds as you want. They are usually user configured and assigned to a stomp switch/pedal. If you get digital modelling, the pre-set tones/patches will nearly all be way over the top. Great for your bedroom, but unusable at gigging volume without you modifying them to back off the intensity. There is also some guitar (strat/LP) modelling, but you can ignore these or just experiment with them (your guitar will still retain its ID though) Note: Tube amp purists dont like digital modeling. The reality is that they really do 'sound' like the Amps they emulate, but they dont 'behave' like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 wow those are some good answers. I appreciate that. The sound of a les paul through a marshall stack has always been my favorite rock sound. But hanging up the drumming now I want to get more serious about guitar, but it just is not practical to play through that much power. Most times i am even embarrassed to hear myself through headphones hahaha. Also advertising to my neighborhood that i own anything of value not good... I think my amp is what my issue is. It was a nifty fifty by danelectro, but i replaced the amp chassis in the cabinet with an older danelectro honeytone, (NOT THE MINI AMP), The nifty fifty is really the same thing but less vintage fuzz. My problem with it is if i get loud enough to sound good, its too loud. and choosing the level of overdrive/distortion is HARD... because it either doesnt have any balls or it gets tooo fuzzy sounding and once it goes to digital that fuzz is even worse. i think ill need a new amp to find the power and overdrive that im looking for... Yes the rp-50 has many choices of amps and all those have an alternate cabinet EMULATORS. I can see what you meant about using it in a gig it really does only work well at low volume and only setting my amp to clean. Tho thats one good use for mics. (sm57's) right? Oh and the brass nut on my 2016 LP Studio is really nice with the adjustable feature, but its a bit brighter sounding than I expected i got lots of noob player questions i will post about soon, but THANKS again for all your answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 I don't know much about multi-fx's, but I am using digital reverb pedal. I plug it into my amp's fx-loop, it sounds like my guitar through my amp but with reverb. If I had noticed that it changed the signal to something that didn't sound like my guitar trough my amp, I wouldn't have kept it. Once I was looking for one of those multi-thingies, the ones that looked best to me were Boss and Zoom. I have a reverb stomper too, danelectro corned beef its called, but after not using it for like 8 years i doubt it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 actually take away everything that the guitar itself is made to do? I mean does it defeat the purpose of actually owning the guitar No , they change the sound a bit to a lot, but you are still in there, you are the key to the sound if you want to sound like anything from just a distorted guitar, to a violin to a voice to an airplane,, you're in control.. do I like Steve Vai's playing or Jeff Beck's not really ,, give me Joe Bonamassa any day over them don't get me wrong Vai and Beck are great players.. just not my cup of tea. The RP-50 is an older low-end digitech unit, I have one, I should have sold it before it was worth close to nothing. They're not the best sounding effect in the world. Plus each number has a multiple of effects on at the same time. Trying to custom the patches to sound half decent is too much time. Get yourself 3 things 1- wah 2- distortion pedal Stay away from low end makes (Behringer & Danelectro are just two names in the low-end pedal game) 3- Webber Minimas attenuator to reduce the volume coming out of the speaker, so you et the amp at the good sound level http://www.tedweber.com/gadgets/attenuators The RP50 will not get you there, it's sounds are not good from int in my opinion. Now if you talking a Axe Fx rack processor totally different story http://www.fractalaudio.com/ But an rp50 won't even come close to what's in your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Do effects processors like a digitech multi effects stomp box, (rp50), actually take away everything that the guitar itself is made to do? The potential is certainly there to do just that. But you can find a good balance where the guitar you use, will retain it's own characteristics, and usually "less is more" when it comes to this. Gain / distortion settings can easily take over and mask the tone of your instrument, as would lots of reverb, chorus and delay, etc... Just start out with nominal settings for all of these, and find your own sweet spot. Find a good clean sound first. You'll need that. Eventually, you'll want to shop out a decent (traditional) amp that offers a good pure sound, and gives you some channel switching options and on board reverb. you can get other tones from a good over drive pedal, and add some modulation or delay to the signal chain in the form of stomp box pedals. You could also go down another path (as merciful suggests) and look at what some of the newer modeling amps offer. The Marshall Code, Fender Mustang, Vox Valvetronix for example are all amps that do what the RP50 will do, but in a full combo form factor, and they are not crazy money. These newer products also take advantage of newer technologies in the amp modeling product space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Do effects processors like a digitech multi effects stomp box, (rp50), actually take away everything that the guitar itself is made to do? The potential is certainly there to do just that. But you can find a good balance where the guitar you use, will retain it's own characteristics, and usually "less is more" when it comes to this. Gain / distortion settings can easily take over and mask the tone of your instrument, as would lots of reverb, chorus and delay, etc... Just start out with nominal settings for all of these, and find your own sweet spot. Find a good clean sound first. You'll need that. Eventually, you'll want to shop out a decent (traditional) amp that offers a good pure sound, and gives you some channel switching options and on board reverb. you can get other tones from a good over drive pedal, and add some modulation or delay to the signal chain in the form of stomp box pedals. You could also go down another path (as merciful suggests) and look at what some of the newer modeling amps offer. The Marshall Code, Fender Mustang, Vox Valvetronix for example are all amps that do what the RP50 will do, but in a full combo form factor, and they are not crazy money. These newer products also take advantage of newer technologies in the amp modeling product space. The thing about the newer technologies and even the cheap rp-50 is that money = options. Like you said for me to keep it simple, i am not trying to get 50 presets with 30 different amps and 20 speaker cabinet options, I just need one amp with the sound im looking for. Here is another question about effects. I use a focusrite scarlet solo as an interface to record to guitar tracks pro 3. Have lot to learn about that and plugins so this is where my concern about manipulating the guitars signal starts feeling like i am losing something that the guitar being the awesome les paul it is, is really able to express. Butthe question im leading to is about software, amps, effects, what is a low cost way to get my sound dialed in without too many time wasting options? (Probably a highly opinionated preference type of question. Let me assure you i am not trolling for an angry mob to attack each other, i really am here to learn) I appreciate all of your answers, even if i disagree about a wah pedal, heehee (oops my bad i did serious to sarcastic humor in one thing i suck at writing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Ok let me back up to the very very beginner question, slightly embarrassed but here goes. low, mid, high... i do understand the mid is the debate that long time players have with newer players, What do you guys think these three amp settings should be? I started out with all three at 50 % Then played with it for months this way and that. I have found this amp seems best with low slightly down like 4, midlike 6, (more like 4.5 and 5.5), and high at 5. depending with some drive on i like to bring the mids down allot. as long as the lows are not drowning the highs and the highs dont make the lows seem whimpy. I love when the les pauls highs just cut through the big lows like for example the intro to rock candy, montrose... Like when you play a low e or g and then the hitgh e or g cuts through. but i dont like when i sitch from a e chord to a g chord and the lows blend to the point you barely notice the chord change... probably should have made new thread on eq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Like you said for me to keep it simple, i am not trying to get 50 presets with 30 different amps and 20 speaker cabinet options, I just need one amp with the sound im looking for. Ryan H is a member here who builds a pedal specifically to replicate a JCM800 Marshall. You might want to search RyanH in Members or NugeFX his business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Ok let me back up to the very very beginner question, slightly embarrassed but here goes. low, mid, high... i do understand the mid is the debate that long time players have with newer players, What do you guys think these three amp settings should be? I started out with all three at 50 % Then played with it for months this way and that. I have found this amp seems best with low slightly down like 4, midlike 6, (more like 4.5 and 5.5), and high at 5. depending with some drive on i like to bring the mids down allot. as long as the lows are not drowning the highs and the highs dont make the lows seem whimpy. I love when the les pauls highs just cut through the big lows like for example the intro to rock candy, montrose... Like when you play a low e or g and then the hitgh e or g cuts through. but i dont like when i sitch from a e chord to a g chord and the lows blend to the point you barely notice the chord change... probably should have made new thread on eq? They should all be set where they sound best. This will vary, that's why there are knobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 They should all be set where they sound best. This will vary, that's why there are knobs. so funny i made the bathroom stink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hmm, I guessing if I played any of my solid guitars through a cranked Marshall stack then the predominant sound I'd be hearing would be cranked Marshall stack anyway. On say a Fender clean with some reverb then I'd expect the guitar to define itself far more. I had a go at a zoom multi fx pedal and it was fun for that sort of thing so just enjoy it for what it is and don't worry about it - when I buy a LP it will probably be a black Studio too. If you do not own a LP yet the best thing i can say for the studio is it is not nearly as heavy as a standard and if its your first LP that is a huge factor after playing it for an hour or longer while standing up, depends on what sort of shape you are in and your posture, but an hour with a standard, traditional, classic, custom, would be hell on me. i think (not sure) that the studio might also be heavier than a fender though. Also you are guessing a bit wrong. The LP through a marshall stack has a sound that cannot ever be duplicated or matched. There is no way you can possibly get single coil pickups to come near the sound of gibson humbuckers...that is impossible and is the reason my two guitars are les pauls. Nothing, software or emulators, nothing compares to gibsons humbuckers through a marshall stack. But for practical reasons i have to keep trying to chase that dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 If you do not own a LP yet the best thing i can say for the studio is it is not nearly as heavy as a standard and if its your first LP that is a huge factor after playing it for an hour or longer while standing up, depends on what sort of shape you are in and your posture, but an hour with a standard, traditional, classic, custom, would be hell on me. i think (not sure) that the studio might also be heavier than a fender though. Also you are guessing a bit wrong. The LP through a marshall stack has a sound that cannot ever be duplicated or matched. There is no way you can possibly get single coil pickups to come near the sound of gibson humbuckers...that is impossible and is the reason my two guitars are les pauls. Nothing, software or emulators, nothing compares to gibsons humbuckers through a marshall stack. But for practical reasons i have to keep trying to chase that dragon. Are there particular artists or recordings that impress this sound you are chasing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Maybe a low wattage Marshall tube amp would make more sense. So you could crank it at low volumes, and get some sweet tuby crunch. I am not sure, but I guess that your Lester through a Marshall (even a low watt's combo) would sound better than any multi fx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hello! It's all about the amp. No matter how great guitar You have. It will never sound better than Your amp does. In my experience, the better amp You have, the less effects You will use. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Are there particular artists or recordings that impress this sound you are chasing? i mentioned montrose, rock candy intro Randy Rhoads also used LP + Marshall There are 100's if not 1000's of others But the best example is the Rock Candy intro throw 3 humbuckers is and you got hagars sound yea? Oh yea the last band i was in, our lead guitarist used a 70's LP and full stack ALthough those are examples of a sound, that sound belongs to the artists that used it, the sound I am actually chasing is pretty much my own and one i havent yet found. But i will say it is not a sound of heavy processing. guitar plus amp and a few pedals perhaps, long ago i had 4 or 5 boss stompers and i enjoyed those. i had a marlboro yes like the cigerrettes a marlboro half stack. yup it was full cabinet and head. It only had a clean sound without the pedals i think it was actually a keyboard/vocal amp for a church or something, it was not specifically a guitar amp but it worked nice. That was over 30 years ago. I also had a vintage fender pro 185 omg that would have been amazing, but, it did not work and i took tit to a loser to repair and it got ripped off. I think that thing would be worth allot now. Thanks guys, i think Mr Jones has given me the answer I need. I will do some amp shopping soon, or maybe i can get my nifty fifty repaired and put it back in its cab. At least till i can afford a half decent marshall... Hey Anyone here tried those orange amps? Ill have to listen to those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Orange? Ha! That's funny. I'm probably THE Orange nut on this forum. Personally I think that you can't go wrong with them. I'm really satisfied with my TH30, I get all the sound's I wan't. The Terror series is amazing too, you can't get it easier to dial in your sound. I also own a Micro Terror wich is perfect for practicing late at night with headphones. And through my two PPC112 it can be ridiculously loud, at low volumes it has still a lovely crunchy overdrive. For a head of this size with only one valve in the preamp (hybrid) it sounds pretty cool. Check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hello! It's all about the amp. No matter how great guitar You have. It will never sound better than Your amp does. In my experience, the better amp You have, the less effects You will use. Cheers... Bence Best thing said on this thread so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 The more "quality" the amp has, the more a "better" sounding guitar will sound different than a cheaper one. I might say the same goes for effects. Picture a simple effects pedal made with care using higher quality components vs cheaper components. Which are going to let more of the original sound through? Everything in the chain matters, but how much? I am always a bit surprised how many have lots invested/spent on guitars, but still use "cheap" amps. Just because an amp cost a lot of money doesn't make it good, but there are a LOT of really, REALLY good amps out there that just can't be built for 500-600 bucks that many just don't ever try and experience. My personal experience, collecting/playing many different "cheap" amps results in different voicings, but really is just steps sideways. But once a person decides to step up so to speak, and go for the best they can find, differences in guitars AND effects become more apparent, and more pleasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 so this: the guitars signal starts feeling like i am losing something that the guitar being the awesome les paul it is, is really able to express. I'm not quite sure of how all the things you've mentioned for your recording setup, will be able to retain or reproduce the dynamics that a persons hands will impart while playing. as you will soon discover when you upgrade your rig and find a suitable tube amp. These respond to your attack and touch, much more so than things like software plugins and multi-use devices. The technology has improved the Fender Mustangs are probably at this time, the best at dealing with this. But still, you will never achieve the "connection" between a players hands, and the amp like a good tube amp will. (This is part of the love relationship guitar players have with tube amps) Solid state amps, and devices, just don't really "get" there. If you go with a Class A amp (like many of the orange amps are, or a Vox AC series) the touch response is even more so than a class A/B amp, (like a marshall or fender combo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Best thing said on this thread so far. Agreed, however, I need to get some skills first hahaha I have several amps at the moment, and unless i can learn to start practicing instead of playing i should hold off on the big money amp purchase. For now. thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I still say, a good/great guitar, through a GREAT amp, is all you need! "Effects" should be used sparingly, and only for their specific effect, as opposed to rendering basic "tone!" As to "tube/valve" amps, vs Solid State? For me, it's more about what gives the optimum tone that YOU like! BB King did well, with both the Fender Twin Reverb (tube) amp, and his other favorite, a Gibson Lab Series twin 12, which was Solid State! He STILL sounded like himself, regardless! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Sorry, double post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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