Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Hard Times at Gruhn?


jedzep

Recommended Posts

It must be a consignment guitar. Gruhn is usually pretty straight-ahead. Owner sent it in for evaluation, Gruhn told him what it would need and what it would cost, and seller said "get whatever you can for it".

 

If it's really late 1960's, it probably isn't double-X braced. But I'm not a fan of the ABR bridge on an acoustic.

 

I suspect it's a "make an offer" guitar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen that kind of pricing with other brick and mortar shops that have a gbase or website inventory. sight unseen, don't want to play it or talk to anyone, just want to click and ship it? Ok, weirdo collector, pay the premium. If you call and talk it over and make an offer, chances are everyone knows what it's worth in a retail environment, and will come to a fair price for everyone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen that kind of pricing with other brick and mortar shops that have a gbase or website inventory. sight unseen, don't want to play it or talk to anyone, just want to click and ship it? Ok, weirdo collector, pay the premium. If you call and talk it over and make an offer, chances are everyone knows what it's worth in a retail environment, and will come to a fair price for everyone

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been stated by more than a couple folks here on these boards that it's OK (and proper) to pay ridiculous prices to Gruhn's (or any other dealer), because they're a "reputable dealer"..., whatever George says must be true.

 

Poppycock!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been stated by more than a couple folks here on these boards that it's OK (and proper) to pay ridiculous prices to Gruhn's (or any other dealer), because they're a "reputable dealer"..., whatever George says must be true.

 

Poppycock!

It's OK for anyone to pay whatever they want.

 

I might add, though, that "asking" is not "selling" price.

 

Might also interject, just because a particular guitar sells for a specific amount, does NOT suddenly make all the others worth that much. Or even that one.

 

Just, one guy paid a lot of money for one guitar. Which is, OK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been stated by more than a couple folks here on these boards that it's OK (and proper) to pay ridiculous prices to Gruhn's (or any other dealer), because they're a "reputable dealer"..., whatever George says must be true.

 

Poppycock!

Once again, you demonstrate no apparent understanding of the vintage guitar market. Nobody here ever said it was proper to pay "ridiculous" prices. That's your usual hyperbole at work. George Gruhn has been successful and well-respected as a vintage guitar dealer for 46 years. 46!! It's kind of difficult to make a business work for that long if you're simply charging "ridiculous" prices for things. There's a thing called a "marketplace", Larry, where people buy and sell. This is how prices are generally determined. You can cry and complain about it, but you're not going to change it. Dealers usually list things for more than they're willing to sell for, in order to try to maximize their profits. Why? Because they're in business to make money. It's a very old system, which you'd think people might understand by 2016. And if you think it's just these "greedy dealers" that work this way, look at how many ebay items listed by private sellers end up selling on the second, third, fourth (etc) attempt, after the seller gradually lowers their price. Either way, if something sells for the initial asking price, that must mean that somebody really thought it was worth that amount. When this happens often enough, these higher prices become established as market values.

 

Having said all that, I am not making any specific observations about the guitar in the OP, as I've never been very interested in flat-tops. If that guitar is ridiculously overpriced, then fair enough. I don't see this happen too often at Gruhn's, and I have no specific explanation as to why it was overpriced. The bottom line is... it will either sell for the "ridiculous" price (thus validating the price to some extent), or the price will drop to some degree before it finally sells. Nobody is being robbed. It's called business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

If that guitar is ridiculously overpriced, then fair enough. I don't see this happen too often at Gruhn's, and I have no specific explanation as to why it was overpriced. the bottom line is... it will either sell for the "ridiculous" price (thus validating the price to some extent), or the price will drop to some degree before it finally sells. Nobody is being robbed. It's called business.

I think that's the point. This guitar isn't worth that. The purchase price and the list of work needed exceeds the "value" of the guitar, by quite a bit.

 

The warning here, is that just because they are a respected appraiser, doesn't mean they are SELLING stuff for what they might professionally appraise it for. At least not this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's hard for any one to fully understand the "vintage market" mystique, moves around like the weather in New England.

 

a few years ago, people WERE paying absurd money (25,000+) for vintage strats and telecasters, ( early 60s late 50s..) they are not fetching that kind of money today. less than half that from what I've seen lately and even still to me, 12~15k is absurd.

 

but they pay it.. if people have that kind of money to toss around great,, so be it.

 

I aint one of em.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's hard for any one to fully understand the "vintage markey" mystique. that market moves around like the weather in New England.

 

a few years ago, people WERE paying absurd money (25,000+) for vintage strats and telecasters, ( early 60s late 50s..) they are not fetching that kind of money today. less than half that from what I've seen lately and even still to me, 12~15k is absurd.

 

but they pay it.. if people have that kind of money to toss around great,, so be it.

 

I aint one of em.

Well, we all know that the market tanked, the bubble busted. Serious correction took place, especially when the economy went south and all those wanting to sell "investments" found out guitars are not investments.

 

Having said that, are you comparing apples to apples? 50's and early 60's Fender prices vary a LOT depending on color. Basically, anything other than a Strat in Sunburst or a Tele in Blonde is in reality quite rare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's hard for any one to fully understand the "vintage market" mystique, moves around like the weather in New England.

 

a few years ago, people WERE paying absurd money (25,000+) for vintage strats and telecasters, ( early 60s late 50s..) they are not fetching that kind of money today. less than half that from what I've seen lately and even still to me, 12~15k is absurd.

 

but they pay it.. if people have that kind of money to toss around great,, so be it.

 

I aint one of em.

You're probably in the majority in terms of your outlook, and there's nothing wrong with feeling that way. What's hard for me to fully understand is people trying to deny reality and act like they're being cheated out of something, or that every high price is based on greed. The reality is, there are a lot of wealthy people out there (many of them overseas, where it used to be very difficult to find the vintage american guitar of one's dreams), who will pay a LOT of money for things. I agree that a lot of the prices are hard to comprehend, but I accept and understand that as reality. I also have never understood the whole "every member of Kiss signed this guitar", so it's worth a fortune even though it was made in Korea five years ago. I think people go overboard with the "celebrity-owned" thing, too. But I accept all of that as reality, and I ignore it. I've never paid much more than $10,000 for a guitar, but on the other hand, I've sold them for as much as $25,000. It's hard to complain about that as a seller, and it's also hard to complain about the values of the guitars that one owns (and may not even want to sell) going up, up, up. The guitar I sold for $25K (a clean 1958 Super 400CESN) could easily bring more than that now or in the near future, depending on the market fluctuations. It makes sense to me, because guitars like that have always been desirable and are in very limited supply. I "get it" that a lot of people object to high prices, and would not (or could not) ever pay those prices, but that's life. We can't always afford the most expensive things, but that doesn't mean that people are always pricing things unfairly. Life isn't "fair" to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, we all know that the market tanked, the bubble busted. Serious correction took place, especially when the economy went south and all those wanting to sell "investments" found out guitars are not investments.

I disagree. Guitars (vintage in particular) are most definitely investments. Not necessarily the best investments relative to other things, but still investments. No different from art or antiques. One major downturn in the market doesn't suddenly change things forever. The "correction" was primarily based on the economy going south, and if you look at what's been going on in recent years, things are rebounding to some degree. There's been less activity in the market due to uncertainties (and perhaps a decreased demand for some things), but that can work both ways in terms of prices going up or down in the future. I think the "blue chip" stuff will tend to continue to go up in value over time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...