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1957 J50? $500 w/ case - New top? Odd guitar


bostongibber99

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Hello Everyone - I'm new to the forum but a long time Gibson player.

 

Long story short - I see this guitar at a local swap shop for $500 this weekend.

I go to look at it, and it's listed as a "J-45" and nothing else. Talking to the manager they say they think it's a '57 and feel pretty strongly that it's not fake.

The person trading it in, told them the top had been replaced - "with a martin top". Ok. I've never heard of being able to do that.

 

Bottom line - the guitar sounds very good. It has a J45 sound and clearly a lot of this guitar is quite old. The crazing on the back of the headstock looks good.

But, this thing is a player road warrior instrument which has been played a lot and someone modified it in a careful but rather drastic way.

 

The tuners are klusons and I think are 80's. I see the original tuner mount holes and indentation in the finish coat. The headstock appears to me to have had the black paint removed so you see a newer wood.

It's been debranded from the head and the inner sticker removed?

 

The top of the guitar has a non original bridge and the binding on the edges are really well done - but are herringbone to match the similar rosette. None of that is Gibson, and at least not original.

I've seen a modern j45 that has matching binding. Perhaps they used modern Gibson binding to put this back together. The pickguard is 3 ply, and seems much newer than 57, maybe 80's or not sure.

 

But, the case is legit. It's a real 50's case, and in decent condition with Gibson logo on the inside box.

 

The serial number is not on the head, but inside the body where the neck meets the body in blue stamped dye. It's got a "U" at the beginning which is '57 from what i can tell.

 

It plays very nice and the DGB strings are very articulate and sound beautiful.

Overall it sounds like a J45 to me, I've played some 60's ones.

 

What is this thing?

 

It was just too bizarre and sounded too good so I bought it. But, I never buy things like this, it just kind of got into my brain. I'm sure you can understand.

 

Confused in Boston!...

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J50 was the natural finish - so not sure why they listed it as J45.

 

Why someone would de-badge a guitar like this I really can't explain.

Based on the wear, it looks like it's been played a lot - and I mean an awful lot.

 

Maybe it was someone's stage guitar and they didn't want it to say Gibson on it.

To do the work that was done on it, the way it was done doesn't make much sense unless a real player was using it.

 

It just wouldn't be worth it - IMHO.

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Hey! I was just thinking about removing the pickguard. I was reading an article on stewmac about it.

 

Have you done it before?

 

They used a desklamp to warm the guard and the glue - and carefully worked a special knife in there...

 

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Pickguard_Making_and_Repair/Removing_a_pickguard_easy_way_and_hard_way.html

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I have done it, but wouldn't attempt it ever again. I pulled the same style guard off my '56 J45. They are known to shrink and crack the top along the inside edge from bridge to fret board. Yours might be a recent addition, which means perhaps there hasn't been time enough to keep light from changing the color beneath it. That thick one sure won't be shrinking in your lifetime. If there had been a guard on for years prior you would have to deal with discoloration.

 

For the little cost, I would take it to my luthier. By the time Stewmac sends the knife, which you'll never use again, your guitar shop will either have it off and cleaned up, or reglued to hide the nightmare removing it reveals. If there are cosmetic issues underneath he'll stop right there and let you decide. Who knows, it might be messy under there and a pro would know better about how it might clean up. If it seems to be new looking it's worth a try to see if it just pops off w/o a lot of glue residue.

 

It does have the belly-down Martin bridge orientation and there doesn't seem to be any residue from a replacement. Who knows though, where that top came from. It must be damn good stuff based on your description of the tone.

 

I like 'em naked on top.

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Yeah, if it were mine, the guard would get changed for sure. I'd use the existing guard as a template and replace it with one of the same size and shape cut from the thinnest stock I could find. Have done a few without difficulties arising and see no reason you can't do the same as long as you take your time. If the thing is glued to the top finish and not to bare wood, there'll likely be a lighter area beneath it which doesn't matter if your replacement corresponds to the size and shape of the original.

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I removed the guard last night - it came off pretty well.

I just heated it a bit with an air gun and used a thin plastic edge I had for some other project that helped to shield the heat.

 

It really does sound a lot better with it removed as the guard was thick and very large and just stuck to 20% of the top.

 

I have a small spot where a little laquer came off but I can fix that and this guitar is pretty road worn anyway so it looks consistent.

 

The serial - btw for this is:

 

U309030

 

If anyone know's much if that means anything beyond the "U" designation I read about - I"d love to know.

Thank you for the advice.

 

- Jay

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Hey guys - the guard got pretty mangled when I removed it from the heat.

I know it's not vintage so I didn't treat it too well.

 

I really like it without the pickguard it sounds much better and more resonate now. You can humm at the thing and feel the top vibrating...

I'm getting romantic with this guitar, it's just so odd but good.

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Beautiful! I had the guard removed from my '31 L0 and am currently removing one from my latest NGD, a '61 Martin. I would have my L00's taken off too but it's the original super thin firestripe, 1935, and I don't want to hurt the vintage value. If I ever buy a new acoustic, I'll order it w/o. I feel they are unnecessary, unless you wail on it, and the top looks and sounds better without one.

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Pick guards should be sold as an option, not as a standard feature. Tone woods are perfection in their raw state and grading experts study and buy the samples for sound qualities and subtleties. To slap a piece of plastic on and interfere with the physics seems dopey.

 

OK OK...time for my meds.

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