In the spirit of Sal's recent thread...

[Lars68]

Friends, like Sal I have this song I'm working on. As some of you know, songwriting is new to me, as is singing. I have done eight songs so far with varying success. With this new one, I thought I should start by coming up with some music and see if the words would happen. At this point I don't even know if the chords are in key.

 

I have been on a big Townes Van Zandt binge trip recently. A few days ago when I was toying around with the guitar trying to come up with something, I put the capo on the second fret and hit an Am, and it sounded like a TVZ song

 

I then got an autobiographical topic in mind and got a few lines down. The take below is my second time singing it, so pitch is off but I hear the melody in my head quite well. I am now struggling with some kind of chorus/variation. I will see what happens.

 

Posting less than perfect works in progress has never bothered me, so here it goes... (tentatively titled "Red Dirt of Dixie).

 

Updated: added sort of a chorus and som more lyrics. Do you guys think this could work once I improve the pitch and timing etc?

 

https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/red-dirt-of-dixie-version-2

 

Feedback and suggestions are welcome, and don't be afraid to be hard on me!

 

Lars

[Lars68]

Updated the link above with a more complete version.

 

Lars

[MissouriPicker]

Lars, I think it's fine if you are going to perform it for others at home or even at a public venue. It's a good personal story. And I like the guitar playing. I particularly like that little riff you play between chords/verses.... I think (from my viewpoint) what you have to do is decide what kind of songs you want to write and perform (assuming you'll play public shows somewhere along the line). Only you can decide that. To me, you're a ballad singer, at least from what I've heard. You're tone could be a little more up-tempo at times. Not all ballads are slow and not all ballads are 4/4 time. Also, when writing songs, look for ways to vary the melodies from one song to another. If you write a lot of your own material, it's real easy (for me) to write something new and then realize it's very similar to something I'd written before. That's not a song killer, but I try to mix chords up and almost always look for a different melody. It doesn't always work 100%, but even if one uses a similar chord progression in several songs, you can still vary the melody within those progressions. There are only so many chord progressions and they've all been used before many times. It's up to us to find our own individuality within those progressions. Look at Townes Van Zandt's music. Really easy-going chords and melodies throughout all of his songs, but literally each song is different. Lots of I IV V progression songs, but he'll throw in a relative minor at times to make a difference, or he'll for example stay on a chord for longer than typically done as he takes the melody somewhere else. He was also good at throwing in a II chord. For example, he'd use a D/D7 somewhere in a CFG progression. Certainly not unheard of, but it changed the direction of the melody if he needed it. Cash did that quite-a-bit too. Look at the songs of the songwriters you like. Find how they varied the melody of their songs, many which often shared a very similar or identical progressions,. Pretty basic, but so well put-together........None of this is foolproof. It's just kind of the way I do things. I try to get ideas from guys like Townes, Cash, Dylan, Prine. John Prine might write the most simply constructed songs of all and they're so damn good and different from each other.

[Lars68]

Larry, thanks so much for your input! When it comes to songwriting I have so much left to learn. I have nine songs now, all but one done in the last 10 months or so. Writing really facinates me. Yesterday this song posted above was just a concept in my head, now a couple of hours later it is a recorded song, although a crude one at this point, but still a song I wrote. I find that incredibly inspiring. I don't know much theory, and don't really follow along with your pointers regarding chord theory. Makes me think a music theory class would do me well at some point. I really, REALLY, don't know what I'm doing. I just go by gut feeling.

 

I think my biggest issues are pitch control and musical variation. The songs just seem to flow along at their respective repeating patterns. I need to learn to take them on detours. Coming up with ideas and lyrics is the easiest part. It tends to come to me without much effort, for whatever that's worth.

 

It would be wonderful to some day be able to play for family and friends, or even out publically, but I seriously doubt that I have it in me.

Larry, you ask were I want to take my songwriting, and to be honest I have no clue. Ballads are were my heart is, I guess. It 's the kind of music I prefer listening to myself the most. A Springsteen quote kind of sums it up. " More than I wanted to be famous, and more than I wanted to be rich, I wanted to be great."

 

There is only one way to get there. One song at a time!

 

Lars

[MorrisrownSal]

Lars,

I haven't listened yet. Recovering from a long weekend ...gulp.

I just didn't want you to think I didn't see the thread.... Getting to it!

[Lars68]

Lars,

I haven't listened yet. Recovering from a long weekend ...gulp.

I just didn't want you to think I didn't see the thread.... Getting to it!

 

No worries, Sal! Just like in your thread I asked for advice on finishing my song. Then I went ahead and completed it the next day. I guess I didn't really play along by your rules...

 

Lars

[MissouriPicker]

Don't sweat the rules, Lars. They're often best when broken. Had Townes Van Zandt lived a pure and demon-free life, we'd have never heard all of his demons screaming-out in his songs. You've got to be who you've got to be. Just keep writing. Even if it doesn't fit what you're mainly focused on at the time, write it down anyway. You might be able to use it at another time.

[Avery]

Good one, Lars!

 

I have listened to a lot of your songs and this one is one my favorites of yours. I like the little instrumental opening and closing you do on the guitar.

 

I also liked that this song has a verse and chorus structure. Not that you have do always do that, of course not, but it is something I liked here.

 

To my ears you are doing a really solid job staying on pitch as well.

 

Maybe think about adding another line to the chorus? It's fine the way it is, but I know I'd like another. Ends a little abruptly, maybe?

 

Which one of your Gibsons are you using here? Or is is the D18 again. The guitar here records very nicely.

[Lars68]

Good one, Lars!

 

I have listened to a lot of your songs and this one is one my favorites of yours. I like the little instrumental opening and closing you do on the guitar.

 

I also liked that this song has a verse and chorus structure. Not that you have do always do that, of course not, but it is something I liked here.

 

To my ears you are doing a really solid job staying on pitch as well.

 

Maybe think about adding another line to the chorus? It's fine the way it is, but I know I'd like another. Ends a little abruptly, maybe?

 

Which one of your Gibsons are you using here? Or is is the D18 again. The guitar here records very nicely.

 

 

Thanks for the input and support, Avery! I agree with everything you suggest about extending the chorus and the ending. I did most of it yesterday and I wanted to record my ideas before I lost them (which has happened to me a lot..). I think the song needs another verse/chorus too.

 

Doing this song has been very different from the others. Normally, I spend some hours writing the song and then it takes me literally weeks of trying, on and off, to get a decent performance recorded. I usually struggle with pitch. This time the song came fast and so did the recording, and like you say, the pitch this time is decent. The posted take was actually my first complete run through after writing it. This is very encouraging for me, since the process of matching the song in my head to what comes out in the recording is very close to what I wanted.

 

The guitar is the Martin, by the way. I tend to like it the best for palm muted chording. It gives that low end thump that I like from the bass strings.

 

Lars

[Murph]

Don't sweat the rules, Lars. They're often best when broken. Had Townes Van Zandt lived a pure and demon-free life, we'd have never heard all of his demons screaming-out in his songs.

 

 

Bingo.

 

Rule # 1.

 

There are no rules.....

[Avery]

Hey Lars,

I was just referring to the chorus which I felt could use another line. Didn't think the ending was abrupt.

 

I also want to say that it is always very nice to hear you produce original material, and see your creative process in action. It is great to see you tell so many different stories in each of your new songs!

[Lars68]

Hey Lars,

I was just referring to the chorus which I felt could use another line. Didn't think the ending was abrupt.

 

I also want to say that it is always very nice to hear you produce original material, and see your creative process in action. It is great to see you tell so many different stories in each of your new songs!

 

Yes, the chorus goes away a little too fast perhaps. I ran out of words...

 

As for writing the songs, I have noticed that once I have an idea or concept for a song that I'm excited about, the song comes fast, often in a couple of hours. I can't sit down with the guitar with a blank paper. It doesn't work. Before this song, I went for about two weeks without touching a guitar. I guess I need a purpose, or a goal, in order to pick it up.

 

I encourage everyone who hasn't tried, to start writing their own songs. It is extremely satisfying. It also gives me so much more freedom, since I'm not copying something that has already been done. I can stay within my own capabilities, and if it sounds good to me, I keep it

 

When doing versions of other people's songs, I always fell short because my limited singing and playing just made me a pale imitation of the original. Now when writing myself, those shortcomings don't matter much to me anymore. I can be greatly satisfied by the songwriting alone. If I manage to perform a decent version and record it, well then it comes as an added bonus.

 

Lars

[Lars68]

I have been practicing my song a bit and come up with a new version I'm very happy with. Still a few sour notes, but by my shakey standards a big improvement as far as the singing. I also added a new chord to the chorus, which I think is for the better.

 

https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/red-dirt-of-dixie-version-2

 

The race is not to the swift...

 

Lars

 

P.S. if any of you get tired of my posts with ever changing versions of my simple tunes, don't be afraid to give me a cyber smack right on top of my headstock...

[Avery]

Hey, I am liking this song, Lars, thanks for sharing again. I did notice the slight change in the chorus, like it too.

 

You don't have to be apologetic about pitch: I think you are doing a fine job, and really a remarkable bit of growth from some of your earlier ones regarding pitch.

 

Some cool bits of guitar playing. I also like the melody, in the chorus particularly, and throughout too.

 

I am often amazed when reading about and watching some of the pros talk about melody and songwriting and listening to great songs of course...about how a melody has a beginning, middle and end. Say, how there is tension, how one part of a melody leads to another etc. resolves that tension...which you do a fine job at, no doubt...

 

But what I am trying to say, I guess, is that I would be intrigued to see how somebody really experienced would tinker around with this song. Because I think it's got great promise, but I think it could be fleshed out even further. (No doubt it is fine as is too). Anyway enough rambling...thanks for sharing and keep posting your originals.

[Lars68]

But what I am trying to say, I guess, is that I would be intrigued to see how somebody really experienced would tinker around with this song. Because I think it's got great promise, but I think it could be fleshed out even further. (No doubt it is fine as is too). Anyway enough rambling...thanks for sharing and keep posting your originals.

 

Yes, it would be extremely interesting to see what a pro would add/subtract. I agree with what you said earlier about extending the chorus a line or too, but a pro would probably see several other possible improvements as well.

 

Anne, whenever you have the time...

 

Lars

[EuroAussie]

I didnt listen to the first version Lars as you wrote this is your preferred effort so I will go on this.

 

First on whats good I think you are doing a much better job in hitting the notes and your pitch challenges are getting addressed. I also liked the overall feel or flavour of the song, but I think your biggest challenge with this song is finding a way to keep a level of engagement with the audience through the whole song.

 

What I mean by that is the song has quite a melancholy feel and both the vocals and guitar playing have a melancholy feel. Which Is OK, but you need to find ways to have a few twists and turns to keep the listener egnaged through out the whole song otherwise it can sound rather 'flat' and it can be a challenge to listen right through.

 

This can be done through the guitar playing through chord selection, rhythm variation or dynamics in terms of volume and projection. Voice is the second one, which again, i encurage you to try to find more bass in your voice as i think your songs really need a deeper voice to find the mood. This also would allow to the listener to enjoy more dynamics in your singing and overall have a more rewarding expereince with the song, which no doubt would be your intention.

 

I strongly suggest Brett Manning's Singing Success if you would like to build up your voice, its absilutely brilliant and assumes the student is an absolute beginner and teaches you both ways to strengthen your voice but also focus on style, mix etc

 

EA

[Lars68]

EA, the supportive attitude and comments like yours are the main reason for me posting my efforts here on the forum. They help me improve. I tend to lose objectivity when working on my tunes, and focus on the wrong things.

 

Forum friends, y'all (a term I picked up from The Red Dirt of Dixie... ) deserve my sinsere thanks for all input and help along this exciting journey.

 

Lars