Michael Breeman Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Since about 1978 I have owned a Gibson ES355TD S/N0. 42661, looking at various sites I believe this guitar was made 1968 in Kalamazoo. How do I verify this and also as the scratchplate/pick-guard has completely disintegrated where could an original specification item be purchased. The pick-guard is rather unusual as it is a tortoise-shell main section with a 5 ply binding. Currently I have a short type multi layer pick-guard fitted but would like to have something more original in place. Cheers and thanks in advance for any and all assistance. Mike from Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Mike, If the serial number is pressed into the wood on the back of the headstock, The Guitar Dater Project database advises that your ES355TD was made at the Gibson plant in Kalamazoo, Michigan in or around 1962. Can you post a few photos of that old beauty? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 That serial number should be from fairly early in 1962. There should be an orange oval label visible through the bass-side F-hole. If it is not there, it is possible there is glue residue showing where it originally was. The number should also be impressed in the back of the headstock, as Sparky says. Photos of the back of the headstock and the front of the guitar would be useful. A total or about 220 ES-355's were shipped in 1962. Depending on condition, that could be a fairly valuable guitar, although the fancier 355 from this period is ironically typically les valuable than the plainer 335. If it is possible to provided a photograph of the original pickguard, that would be useful. I'm not sure how common celluloid (which is what your original sounds like)pickguards were on ES-series guitars in 1962. It may be that your 355 had a fancier guard, but most you see by 1962 had the shorter black/white Royalite guard like that on the 335, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 Mike, If the serial number is pressed into the wood on the back of the headstock, The Guitar Dater Project database advises that your ES355TD was made at the Gibson plant in Kalamazoo, Michigan in or around 1962. Can you post a few photos of that old beauty? :) Hi Guys, thanks so much for your replies. Attached are a few photos of this beautiful guitar, and as you can see it hasn't been played much by me or the previous owner who told me he purchased it new in Sydney. If my memory serves me right I believe he told me that the pic-ups were potted to prevent excessive feedbac which in 60s/70s wasn't all that popular especially as he was a jazz player. Looking forward to more and any information. Cheers and thanks, Mike PS Sorry guys but I was only allowed to attach one file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 That serial number should be from fairly early in 1962. There should be an orange oval label visible through the bass-side F-hole. If it is not there, it is possible there is glue residue showing where it originally was. The number should also be impressed in the back of the headstock, as Sparky says. Photos of the back of the headstock and the front of the guitar would be useful. A total or about 220 ES-355's were shipped in 1962. Depending on condition, that could be a fairly valuable guitar, although the fancier 355 from this period is ironically typically les valuable than the plainer 335. If it is possible to provided a photograph of the original pickguard, that would be useful. I'm not sure how common celluloid (which is what your original sounds like)pickguards were on ES-series guitars in 1962. It may be that your 355 had a fancier guard, but most you see by 1962 had the shorter black/white Royalite guard like that on the 335, I believe. Hi Guys, hope this works! The serial number is stamped on the back of the headstock and attached are photos which may be helpful to you in answering my query. Guitar is a dream to play although I haven't played it for many years, guess I'm a Stratocaster type of guy. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 What a terrific old guitar! Man, I love it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Hi Most people post pics by uploading to a Photobucket account (free) then pasting the link in; easier than it sounds. The label inside doesn't look orange (from what I can see) and obviously the TP6 fine tuning tailpiece is from the Norlin era. Which would make it more likely to be 1968 IMO....but I'm not one of the experts here - hope they will chime in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Indeed, hardware and knobs and label (if that is what I can see) point away from 1962. Also, it shows the pointy horns, as opposed to the "micky mouse" horns of earlier 335's/355's. When did that start? I'm guessing '64? (somebody knows...I just can't remember). I can't tell if it's walnut or black in the photo on my cheap, old laptop. Could be cigarette smoke on the screen. Or it could be my subconscious thinking '68 and making my eyes see walnut. My gut tells me "Guitar Dater" is wrong more than right. A deep lol from the inside for an inside joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 The TP-6 tailpiece and the "amp" knobs date this guitar to much later than '62. These were both late 60's/early 70's features. This would lead me to believe that the 5-digit serial number is really 6-digits with the 6th number impressed so lightly into the wood it is not visible to the naked eye. This was fairly common with the die stamped serial numbers. There are ways to verify this, such as doing a pencil rubbing or shadow test. Other helpful information would be the existence, or not, of a "Made In USA" stamp and/or headstock "volute". Then, of course, there are the potentiometer codes to add further pieces to the puzzle. Dating aside, your bound pickguard search may be a problem. The only aftermarket bound pickguard as you describe, that I know of, will be made for an L-5C. I just did a tracing of the pickguard on my L-5CES and compared it to the one on my ES-345. It WILL work, but being a little longer, will give more of the look of the "long guard" late 50's style. Not necessarily a bad thing. I have considered converting my 345 over to the "long guard". You will have to notch it for the pickup cutouts. An "Allparts" branded L-5C bound pickguard is available from many retailers. I have used these and found them to be of equal or greater quality than Gibson originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 The TP-6 tailpiece and the "amp" knobs date this guitar to much later than '62. These were both late 60's/early 70's features. This would lead me to believe that the 5-digit serial number is really 6-digits with the 6th number impressed so lightly into the wood it is not visible to the naked eye. This was fairly common with the die stamped serial numbers. There are ways to verify this, such as doing a pencil rubbing or shadow test. Other helpful information would be the existence, or not, of a "Made In USA" stamp and/or headstock "volute". Then, of course, there are the potentiometer codes to add further pieces to the puzzle. Dating aside, your bound pickguard search may be a problem. The only aftermarket bound pickguard as you describe, that I know of, will be made for an L-5C. I just did a tracing of the pickguard on my L-5CES and compared it to the one on my ES-345. It WILL work, but being a little longer, will give more of the look of the "long guard" late 50's style. Not necessarily a bad thing. I have considered converting my 345 over to the "long guard". You will have to notch it for the pickup cutouts. An "Allparts" branded L-5C bound pickguard is available from many retailers. I have used these and found them to be of equal or greater quality than Gibson originals. Larry is right. The physical characteristics shown are not of a 1962 guitar, so there must be a number missing in the serial number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 Indeed, hardware and knobs and label (if that is what I can see) point away from 1962. Also, it shows the pointy horns, as opposed to the "micky mouse" horns of earlier 335's/355's. When did that start? I'm guessing '64? (somebody knows...I just can't remember). I can't tell if it's walnut or black in the photo on my cheap, old laptop. Could be cigarette smoke on the screen. Or it could be my subconscious thinking '68 and making my eyes see walnut. My gut tells me "Guitar Dater" is wrong more than right. A deep lol from the inside for an inside joke. Hi the colour is walnut and the wood shows the grain really well (very figured if that's the correct word?). There is slight deterioration of the outer coat of finish but that is only under the pick-guard. Please also read my other replies. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 The TP-6 tailpiece and the "amp" knobs date this guitar to much later than '62. These were both late 60's/early 70's features. This would lead me to believe that the 5-digit serial number is really 6-digits with the 6th number impressed so lightly into the wood it is not visible to the naked eye. This was fairly common with the die stamped serial numbers. There are ways to verify this, such as doing a pencil rubbing or shadow test. Other helpful information would be the existence, or not, of a "Made In USA" stamp and/or headstock "volute". Then, of course, there are the potentiometer codes to add further pieces to the puzzle. Dating aside, your bound pickguard search may be a problem. The only aftermarket bound pickguard as you describe, that I know of, will be made for an L-5C. I just did a tracing of the pickguard on my L-5CES and compared it to the one on my ES-345. It WILL work, but being a little longer, will give more of the look of the "long guard" late 50's style. Not necessarily a bad thing. I have considered converting my 345 over to the "long guard". You will have to notch it for the pickup cutouts. An "Allparts" branded L-5C bound pickguard is available from many retailers. I have used these and found them to be of equal or greater quality than Gibson originals. I can definitely say that the serial number as I have noted is correct, there is not the slightest hint of a missing number with the numbers deeply impressed into the wood. But guess what? there is a slight impression of "second" very lightly impressed about an inch below the serial number. Thanks for the info re the pickguard, I will look into that soon, also the pick guard (replacement) as shown in my photo is actually a "short" type which I purchased in the USA on one of my visits. The original pickguard was a longer than the replacement. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 Hi Most people post pics by uploading to a Photobucket account (free) then pasting the link in; easier than it sounds. The label inside doesn't look orange (from what I can see) and obviously the TP6 fine tuning tailpiece is from the Norlin era. Which would make it more likely to be 1968 IMO....but I'm not one of the experts here - hope they will chime in? Hi, thanks for your reply. The label is a light purple in colour, certainly not orange. The tailpiece could be of a later Les Paul which I also own or from a previous guitar which I don't now own. I also have a similar tailpiece which is more tarnished but as the bridge appears to be in good condition I believe I have the correct tailpiece in place. Will check my Les Paul when I get a minute. Cheers Mike PS my next query will be dating my Les Paul and also my ES175 but will leave them to a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Hi, thanks for your reply. The label is a light purple in colour, certainly not orange. . Does the label look like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Does the label look like this? Similar in colour, but on the LHS it says "model" and then on the RHS it says ES355TD, this is all printed not hand written. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerwagonjohn Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 When did they stop putting the output jack on the face of the guitar? Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Similar in colour, but on the LHS it says "model" and then on the RHS it says ES355TD, this is all printed not hand written. Thanks, Mike Is the center part of the label the same physical layout--that is, divided into four triangular parts, with black triangle at top, purple at bottom, and white on sides, like this one? If possible take a picture and post it, even if you can't get the entire label in. Knowing the details of the label is very helpful for the timeline, since Gibson changed labels at pretty well established times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Is the center part of the label the same physical layout--that is, divided into four triangular parts, with black triangle at top, purple at bottom, and white on sides, like this one? If possible take a picture and post it, even if you can't get the entire label in. Knowing the details of the label is very helpful for the timeline, since Gibson changed labels at pretty well established times. Hi Guys, sorry for the poor quality of the photos. Yes the label is divided into four triangular parts, also it has two output jacks mounted on the lower edge ( not on the face of the body) just below the volume/tone controls but I believe this is common practice on many Gibson guitars. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Gibson started using that label in 1970, which is consistent with the other physical characteristics of the guitar, so the guitar is probably no earlier than 1970. I have no idea why it seems to have a five-digit serial number, which would suggest an earlier date, unless the operator of the stamping machine neglected to set up one of the wheels when stamping the number. Before that (in that era), it was the oval orange label, but they stopped using that after 1969. I don't know the exact date in 1969-1970 when the switch was made. It's conceivable--though I have no evidence to support it--that this serial number anomaly resulted in the "second" designation. "Seconds" are generally guitars with cosmetic flaws. Not sure I've ever seen an ES-355 "second" before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 When did they stop putting the output jack on the face of the guitar? This is an interesting and probably significant point. The OP also now adds that it has dual jacks on the rim. I've never seen this on a Norlin era 355 before, I thought this was a recent Memphis mod. The "second" stamp is insignificant as far as this general discussion. I would say we're down to potentiometer codes on this one boys and girls. To Michael Breeman: Get a dental type mirror (Inspection mirror) and a small flashlight. Stick the mirror into the bass side f-hole. Shine the flashlight into the mirror to reflect the light onto the bottom of the pots, adjust mirror and flashlight as needed. Look for a 7-digit number on the bottom of the pots that starts with "137". The next four digits are what's really important, the year and week the pots were manufactured. The code format is as follows: MMMYYWW MMM = Manufacturer, 137 is the code for CTS Corp. YY = the last two digits of the year of manufacture WW = the week (01-52) of that year. Has there been confirmation of the existance (or not) of a "Made In USA" stamp or volute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Has there been confirmation of the existance (or not) of a "Made In USA" stamp or volute? No. That's the reason I wanted a picture of the back of the headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 The TP-6 tailpiece and the "amp" knobs date this guitar to much later than '62. These were both late 60's/early 70's features. I was under the impression that the TP6 tailpiece was introduced in 1978. Definitely NOT "late 60's", at any rate. The rectangular white/purple label in question was used from 1970 until 1983, so I would put this guitar in the 1978 to 1983 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Breeman Posted May 7, 2016 Author Share Posted May 7, 2016 I was under the impression that the TP6 tailpiece was introduced in 1978. Definitely NOT "late 60's", at any rate. The rectangular white/purple label in question was used from 1970 until 1983, so I would put this guitar in the 1978 to 1983 range. Hi Guys, had a local guitar repairer look at the ES355 and he is sure (100%) that the serial number has not been altered and is as it left the factory. I can also say without doubt that the guitar was purchased by me in the early 70s, from recollection between 72 and 74 and that the seller stated that the guitar was bought in Sydney Australia in the 60s. I always believed it was a 68 model but could not confirm that thus my query on this forum. The output jacks (two) consist of one mono and one stereo,these are mounted directly into the wood of the guitar without the surrounds which are common on many guitars. The headstock also has "stereo" on the truss rod cover and utilizes gold coloured "Gibson" tuners. Well, that's about all I can post about the guitar, it is a dream to play with very low action, a nice small neck with next to no wear on the frets, it has a tone to die for - years ago when I played it through a Fender Twin Reverb (135W Silver Face with master volume)it sounded just great. I'd like to sincerely thank you all for your comments and am looking forward to your assistance when I again post on this forum re my ES175. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 All we still have here is "he said, she said". I'm still curious about potentiometer codes, which is a hard documentation. As many of us here have made the time and effort in this thread for the OP, I would like to see the OP make the time and effort to retrieve and furnish the potentiometer codes, verify the existance (or not) of a "Made In USA" stamp and/or headstock volute. There is no way to put an accurate (and truthful) mfg date on this guitar without this information. Or...... is this a case of not wanting to know the facts, as it might contradict the legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I think what we have here, is a modified guitar. We might need a lot more than pot codes. We know the pups were potted, and it's possible the TP-6 was swapped from the owners admission. I just now realized we don't have a varitone switch on this baby. I don't recall a stereo ES-345/355 without one. Is that correct? How would this be wired? If any or all this is true, it means it's possible just the tailpiece was changed, or it could mean everything was changed, maybe just a jack added, maybe all new pups electronics and hardware. We would have to know exactly what they are (pot codes and pup type) to even determine if they belong on the guitar, let alone date it with them. So far, what we really have is the label and the walnut color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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