gruffydd3 Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I have a new 2016 Firebird that I can't get the action as low on as my other guitars. I've adjusted the truss rod as far as I can without it being loose, but there still isn't enough relief. If I could get just a little more, I could lower the bridge a bit and it would be perfect. Is there anything that can be done to improve the action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 What relief do you actually find at the 6th fret with the guitar in playing position, when fretting same time, possibly capoing, at 1st fret, and 14th fret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I usually set the neck relief 1st between .000-.005 by capoing as stated above. Then adjust the saddles to get what I want at the 12th fret. Electrics can usually be set fairly low. I usually go .060" for the bass E to .040" for the treble. Then I look at the nut. I usually set the string height at the 1st fret at .022" for the bass E to .012" for the treble. That's just my preference. I'm really not into fixing problems so if I have a twist or high frets I send it to my luthier. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruffydd3 Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 I don't have anything to measure relief, but at the sixth fret it's about half the thickness of a medium pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I don't have anything to measure relief, but at the sixth fret it's about half the thickness of a medium pick. Hello. Well, if You haven't got a notched straight-edge, it is impossible to set the relief accurately. If You are using a string as a ruler, You will mislead Yourself. The wear on the frets will result a false reading. However, You could approach it from this perspective: set the string height at the bridge (and at the nut), and loosen the truss rod nut until the guitar doesn't buzzes anymore. Usually, an 8th of turn shall be enough. Bence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruffydd3 Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 There is no wear on the frets. The guitar is brand new. As I said in my original post, I've loosened the rod as far as it will go without being loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I could be mis-reading this, from your description of the problem and desired results, you are going the wrong way. you want LESS relief (A straighter neck) not more relief (which = more bow) results in higher action. tighten the truss rod (righty-tighty) about a half a turn to maybe a full turn since you've been actually loosening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Alright. I had this issue on my L6S. What I did is loosened the nut entirely. Then, while adding relief by hand, tightened the nut. Good luck... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I don't have anything to measure relief, but at the sixth fret it's about half the thickness of a medium pick. This reads more like the relief required for an electric bass guitar. The thickness of a common piece of paper would be appropriate for a guitar, or at least is on all of mine. I could be mis-reading this, from your description of the problem and desired results, you are going the wrong way. you want LESS relief (A straighter neck) not more relief (which = more bow) results in higher action. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 1:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I have owned a Firebird V for the last several years and it has been stable from new for that period... IMO adjustment of the truss rod is generally a last resort after bridge and saddle height have been optimised Many very experienced professional players take their brand new guitars to a knowledgeable technician for a 'once over' Temperature and Humidity play a part in neck stability A new guitar will settle in to it's new home over a period of months, even years A Firebird is a wonderful thing and if cherished the 'thru' neck' should remain stable for a long ownership.... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 well, honestly folks sighting relief in a neck is quite simple and it is not really a big deal either way as long as you know the basic rules. this should not typically require a drive to a repair guy unless you have too much relief, and the nut is 100% cranked down. (THEN! By all means go some where with it) Knowing WHEN a slight adjust is needed is key, change in seasons is typically when this will surface the most. I've been doing this for so long now I can feel precisely when one of mine need it, and it's almost always never more than 1/4 to 1/2 turn. I am still not sure that our original poster is taking the right approach to this. add relief is not going to bring the action down... get the neck as straight as you like, then use the bridge and measure the action at the 12th fret. too little relief and your going to get fret buzzin on the first 2 or three frets. too much relief and the action is going to feel really spongy in the middle of the neck. for a low action ball park, look for something around 4/64s, or 3/64s (Low E, 3/64s or 2/64s (high E) at the 12th fret, if your frets are properly leveled already (which is rare from the factory,, plek or no plek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruffydd3 Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 And that is exactly the problem. I had buzz on the first few frets and even a little on open strings. I've had to raise the bridge a good bit to get rid of it because I can't add more relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 And that is exactly the problem. I had buzz on the first few frets and even a little on open strings. I've had to raise the bridge a good bit to get rid of it because I can't add more relief. Adding more relief may increase buzz on the first frets. The strings may lack downforce at the frets, causing buzz at the fret they are fretted at, not at subsequent ones. The lower the fret wire, the bigger the possible problem, but higher fret wire is also not a universal remedy since proper intonation will limit fretting forces. Three SGs of mine do feature very low "fretless wonder" frets, and they allow for slightly softer picking compared to others. I also have more intense contact to the fretboard wood on them. There's always a trade-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 hmm, adding more relief should help to reduce that. have you checked the string height at the first fret? what gauge strings are you using? could be the nut is slotted too deep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruffydd3 Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 As I keep saying, I can't add any more relief. The rod is backed off as far as it will go without the nut being loose. String height at first fret is fine. I'm using the hybrid 9-46 strings that came on the guitar new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Slight disclaimer here, as it usually is hard to tell what really is going on with a set-up over the net. But judging from what you have said, it really does sound like you need more relief. Only things I can think of to get more is loosen the rod, and flex the neck a bit, just in case the rod my be stuck. Be advised you are on your own there, as you have to judge how much pressure you can apply before you break something. The other is heavier strings, go up at LEAST a gauge. You might spend the few bucks on a set of 11's and string it up to see if that doesn't give you the relief required. The thought is to play it that way for a couple days and see if when returning to your normal gauge it doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 String height at first fret is fine. an actual measurement would help us determine if your nut slots are too low which is going to give you the problem you seem to be explaining. and what do you have for a fret to bottom of string height at the 12th fret on both low e and high e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 As I keep saying, I can't add any more relief. yep I get it, as said it's a bit of challenge to diagnose with out any visuals. String height at first fret is fine. Here, an actual measurement would help us determine if your nut slots are too low which is going to give you the problem you seem to be explaining. and what do you have for a fret to bottom of string height at the 12th fret on both low e and high e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 As I keep saying, I can't add any more relief. yep I get it, as said it's a bit of challenge to diagnose with out any visuals. in fact your initial description of the problem was a little confusing, but we're getting a clearer picture as we go on with this thread String height at first fret is fine. Here, an actual measurement would help us determine if your nut slots are too low which is going to give you the problem you seem to be explaining. and what do you have for a fret to bottom of string height at the 12th fret on both low e and high e at the end of the day, I think instead of having us take pop shots at the problem, see if you can find someone to do a setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruffydd3 Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Yes, I think I'm going to take it to my luthier. It's just that I usually do set ups myself. I don't have anything to measure height at first fret, but I have a couple other guitars where it's as low or slightly lower. Just to clarify things, when I bought the Firebird new it was perfect except the action was a little high. I thought I would lower the bridge and all would be well. When I lowered it, I got buzz. Then I checked relief and there was hardly any. I was going to loosen the rod 1/4 turn. I loosened it about an 1/8 of a turn and the nut was loose, so I snugged it up. I raised the bridge back to where it was when I bought it and it's playable but a little higher than my preference. I've never run across a guitar before that only had an 1/8 of a turn left on the rod. If my luthier can't improve it I'll just live with it the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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