Anyone seen a late '70s LP like this?

[gray3021]

Hey all, I've come across a strange Les Paul that I am trying to get information about. It was advertised as a 1978 Standard in original condition (except for tuners) but there are some strange features that make me think it has been refinished, possibly from a 1978 Deluxe. The serial # is 73428xxx. Following are a list of the feature, plus some oddities I have noted.

 

Thanks for any info or help!!!

 

- One piece body, 2-piece bookmatched maple top.

- 3-piece (presumably maple?) neck, with volute. Short tenon.

- No “Made in USA” stamp.

- Serial # indicates production in Nashville on Dec. 8, 1978.

- Although Nashville production, guitar has an original install ABR bridge, not Nashville Tune-o-matic.

- Tailpiece is simply stamped “Made in Germany”.

- Original tuners were probably Klusons, later replaced with Grovers.

- Control cavity plate stamped Nov. (unreadable) 197(unreadable).

- Side of control cavity has a small (1/4”) stamp beneath the finish. Appears to read “FL”.

- Illegible script in pickup cavities beneath the finish.

- T-Top humbuckers are patent-stamped and ink-dated November 27, 1978. They are open coil but appear to have been originally covered.

- 3 pots are CTS and date from late 1978.

- One pot appears to have been replaced with a 500k mini-pot.

- The store stated that they were told that the guitar was a GC exclusive.

 

Oddities:

 

- Non-spec headstock shape. Exactly like a Norlin head for placement of logos, but the upper corners are much less pronounced, like the corners were shaved down and refinished.

- No “Made in U.S.A.” stamp on back of headstock. The stamp is only as deep as the finish, so it should disappear if the head was refinished.

- Paint on the head under the truss rod cover, as if the face of the headstock were repainted.

- ABR bridge, but built in Nashville. Almost unheard of out of Nashville. Evidence of a refinish?

- Pickup routs are not spec. Maybe originally routed for mini-humbuckers?

- 2-piece flamed maple top is very unusual for the period, but not unheard of.

[capmaster]

Hello Gray, welcome to this nice place in the web!

 

First, this Les Paul guitar looks very pretty to me!

 

My overview of Les Paul history is quite limited, so I may only be of help in a few points here.

 

I have seen some Gibsons in the past that for sure weren't refinished but had either soft peghead corners and black finish under the truss-rod cover, including some of mine built between 1973 and 2013. Some of the nut cavities are clear-coated only, some both black and clear, some obviously just satin black. Even some of the nuts show black finish at what probably has been the upper half during finishing.

 

The "MADE IN U.S.A." stamp is pretty faint on some peghead backs, in particular on late-1970's and early-1980's Gibsons I got to know including the 1978 S-G (with a hyphen then) Standard of mine. Some of these stamps are upright, some rotated 90° degrees clockwise like on the aforementioned S-G.

 

The hardware seems to be chrome-plated - am I right? I never before saw a late-1970's Les Paul with an ABR-1, but this means nothing. Some OEM hardware parts on Gibsons just say "Made in Germany" like on the underside of the bridge of - again - my 1978 S-G, and the base of the Fishman piezo Powerbridge of my 2013 SG Supra, without mentioning the manufacturer. Probably this is either Schaller or ABM. I guess this applies to the tailpiece here, too.

 

As you say the pickup cavities don't look original, this guitar may indeed have started her life as a Deluxe or Pro, or at least was initially intended to become one. The truss-rod cover saying "Standard" looks period-correct but could of course be a replacement.

 

Finally, when about the flamed maple top, I'm absolutely with you: very unusual for the period, but not unheard of.

 

Perhaps an inquiry to the Gibson Customer Service including detailed pictures could be helpful. On the other hand, one of the experts aboard may even remember the special run for GC covering this guitar.

 

Good luck!

[gray3021]

Thank you Capmaster--I'm happy to be on the forum! Yes, she certainly is pretty and has aged well, though perhaps too well for a 1978. Red flag #1! ;)

 

Your detailed response is quite appreciated and the info is very useful, especially your comments about the soft corners and the finish beneath the truss rod cover. I've sent Gibson customer service some details and pics, so I hope they can provide additional insights :) I'll be sure to post any updates as I get them.

 

Cheers!

[capmaster]

... I've sent Gibson customer service some details and pics, so I hope they can provide additional insights :) I'll be sure to post any updates as I get them.

 

Cheers!

Thank you for your reply. I'm looking forward to the forthcoming updates!

[sparquelito]

To answer the original question, no.

I have never seen a late '70's LP like that.

[gray3021]

Cheers sparquelito--you are not alone in that!

[stein]

I'm really leaning toward a re-fin on this.

 

The color looks off for the time period, but is a common color, or shade, for other time periods. I can't tell from the pics for sure, but other contours (back photo) look "softened" possibly as well.

 

And really, lets be honest: It's just to NICE a finish for the age and the year to not look at that as a possibility.

 

Couple questions: When you say "out of spec" pup cavities, what does that mean? Done by hand? Do they have finish over them?

 

The bridge: does it have bushings for the studs, or are the studs alone and directly into the wood?

[gray3021]

I'm really leaning toward a re-fin on this.

 

The color looks off for the time period, but is a common color, or shade, for other time periods. I can't tell from the pics for sure, but other contours (back photo) look "softened" possibly as well.

 

And really, lets be honest: It's just to NICE a finish for the age and the year to not look at that as a possibility.

 

Couple questions: When you say "out of spec" pup cavities, what does that mean? Done by hand? Do they have finish over them?

 

The bridge: does it have bushings for the studs, or are the studs alone and directly into the wood?

 

 

Yes, the finish just doesn't fit with the age, in terms of both color and condition.

 

And to answer your other questions, the pup cavities do have finish in them, and the rout shapes aren't the same as those in other '78s I've seen. I'll try to upload a pic or two. And the bridge studs go straight into the wood per standard ABR--no bushings. Also no evidence of maple plugs, as one would expect to see in a Nashville-to-ABR conversion. But that could further hint to a re-fin.