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1947 or 1948??? J-45 - Unique Situation (2 logos) factory 2nd


Proxima8624

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I have a Gibson J-45 that was handed down to me and i'm having trouble dating and valuing the guitar as its quite unique from all the rest out there. It appears to have the older script logo underneath the block style Gibson logo and a 2 on the back of the headstock as a factory second. From what ive read i'm assuming it's either a 1947 or 1948 as that's when the logo transition occurred. It also has no FON and the tuning machines and bridge match that time frame. Its been very well taken care of with its strings loose and no cracks going through but one of the internal bracings has lifted ever so slightly. Any info would be greatly appreciated in helping me determine its age, history and value as i cant find another one like it!. Thanks, Matt

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With the underlying script logo, rectangular bridge, those tuners, and no FON, you would normally say 1946 was more likely. Dating in the 1947-1950 range is tricky with no FON, and you have to go with the preponderance of evidence. The block logo suggests 1947 before the guitar went out the door, but there is no way to be sure. The straight bridge went to a belly bridge sometime during 1947, to the best of my knowledge. Pretty sure that most I have seen that have 1948 FON's (although there is disagreement on exactly what that range is) have belly bridges. I would expect a 1948 to have a belly-up bridge, no evidence of a script logo (unless the guitar sat around the plant for a couple of years because of whatever flaw made it a 2nd, which is probably not likely), and closed Kluson three-on-a-plate tuners.

 

Does the guitar have vertical cloth side stays on the inside, or vertical wood side stays?

 

Value is hard to judge without an inspection, as it depends on a whole bunch of things that aren't apparent from photos, such as neck angle, bridgeplate condition, frets, board wear, etc.

 

But the guitar looks pretty good. There are probably a fair number of people who would pay $5-6K just based on what the pictures show, and take a chance on the rest of it. The guitar generally looks good, and could be worth more after inspection and remedy of any problems, if they are minor.

 

At this stage in its life the "2" designation probably doesn't have a lot of impact on value if the guitar is sound.

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My best year guess is 46/47. From 1940 onward, factory seconds were made available for purchase by Gibson employees, at a significant discount, before being shipped. Some had minor cosmetic flaws, and others had absolutely nothing wrong with them. The latter happened when an employee asked a line inspector to watch for an especially nice speciman, slipped them a few $ and then bought it for cheap. There were/are quite a few of those floating around, but there's no telling for sure. The logo situation is a new one in my experience. I could speculate, but can't offer anything substantive to lend credibility to my thoughts.

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Does the guitar have vertical cloth side stays on the inside, or vertical wood side stays?

 

 

 

 

The side stays are definitely cloth. Does that help in identifying the year?

 

Neck angle is remarkably straight up and down the entire fretboard but has caused a slight upward pull on the top of the body just below the bridge like many others I've seen. Tunes up and plays great without any buzzing and all frets appear to be original. Everything seems to be original for that matter except its missing the strap end pin and one of the black bridge pins. Its truly a remarkable guitar and i'm very interested in selling it for the right price, i just wish i could identify the true year. I've contacted Gibson and sent off pictures, was told i should have a response within 248 hours with any information they can dig up. Crossing my fingers they can solve this double logo mystery because i cant find anything else that would cause this to be a factory second other that's the logo. I think the logo is extremely unique and certainly tells a story.. possibly one of a kind but i'm only speculating. Ill update as soon as I hear back from Gibson.

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Not much need to get the year exactly correct; many people with old Gibsons like yours simply describe it as "a '46/'47" J-45, etc. The painted over script logo is not entirely unheard of, as suggested in reply #17 in this thread on the umgf. Also- Nick's thought that the guitar may've been sitting around uncompleted is entirely plausible, and that the painted over logo maybe the only reason for it being marked a second.

 

Rather than simply providing an appraisal, I'm sure many here would love to hear about how you came to have this guitar handed down, and would also appreciate hearing any stories or photos you could share of the person who handed it down to you, playing this old guitar.

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Congratulations on receiving a cool guitar and thanks for sharing it with us.

 

As 62burst expressed, many here, myself included, would love to learn the back story.

 

I have a 1943 SJ with double logo, with mine having an off-center script logo underneath a slightly less off-center script logo:

 

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