2016 Gibson LP Traditional Ground issue

[Mjf222]

Hi all,

I have a 2016 Gibson LP Traditional that has a ground issue. Annoying hum that goes away when I touch the strings, bridge, etc. I inspected the jack and pots and everything seems to me soldered securely. Since this is a modern LP (2016) any suggestions on where I should begin trouble shooting???? I tested the guitar with multiple amps, and cables. I also confirmed my other LP does not have the issue.

 

Thanks in advanced!!!!!

[lindseyp]

I had a similar issue in two different LPs, I had to take them to luthiers to figure it out. I think if the factory skimps on any of the internal wiring the guitar will short out easily.

[LesWeasel]

AFAIK – If the hum goes away when you touch the strings, the guitar is grounded properly. Your body is acting like an antenna causing the hum. When you touch the strings, or any grounded part of the guitar, you become grounded and the hum goes away. Internal shielding of the control cavity may help.

[lindseyp]

I would find that acceptable in my single coil guitars, never in my humbuckers since humbucking is their job. Take it to the luthier if you can't find any problems yourself.

[LesWeasel]

As before, this is AFAIK -

I thought humbuckers were designed to eliminate noise picked up from the PUPS themselves, not noise otherwise introduced into the signal chain. For example, I don't think humbuckers will help if you use an unshielded cable from the guitar to the amp.

As far as the “your body as an antenna” theory “, try this (no pickups involved)–

Turn on your amp and plug in one end of a guitar cable and crank it up (within reason). Then, while touching no other metal on the cable, place your thumb on the tip of the plug at the other end. HUMMMMMMM

Now, while leaving your thumb on the tip, grab as much of the sleeve and any other metal of the plug end as you can. The hum should either go away completely or be greatly reduced.

The hum you hear is signal your body is picking up. Once you grab the sleeve, you become grounded to the amp and no more hum.

Why does it hum worse sometimes than others? Same reason your cell phone reception is better in some locations. It depends on the strength and quantity of signals dancing around you at any given time.

The stray signals your body picks up can be introduced into the signal chain from within the control cavity and eslewhere - beyond the point that the humbuckers would help.

[Pesh]

You might have a static buildup somewhere; the shielding tape will help, and if you rub down the guitar with a static remover / guard spray, this will hopefully help.

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

That same issue has driven me nuts....

Then I found out that I don't hear it when I play, problem solved. When I stop playing there are two things that I normally do:

#1 turning down Volume knob on my guitar

Or..

#2 step on tuner pedal that mutes the amp

[merciful-evans]

This happened to me yesterday using my 2015 LP.

The hum was present with coil tap and with the full humbuckers.

 

I removed & then replaced instrument cables but the hum persisted.

 

Finally I tried another guitar. With the Ric plugged in, it was quiet. The weird thing is that when I plugged the LP back in, it was quiet too.

An annoying intermittent problem!

[Mjf222]

OK...I shielded the cavity with a ground wire attached and still have the hum. This is the only guitar I owe that does this. Mogami cables, 3 different amps, different house electric...still humming. I have attached a sound clip of me touch the strings and letting them go. Thanks

Voice_001 (1).mp3

[RockyA]

Buy yourself a "Bionic Band" it will eliminate all interference to your body. I have worn them for years now on my wrist. I just get the plain old black rubber looking band and they work.

[stein]

My computer doesn't do well with downloads, maybe I will try again later.

 

But still, let me explain a bit about grounding and humbuckers.

 

That "hum" or "buzz" is usually not the guitar we are hearing, but rather, what the guitar is picking up from the air, from other sources.

 

With electricity, it has a tendency to want to move from the positive to negative, or the other way around, depending on which side has the lowest resistance. In some places of the circuit, SOME of the signal will jump from one to the other, through the "air" so to speak, and when it does this, it picks up that hum.

 

In a balanced circuit, both sides are identical, and balance each other out in that the resistance on both sides will not want to move from one side to the other. The other kind is "single ended", in that one half of the circuit is the signal side, and the only part that transmits the signal as "sound", and the other side is just to let the electricity flow, and it's also common to use most or part of it for the shield, or ground.

 

In a single ended circuit, pickups are a GREAT source of picking up noise, because the signal has to travel from the magnet to the coil, ideal conditions for hum. In a humbucker, the coils are "balanced" and have much less tendency to have one side stronger than the other, so it's no longer a source. BUT, the rest of the guitar and the amp it is feeding is still a single ended circuit.

 

If you are still with me, or not bored yet...

 

SHIELDING is not a block like a lot tend to think of it as, it's there to catch stray signals and dump them off somewhere else BEFORE it gets to where you don't want something coming in. For example, if you just have a copper plate between something as a "shield" and it isn't connected to anything, it will just pick up any signals coming to it and pass them right through to the other side. It only works if it is connected to something that has less resistance, and is AWAY from where you don't want the stray signals to go.

 

Usually, almost always, shielding doesn't work in guitars because they are connected to "dump" the stray signal right where they are trying to be blocked in the first place. Also, but a separate problem, many have a tendency to "ground" everything to each other, and you end up with a circuit that has a floating ground looping around everything and also, putting stray signals right back into the circuit. In most cases, if everything is connected on two sides, and it also has a shield, it will make things hum more because you just added more potential to pick up everything.

[stein]

Hi all,

I have a 2016 Gibson LP Traditional that has a ground issue. Annoying hum that goes away when I touch the strings, bridge, etc.

Thanks in advanced!!!!!

Of corse, I could have saved myself a lot of typing...THIS is how it should work in the first place.

 

If the hum goes away when you touch the strings, it is properly grounded and working.

 

It really shouldn't be a problem because you will never be using or playing your guitar without touching the strings. So, judging issues such as noise or hum when it is in conditions that just aren't important is worse than chasing ground issues and noise.

[Mjf222]

My computer doesn't do well with downloads, maybe I will try again later.

 

But still, let me explain a bit about grounding and humbuckers.

 

That "hum" or "buzz" is usually not the guitar we are hearing, but rather, what the guitar is picking up from the air, from other sources.

 

With electricity, it has a tendency to want to move from the positive to negative, or the other way around, depending on which side has the lowest resistance. In some places of the circuit, SOME of the signal will jump from one to the other, through the "air" so to speak, and when it does this, it picks up that hum.

 

In a balanced circuit, both sides are identical, and balance each other out in that the resistance on both sides will not want to move from one side to the other. The other kind is "single ended", in that one half of the circuit is the signal side, and the only part that transmits the signal as "sound", and the other side is just to let the electricity flow, and it's also common to use most or part of it for the shield, or ground.

 

In a single ended circuit, pickups are a GREAT source of picking up noise, because the signal has to travel from the magnet to the coil, ideal conditions for hum. In a humbucker, the coils are "balanced" and have much less tendency to have one side stronger than the other, so it's no longer a source. BUT, the rest of the guitar and the amp it is feeding is still a single ended circuit.

 

If you are still with me, or not bored yet...

 

SHIELDING is not a block like a lot tend to think of it as, it's there to catch stray signals and dump them off somewhere else BEFORE it gets to where you don't want something coming in. For example, if you just have a copper plate between something as a "shield" and it isn't connected to anything, it will just pick up any signals coming to it and pass them right through to the other side. It only works if it is connected to something that has less resistance, and is AWAY from where you don't want the stray signals to go.

 

Usually, almost always, shielding doesn't work in guitars because they are connected to "dump" the stray signal right where they are trying to be blocked in the first place. Also, but a separate problem, many have a tendency to "ground" everything to each other, and you end up with a circuit that has a floating ground looping around everything and also, putting stray signals right back into the circuit. In most cases, if everything is connected on two sides, and it also has a shield, it will make things hum more because you just added more potential to pick up everything.

 

Thanks for explaining this!!!! Above you state: With electricity, it has a tendency to want to move from the positive to negative, or the other way around, depending on which side has the lowest resistance. In some places of the circuit, SOME of the signal will jump from one to the other, through the "air" so to speak, and when it does this, it picks up that hum.

Is there something within the circuitry that would cause the jump? I ask only because my other LP's do not have the hum. Are there components or wire types that are susceptible to this issue? Is there a way to balance circuit?

 

Thanks again!

[stein]

 

Is there something within the circuitry that would cause the jump? I ask only because my other LP's do not have the hum. Are there components or wire types that are susceptible to this issue? Is there a way to balance circuit?

 

Thanks again!

It's a little more complicated than that...although I admit, in trying to explain it simply, I likely made it more complicated.

 

Dig this: you got two wires, a (+) and (-) running next to each other. The electricity running though one desperately wants to go through the other. If they are perfectly, exactly the same signal but just opposites, then the signal will NOT want to leak from one side to the other. THAT is called "balanced".

 

For a true balanced circuit, you would have TWO incidental circuits, both opposites of each other. For a guitar, IF it was possible, it would mean a "stereo" or double pot for each, two caps for the tone control...basically, the whole control cavity would be doubled. But that wouldn't do anything or have any advantage, because they would then run into a single ended guitar cable running into a single ended amp, so the "balanced" circuit would no longer function as one.

 

Make sense?

 

In a single ended circuit, (or even a balanced circuit described above that is running into a NON balanced circuit), ONE side is always more "powerful" or different than the other. ONE side always wants to find it's way to the other side. When SOME of this circuit leaks into the other side, as the magnetism or current leaks, it picks up stuff. THAT is the hum you are hearing.

 

Keep in mind, you can NEVER stop one side from wanting to leak to the other side in a single ended circuit. Never. The ONLY way you can stop it from humming, is to have a ground of some sort that will allow whatever may be leaked to be picked up by the ground, preventing the "leaked" signal to not want to go into the circuit again. THAT is what happens when the bridge and strings are grounded and you touch the strings- you are that thing that grounds it, takes up the extra.

 

There are lots of things that make one guitar different than another, and hum more than another, such as push-pull pots, type of wire, where they are routed, where they are grounded together, even static. but all have the same thing in common: they have to be grounded to not hum when playing them.

 

Trying to make a guitar as quiet as another when NOT touching the bridge is a fool's errand. There isn't anything wrong with it, and even if you DID improve it when not touching the strings, just doing that wouldn't improve it or always make it more or less quiet WHEN you touched the strings.

 

Now,,,if it hums or is loud still when you touch the bridge or strings, then you have an issue somewhere, and can likely get improvement.

[Mjf222]

It's a little more complicated than that...although I admit, in trying to explain it simply, I likely made it more complicated.

 

Dig this: you got two wires, a (+) and (-) running next to each other. The electricity running though one desperately wants to go through the other. If they are perfectly, exactly the same signal but just opposites, then the signal will NOT want to leak from one side to the other. THAT is called "balanced".

 

For a true balanced circuit, you would have TWO incidental circuits, both opposites of each other. For a guitar, IF it was possible, it would mean a "stereo" or double pot for each, two caps for the tone control...basically, the whole control cavity would be doubled. But that wouldn't do anything or have any advantage, because they would then run into a single ended guitar cable running into a single ended amp, so the "balanced" circuit would no longer function as one.

 

Make sense?

 

In a single ended circuit, (or even a balanced circuit described above that is running into a NON balanced circuit), ONE side is always more "powerful" or different than the other. ONE side always wants to find it's way to the other side. When SOME of this circuit leaks into the other side, as the magnetism or current leaks, it picks up stuff. THAT is the hum you are hearing.

 

Keep in mind, you can NEVER stop one side from wanting to leak to the other side in a single ended circuit. Never. The ONLY way you can stop it from humming, is to have a ground of some sort that will allow whatever may be leaked to be picked up by the ground, preventing the "leaked" signal to not want to go into the circuit again. THAT is what happens when the bridge and strings are grounded and you touch the strings- you are that thing that grounds it, takes up the extra.

 

There are lots of things that make one guitar different than another, and hum more than another, such as push-pull pots, type of wire, where they are routed, where they are grounded together, even static. but all have the same thing in common: they have to be grounded to not hum when playing them.

 

Trying to make a guitar as quiet as another when NOT touching the bridge is a fool's errand. There isn't anything wrong with it, and even if you DID improve it when not touching the strings, just doing that wouldn't improve it or always make it more or less quiet WHEN you touched the strings.

 

Now,,,if it hums or is loud still when you touch the bridge or strings, then you have an issue somewhere, and can likely get improvement.

 

Thanks you the detailed and clarifying response!!!!!!!

[merciful-evans]

Just throwing this in as an afterthought/observation:

I had for a while a guitar with active pickups. I didn’t really like the sound but it was the cleanest signal I ever heard. For recording, it was flawless.

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

Just throwing this in as an afterthought/observation:

I had for a while a guitar with active pickups. I didn’t really like the sound but it was the cleanest signal I ever heard. For recording, it was flawless.

 

I have made a similar experience but in my case the pickups were passive and had ceramic magnets.

The guitar was a Epi SG Special, I don't know if it was because of the PU's or the conductive paint it has in all cavities.

If it is because of the shielding paint, I really would wonder why this is possible on a 150€ Asian made guitar but not on a 10x that price US Gibson.

Ah...wait Gibson's historic spec traditional humming...yeah it has to be that.

[merciful-evans]

I have made a similar experience but in my case the pickups were passive and had ceramic magnets.

The guitar was a Epi SG Special, I don't know if it was because of the PU's or the conductive paint it has in all cavities.

If it is because of the shielding paint, I really would wonder why this is possible on a 150€ Asian made guitar but not on a 10x that price US Gibson.

Ah...wait Gibson's historic spec traditional humming...yeah it has to be that.

 

Right! It couldnt be period correct without it. You have to hand it to them; Gibson think of everything.