Lars68 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Better? https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/sweetheart-caroline-4 Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Hey Lars, You are making me feel all sad and melancholy by having me listen to this dang song five times. Is this the D18 again? Records great. By and large, you fixed the pitch issues I mentioned last time. Very nice job. I also like that hard strumming to brought in between the bridge and the chorus, very nice, that's in a lot of songs, and it's a great bit to enhance the dynamics of the song. Regarding pitch, 90% of the time you are on pitch. Honestly, I personally don't get all uptight if a singer doesn't hit it 100% of the time. To me there are more important parts like emotion, delivery etc. And this song has all of that. I will also add that a good portion of the pop singers on the radio have the same pitch issues that you do and never sing live, always to be protected by auto-tune. (Anyway, I will highlight just a couple of moments: :42 "married in the spring" a little sharp. Again at 2:45 on the word "spring", also sharp. 1:03: "wolves by the side": a bit sharp I am glad you brought back the high part for "they courted". It makes the chorus soar. I really like it. You do it great except for one time. At 2:40-2:43, it's a bit sharp. Specifically the word "year" on "courted" maybe too, just this once. Finally at 2:49, "Glad" is a bit sharp. For the other 90% of the song, solid with the pitch.) In my book, it is a fine song as is. Notice that if you add up the seconds in the clips I mention it's probably around seven or eight seconds. Think of it as being on pitch for 3:08 out of 3:16. Pretty darn good. If you ever want to tinker, maybe these are moments to focus one, but maybe not. I can tell you that it made for a really enjoyable listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I just wanted to add, Lars, that I was specifically trying to listen for pitch issues, and can get a little too excited about all of that. If I were listening normally, maybe I would have noticed one or two. This is is why you should probably take a lot of what I said earlier with a big grain of salt. Sometimes I get a little too over-eager to post what I think are pitch issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Avery, man I don't know what to say? The help you have given me is just incredibly valuable, and I can't thank you enough. You really did help me bring this song home. So when it hits the charts, I will owe you some royalties. Being stubborn as I am, I will of course try to get the song 100% right. I will probably have to keep trying until the cows go home and while correcting these issues mess something else up. Even if not perfect, it still shows the song and my intentions. Thanks again Avery! Lars By the way, yes it is the D-18. I put medium electric strings on this guitar and it makes it record best of all my guitars. I need to buy some for at least one of the Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker201 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 That's your best take on that Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I am extremely impressed, Lars. I think you're really spot on with pitch, and fixed the pitch issues. And I agree with Keith, your best one for sure. I also like the new chords you added in? and some additional strumming you put in too. Now go sit back, have a beer, or your preferred alcoholic beverage, celebrate and relax. [thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Thanks, guys. Goes to show that stubborness can, at least partially, make up for lack of talent, and that if you sing a song enough times, the law of probability works in your favor Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Thanks, guys. Goes to show that stubborness can, at least partially, make up for lack of talent, and that if you sing a song enough times, the law of probability works in your favor Lars Its going in the right direction Lars, as the guys have said, sit back and enjoy a beer, you deserve it ... but dont relax too much, still work to be done .. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Lars, as I went through the thread, I finally found a live link and heard the song on the 4th posting, lol. Since you are asking for honest opinion, I will give it. You are to be commended for striving to improve. You still have a ways to go, it's still really pitchy. I don't know how to tell one to improve that. There are courses one can buy if you don't take vocal lessons, but I have no idea if they work or not. They claim to. I know for a fact that singing a lot and getting some help from mentors can make one better. Whether it can work to dramatically improve singing pitchy, I don't know. In general, it seems that one needs that innate ability to stay on pitch but perhaps some pro help can help you. Here's an idea. Do you know any recording engineer? Or if you don't, you could go to a studio and do this. Record a song and then have the engineer apply pitch correction. You will then be able to see with your eyes where you are off and the degree to which it is off. He can easily point out the worst notes. It might help you to see and learn the exact spots that are "ouch" moments, which might help you improve. If you have a recording setup of your own, you could buy pitch correction software. My favorite engineer likes Melodyne. He said even the basic version would be fine for that. Now, the good news. Some of the most revered songwriters could be pitchy. The bad news is you need to elevate yourself further to reach their level of competence. One of them died this week -- Guy Clark. He wasn't too bad. Townes van Zandt was even worse for being pitchy. Now, these two are revered in the folk and roots genres, so, that's good for those of us who are not songbirds! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 Livemusic, I appreciate your help. I don't know any engineers, but I might be able to find pitch correction software for iPad and Garageband, which is what I use. Thanks for the tip. By the way, recording my songs is an ongoing process for me. I tend to delete lesser versions from Soundcloud. I have. been writing and singing for about ten months, so I have far from given up on learning pitch. Writing is incredibly rewarding, no matter the final quality Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 I'm not one to give up easily. I haven't been able to get this song to sound right, but with a great tip from Keith (kwalker201) to use headphones when recording, I finally got it right (a relative term when referring to me, of course...), but this time around it sounds good and on pitch. Probably my best singing effort to date, of any of my songs. Using headphone was hard at first, but it enabled me to hear myself much, much better and eventually I managed to pick out the pitch. Now when hearing this version, I kind of feel embaressed by all my previous attempt posted above (and hence deleted). Oh well, I guess I learn by trial and error. I always heard a song in there somewhere, not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but still a song worth not giving up on... Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Hey there, A nice listen, I do think the headphones help you not only with singing on pitch, but add a stronger "melodic flavor" to your vocals (if that makes any sense, which it probably doesn't). I thought your last version before this one was pretty solid regarding pitch too, just saying. Never be embarrassed about posting. It is always nice to see original material. And you have come quite a long way from some of your first efforts. You might have a couple of rough spots from time to time, but overall I can always discern a nice melody there, and you are on it for a majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Hey there, A nice listen, I do think the headphones help you not only with singing on pitch, but add a stronger "melodic flavor" to your vocals (if that makes any sense, which it probably doesn't). I thought your last version before this one was pretty solid regarding pitch too, just saying. Never be embarrassed about posting. It is always nice to see original material. And you have come quite a long way from some of your first efforts. You might have a couple of rough spots from time to time, but overall I can always discern a nice melody there, and you are on it for a majority of the time. Avery, I think you are right about the headphones helping to add "melodic flavor". I got more confidence. Before reading your post, I thought about how the previous attempts sounded kind of flat and monotone, and how the new attempt has more "bounce". It might not be better as far as pitch, but it sounds more like I had envisioned the song. Melodic flavor and bounce probably means the same. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Lars - you got stones. There were a few pitch issues, and you are laboring through them. I did not want to post critically in the beginning, because sometimes a person can take it, and some times a person can't. Those that can't - they all to often give up and stop. I'd hate that to happen to anyone. I had a finance professor in college who kept giving my group Cs and Ds. No matter how hard we worked.... Cs and Ds. We were frustrated. I finally hit my tipping point. I marched to his office, told him he might as well cut me - I had no more blood to give. He told me to stop sniveling and to man up; He said he was especially hard on our group because our group had the most independent thinking, and the most promise - and that we needed to refine it. He was a bastard to us because he knew we could take it. He told me if I wanted to go have a good cry, do it elsewhere as he didnt want his floor wet. I left his office angry and charged. I hated him. We had one more grade in the class after ten group weekly projects where we got the Cs and Ds. Our final case... Yeah we were jacked. We got an A. He called me over the summer and asked me to TA his class the next semester, and I said yes. When I showed up he shook my hand, and told me there were some people who could not take the tough love he was dishing out, and in his experience he needed to make sure he found the students he could go Tough Love on, and the ones he couldn't. The ones he couldn't he - wouldn't - as he didnt want to make it so they didnt come back. Lars, You come back, and you are getting better. Its apparent in your progressive works. If I were you, I'd keep posting and keep enjoying this rewarding journey we are all on. We have nice guitars, but really all we really want is to make music that sounds great and makes us feel great. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Sal, you would make a great finance professor! :-) I have struggled for years and years to learn very basic guitar skill. I can now do enough with a guitar to accompany simple tunes. It took determination over a very long time. I want to get there with the singing too. My goal is to one day write and perform my own songs and covers of favorites for friends and family, and, if the stars align, in coffeehouses or similar settings. Music is a blessing and a great love for me. Unfortunately, I was not born with the correct genes and playing and singing do not come naturally for me (writing the songs is much easier, for some reason...), but what I lack in talent I can make up for with stubborness and the passing of time. The support and advice from this forum has been a huge contributing factor in the progress I have made, and I appreciate honesty. The hard truth is that I don't hear the music as you, and others here do. I need help identifying the shortcomings. Hence, each song I do is literally a labor of love. Thanks all for the support! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Lars, have you tried this song in Svensk? Im curious if it would be easier for you to be on pitch if sung in your native language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Lars, have you tried this song in Svensk? Im curious if it would be easier for you to be on pitch if sung in your native language. EA, I haven't tried this particular song in Swedish. However, I tried another song of mine a while back, and it was equally difficult. Using headphones while playing made it easier, and I plan on using them from now on. I do have some musical ear training software that I have used in the past, but I tend not keep up with it. I need the motivation of songwriting to keep me going. I know, it then becomes sort of a catch 22, but between working fulltime and raising two young boys, I have to use my limited "music time" where I enjoy it the most, and that is with a guitar in hand and a new song on the horizon. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Share Posted May 26, 2016 Hi again friends! I have been experimenting and trying to find more groove in my singing and playing. I think the song needs hit. This is a very different approach from the previous style, now almost rock n' roll. Do you think it is worth going further with it? https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/sweetheart-caroline-2 Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Hi again friends! I have been experimenting and trying to find more groove in my singing and playing. I think the song needs hit. This is a very different approach from the previous style, now almost rock n' roll. Do you think it is worth going further with it? https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/sweetheart-caroline-2 Lars Hiya Lars, No doubt an interesting take, definitely quite a different feel. Will obviously take some getting used to after I've got the other version stuck in my head after listening to it for so many dang times . I am intrigued; it is interesting to mix tempos up, and once the bridge goes back to that original tempo it is a nice contrast. Liked hearing you tapping your foot during that part. Yes, definitely intriguing. (Overall, the new tempo almost changes the mood of the song, and kind of belies the sad lyrics, although this is something that songs do sometimes...have dark lyrics with a happy melody to create an eerie contrast...) Sitting in the producer's chair, here, I think you need to do a real proper re-mix, and have one of those guys like Zedd throw in a bunch of electronica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Share Posted May 27, 2016 Avery, I feel very much the same as you. I was just trying to learn by changing things and this version came about as kind of a happy accident. The good thing is that I don't have to pick one over the other. I don't have to pick one version for an album, or risk confusing my audience I will just carry on with both and see what happens! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I think moving to strumming is actually a good move Lars, in that it alllows you to get into a groove and give you more freedom to focus on vocals. While there are still many false notes, the actual tone of your voice in parts sound stronger and deeper than what i heard before, and that is really pleasing to hear. But you need to fix those pitch issues Lars as being on pitch across the majority of the song is the foundation of any vocal part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Share Posted May 27, 2016 I think moving to strumming is actually a good move Lars, in that it alllows you to get into a groove and give you more freedom to focus on vocals. While there are still many false notes, the actual tone of your voice in parts sound stronger and deeper than what i heard before, and that is really pleasing to hear. But you need to fix those pitch issues Lars as being on pitch across the majority of the song is the foundation of any vocal part. Yes, learning pitch is a priority. While this last take was just kind of an experiment, I think I learned a few things. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 Man, this is close... https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/sweetheart-caroline3 Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker201 Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Yes it is getting there Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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