Gibson J-50, Hummingbird, or fake

[waggintales]

I'm brand new to the Gibson Guitar Board and really new to playing guitars too - one month into it but I've got the bug. I currently play a Seagull S6, but while it is in with the luthier for a set up I was looking around and found this. I am by no means an expert in anything guitar related, especially Gibson, but want to know if this is real or fake.

 

I've yet to see it in person, just want to have my ducks in a row before looking at it. This is what I've been told to date.

 

Gibson J-50 (they said it may be a Hummingbird too).

I can't locate a serial number in the photos.

 

Concerns - the fretboard is not one I've seen on a J-50, neither is the Sunburst.

The Hummingbird pickguard - were these engraved - this one is not.

How can I tell if it is real or if it is fake?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

db

[stein]

This may take a while.

 

I see a few issues right off, besides what you noted. It has a Norlin era label, but the headstock looks to me to be almost a perfect 50's shape, maybe. It also has a 3 screw truss rod cover, which I THINK was used sometime around the Norlin era for a short time.

 

It seems possible this guitar is a highly modified one, but just as likely to me it's a 70's fake. The pics aren't that good to be able to see.

 

There are many here who are very familiar with Norlin era flat tops, they may be able to spot more details and important clues.

 

I might point out that even if this guitar can be authenticated, and perhaps the "mods" (if there are some) identified, it should be priced very cheap.

[aliasphobias]

It would be counterproductive to fake a '70s Gibson but it does look like a blender.What does the label say? Take a mirror and flashlight when you go to see it. You may not need either.

[stein]

It would be counterproductive to fake a '70s Gibson but it does look like a blender.What does the label say? Take a mirror and flashlight when you go to see it. You may not need either.

This is true, but there were fake Gibson's as early as the 70's.

[Jon S.]

It's possible that it is real, but has had a handful of modifications over the years. Before you buy it, I would recommend taking pictures of the serial and truss rod cavity and sending them to us to check out.

[waggintales]

Thanks for the information - wisdom abounds on this forum! I'll update the post if I take it to the next step - there seems to be a bunch of questions regarding this guitar. He is asking 1k for it - probably worth a look.

[OldCowboy]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a fake, given the information available thus far, but it definitely is an instrument suffering a model identity crisis. To me, a fake is usually the equivalent of a cross between a camel and a jackass, where this critter more properly appears to be a mixed breed Gibson. If it sounds good, plays well, and has decent structural integrity it might make for a fine player. Just don't encourage it to reproduce!

[ksdaddy]

I'd own it but I wouldn't let it lay eggs.

[stein]

Gotta point out again, even IF the parts and pieces are genuine Gibson, they don't seem to belong together. Never seen that size and shape headstock on a 70's Gibson, nor the 3 screw truss rod cover (don't take that to the bank). So it means that it's possible only SOME of the guitar is Gibson, and maybe not the whole thing.

 

Also, gotta point out the broken/repaired headstock.

 

1k even if it proves to be made of genuine Gibson parts, is a stretch I think.

[OldCowboy]

Gotta point out again, even IF the parts and pieces are genuine Gibson, they don't seem to belong together. Never seen that size and shape headstock on a 70's Gibson, nor the 3 screw truss rod cover (don't take that to the bank). So it means that it's possible only SOME of the guitar is Gibson, and maybe not the whole thing.

 

Also, gotta point out the broken/repaired headstock.

 

1k even if it proves to be made of genuine Gibson parts, is a stretch I think.

Yeah, the mismatch list gets pretty long, and I don't really feel like taking time to fully enumerate parts or suggest possibilities. Bottom line, it might be an OK beater. Next bottom line, in MHO paying more than $500 would be a mistake.

[waggintales]

Is it possible that this is a Southern Jumbo - It looks the same (exception of pickgaurd). I'm taking to the owner tonight to set up a time to look at it. I get that it may be a mess of parts - but would a J-50 Deluxe be similar to that?

 

I do still see the other items that are off on it - just attempting to piece it together. Thanks again for everyone's thoughts on this.

[waggintales]

I just saw the guitar - the owner's son met me at my luthier. It looked like a Hummingbird from 20 feet....but then they looked it over! Then they looked it over and they were suspicious of several things so they dug in a bit deeper. This is what they shared:

 

1. Headstock - the detail at the top just didn't have the detail of an original - the scrollwork was too flat - not enough detail in it.

2. 3 screws in the truss rod cover

3. The inlays in the neck looked plastic

4. The finish on the neck was poor at best

5. The break between the headstock and the neck was fairly flat in angle.

6. The lining inside the body had no kerfs. solid piece of wood

7. The bracing appeared to have no detailing done to it - just a stick of wood.

8. No serial number on the headstock.

9. And the belly was pushed down - so the bridge had a huge shim in the saddle so the strings could still be played.

 

Definite China made, and poorly at that. The owner's son was a bit surprised but made no argument as to it not being authentic. Glad I joined this board and happy that I have a luthier that I will use forever now! It was a fun experience - I learned a ton on what to look for next time.

[OldCowboy]

I love a happy ending once in a while! Turns out to be a camel/jackass after all. Keep looking - you'll find a good'n. Was hoping it was an SJ that someone had tried to pass-off as a Hummingbird, but knew the odds were slim.