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Tone difference between .022 and .039 cap?


tOCK

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I'm putting together a Les Paul harness using 50's centralab pots and a pair of .039 vintage bumblebee caps.

 

The volume pots are 500k and the tone pots are 250k.

 

On paper what difference would I hear vs a much more expensive setup using the holy grail .022 bumblebees/matched pots?

 

I have a handful of other values. What value is good for a tele?

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What value depends on what you want to hear when you roll it down, and the inductance and resistance of the pickups you are using. Higher values dip further down the frequency range in what they pull out (warmer, muddier), lower can values emphasize the midrange resonant peak and move it further up in frequency as you go down in cap value (less mud, more cocked Wah sound as you get to the lower values).

 

I would suggest though, not letting your choice be influenced too much by cap type, but focus on the value. That's where all the real change is affected when you roll the tone down.

 

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500k and 250k sounds like a Jr. harness.

 

There isn't a lot of info about actual values and changes, but when I was TRYING to look into it, (trying to get away from the "common knowledge" or "rumor"), most I saw for a Jr. harness was that, as well as a lot of single pup harnesses in other Gibby's.

 

Nearly all LP harnesses I saw or ever remember for humbucker guitars were 500k volume and tone, and that is what I thought was common knowledge. For P-90 guitars, 300k for volume and tone, BUT I seem to also remember seeing some 500k there as well.

 

Anyway...caps: .022 is a MODERN thing, as vintage caps are almost always .047. The tolerance they were made to (which I can't remember right now) means that they could EACH actually measure about .039. You might have caps that are a higher spec? I can't remember. But anyway, they will work great, although not the actual "holy grail" vintage caps.

 

The difference in sound between the 250k tone pot and the 500k tone pot, is the 250k will sound like the 500k turns down about half or 1/4, depending on taper and such. It will LITERALLY be the exact same thing as when a 500k pot is turned down to where it is measuring 250k.

 

The sound of the cap can be a deep subject, because in my experience, the size and voltage rating also plays a part. I haven't played too much with different voltages in the Gibson style, except to say that PIO caps seem to support that fatness associated with Gibson, and .047 sounds more "right" while .022 sounds a little more versatile with a smoother and longer roll-off and brighter. I think the above post in his opinion might be accurate.

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I have a handful of other values. What value is good for a tele?

For Fenders and Fender pups, the killer "vintage" set-up is 250k pots all around, and also ceramic disk caps.

 

Using 500k pots for Fenders usually gives a little more volume, but mostly just too much highs and brightness as you turn them up. There isn't much to gain in increasing the pot values. It isn't as much a castration as say, using a 250 pot on a Gibson with humbuckers.

 

Fenders also have more of a glassy tone than a fat thunk type of thing, and PIO is usually wasted on a Fender. However, ceramic disk tend to support the clarity and sweet high-end overtones usually associated and love about Fenders.

 

I have also found, that while the spec is the lower voltage, MOST actual vintage Fenders have a higher voltage spec for the caps that were actually installed. (I think it's .5 volt as opposed to 1 volt...but I can't remember. But the cap size of the higher one is closer to the size of the pot as opposed to the little bity ones that match "spec").

 

Ceramic disk caps tend to let more "sizzle" in, as opposed to the smoother sound of PIO or polyester (orange drop type). Higher VOLTAGE ceramic disk tend to let more clarity and overtones come though when turned down, kinda like a good "Purple Haze" sound, where the sound is still rolled off in the highs, but still has a degree of clarity along with the mud.

 

Going from .047 to .022 in a typical Fender tends to help in the highs where the "smoothness" of a poly cap takes away some of the sizzle of a ceramic. Supports the spank.

 

Cap TYPE can be a rather subtle thing, as opposed to the value. PIO caps in a Fender are kinda lost, as the fatness usually gained in a humbucker aren't really there in a Fender to begin with.

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I couldn't tell any difference when I experimented with values and styles of caps so I just use whatever the guitar comes with. 22uf and 47uf according to 250 or 500 pot. Bumblee be vs ceramic sounded the same,

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