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Midtown Standard Problems


wordsworth_jlg

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I’m here to ask for opinions and advice. I’m not here to bash Gibson despite what is to follow. I just need to get input from other guitar players about this. I apologize for the length of this post.

 

I have always wanted a Gibson and specifically a semi-hollow body version like an ES-335. I was excited about the Midtown model although it’s not a 335 its in my price range so I purchased a new Midtown Standard in pelham blue from an online store. However when I received the guitar (and since) I’ve grown increasingly disappointed with the quality of construction and finish.

 

When I received the guitar the first thing I noticed was that there was a chip in the finish on the headstock. I contacted the retailer about it because I assumed it was damaged in some way by them. They assured me that they could not have caused this damage because they do not open the boxes when they receive them from Gibson. They told me it must have been caused during shipping. They offered to exchange the guitar. Instead I decided to keep it but I began to notice as time went on more and more issues that really concerned me.

 

The main issue was that the binding around the body was not level at all. I tried to ignore it but I continued to find areas that were still worse. 75% of the binding on the body of the guitar had this problem and in the worst areas we are talking 1/16 of an inch or more where the body sits proud of the binding. This feels terrible when you run your finger along it and a couple of spots you could actually catch the edge with your fingernail. The binding along the neck was much better.

 

Other issues:

 

  1. The nut that holds the pickup selector and the one that holds the input jack was loose.
  2. The control panel back-plate was not sized correctly and the gap was so large you could literally see the bare wood along the sides. We are talking 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch here. This is a thin piece of plastic that should not be difficult to size correctly.
  3. There were several places on the binding around the neck that have brown streaks. These looked like they were on the binding and then covered over by the lacquer.
  4. There was a flaw on the side of the nut that looked like a crack in the finish.
  5. The high E string buzzed along almost the entire fretboard. I had to raise the bridge to keep it from buzzing. I understand that this is a setup issue and could be caused by changed in temperature and humidity so I was less bothered by it but one issue has led to another with this guitar and now, due to the other issues, I think it’s possible that the guitar left the factory with an improper setup.

The chip in the finish on the headstock also now seems less likely a shipping mistake and more likely something done at the factory along with the other issues that were allowed to slide through.

 

I’ve owned a few guitars in my day, some USA produced and some not, but none that had this many issues. I was so disappointed in my experience that I finally decided to send the guitar back to the online dealer and have it exchanged for the same model. I hoped that the first one was an anomaly and that the replacement would not have issues but I’ve received the replacement and I believe this guitar has more problems than the first one.

 

The binding is worse. The same type of problem as the first but there are no areas on the binding of the body that are level and more places that you can catch with your fingernail. Several of these areas are accompanied with a line the follows the binding about an 1/8” away.

 

  1. The control panel is better but still not sized correctly.
  2. Same issue at the nut as before which looks like a finish crack.
  3. There is a glob of sawdust visible from the f-hole
  4. A couple of spots on the neck binding where there is just no lacquer at all. It’s almost like the finish was scraped off and left bare binding material.
  5. The frets are badly dressed on this one and have sharp edges that feel sharp on your hand. You can actually catch the edge of the frets with your fingernail. The previous one didn’t have this issue.
  6. There are some finish flaws on the replacement. Some that look like red polishing compound has been ground into the binding. The finish is actually not even there in these areas and is just bare binding with red streaks. The reason I suspect this is because there are also areas on the body of the guitar with similar looking red streaks that you can scrape off with your fingernail. These areas look like they just didn’t clean off the polishing compound. There is also some on the nut in the string slots which seems to mean they were polishing the guitar with the strings already installed??
  7. The flat black paint on the sides of the f-holes is not even and you can almost see bare wood in places.
  8. Where the neck joins the body and binding there are so many lines it looks almost like a street map. These lines are mostly under the finish but some feel like finish cracks. This is much easier to see than explain.

I have pictures of all of this by the way. I will post them if there are people who would like to see proof but right now I just need some opinions. Is this to be expected? I’ve played many cheaper guitars that did not have any of these issues. I want to own this guitar and like it but I can’t seem to get over the problems. Am I expecting too much to have a brand new Midtown with level binding and smooth frets and no finish cracks?

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I'm sorry you are having problems with your Midtown.

Sounds like the replacement didn't fix the issue.

Q&C are two letters not found in the word GIBSON.

Or in the companies attitude for the past several years.

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Hi,

 

It seems that this is a mail order/sight unseen scenario right?

 

I too have bitten the bullet and ordered this way. I've been very lucky. It seems that you have not. If at all possible its always best to play the guitar before buying.

 

 

 

The 1st guitar and the chip: I don't see how that could happen during shipping. You should be able to verify if the box has been opened before or not. If the retailer didn't open the box then it must have been caused at the factory.

 

To be honest, some of the things you mention seem trivial (the sawdust), other things are a bit annoying (having to nip up the selector ring-nut). When I bought my ES-339 I had a loose ring-nut also, and an intermittent fault with signal loss on the selection switch. These things should not have been there, but they were easy enough to put right.

 

But its not me that the seller is trying to please, its you. You paid for a guitar that you are not happy with. If these things amount to an unacceptable purchase then consider returning it again.

Before you do, can I ask if the guitar sounds good? Does it handle well? Is it a guitar you could be happy with? If the answer to any of these is 'no' then its not the guitar for you.

 

The Midtown is similar to the 339. In my view, the 339 is virtually a solid guitar, with a hollow body appearance. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) but the Midtown has routed chambers rather than a traditional build? If that's so its probably even more like a solidbody. Both are a far cry from a 335 you originally wanted. So is the Midtown what you want?

 

Pictures of the problem areas would be a great help I think.

 

-evans

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Most of the issues you are having are cosmetic. And seem very minor at that.

 

Gibsons are largely hand built, and uses a harder to work with and less durable "nitro" finish. I think a lot of the reason some Gibsons have a lot of minor cosmetic "flaws" is because they aren't trying to make a guitar perfect in these areas, and a lot of these "flaws" are present in vintage guitars as well. They aim for something that looks really nice overall, and ages well, more like traditional guitars built that way.

 

So...how you personally evaluate a guitar might have as much to do with it. What to YOU makes for a "quality" guitar?

 

Personal choice has a lot to do with it. Weather it is certain cosmetic anomalies, a certain tonality, a certain weight or feel, individual guitars differ, especially Gibsons. (some are intangible). That's where knowing what YOU like and buying on-line vs trying guitars in person present problems. Buying, or rather shopping for guitars by trying them in person is a much better way to get what you want. If you MUST buy online, knowing what YOU want and communicating that to the dealer SHOULD be the way to go. The better on=line dealers will not send you a guitar in a factory box, they will unbox it, inspect, set up (mostly), before they ship it.

 

Just a thought: I would evaluate a guitar based on feel, sound, and what it does as an instrument to be played before I decided on minor finish flaws. Then I would consider how the guitar will age and what it might look like many years later after being played a whole bunch.

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I'm sorry you are having problems with your Midtown.

Sounds like the replacement didn't fix the issue.

Q&C are two letters not found in the word GIBSON.

Or in the companies attitude for the past several years.

 

Thanks. No the replacement is worse overall IMO. I'm truly concerned that these guitars are not the exception but are the trend.

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Thank you for your reply evans.

 

It seems that this is a mail order/sight unseen scenario right?

 

I too have bitten the bullet and ordered this way. I've been very lucky. It seems that you have not. If at all possible its always best to play the guitar before buying.

Yes, mail order. I'm not close enough to a dealer to really go try them out.

 

The 1st guitar and the chip: I don't see how that could happen during shipping. You should be able to verify if the box has been opened before or not. If the retailer didn't open the box then it must have been caused at the factory.

I also don't think this happened during shipment. The box did not indicate the type of impact required and neither did the case.

 

To be honest, some of the things you mention seem trivial (the sawdust), other things are a bit annoying (having to nip up the selector ring-nut).

Agreed. I've become too picky on some things like the sawdust and pickup selector nut. I included these issues to further illustrate the situation. I truly believe I would not even be on this forum right now if it were only the chip in the headstock or the string buzzing or sawdust. These are things I can fix (or overlook) and wouldn't mind doing so but the other issues are what truly bother me.

 

can I ask if the guitar sounds good? Does it handle well? Is it a guitar you could be happy with? If the answer to any of these is 'no' then its not the guitar for you.

The first one played well and sounded great. I am worried that I should have kept that one considering what the second looks/feels like. I have not even played the second one because I know with the fret ends the way they are I will not be happy with it.

 

The Midtown is similar to the 339. In my view, the 339 is virtually a solid guitar, with a hollow body appearance. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) but the Midtown has routed chambers rather than a traditional build? If that's so its probably even more like a solidbody. Both are a far cry from a 335 you originally wanted. So is the Midtown what you want?

I thought the 339 was a laminated front/back with a center block just like the 335 but just smaller. The Midtown is essentially solid with routed chambers and a flat maple cap and f-holes. I assume the routed body with the flat top help keep the production cost down and I'm completely fine with that. The Midtown is what I can afford. I considered even the 335 Studio but is still out of my range. I like the Midtown's Burstbuckers and the rest of the Midtown sound so it works for me but if these problems are inherent to the Midtown being a "budget" Gibson then maybe I need to look elsewhere.

 

Pictures of the problem areas would be a great help I think.

I will post some pics.

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Thanks stein.

 

Most of the issues you are having are cosmetic. And seem very minor at that.

I would agree "most" are cosmetic although the second Midtown has terrible fret work. The first guitar was actually quite playable and sounded good and I fear I sent it back too soon if all the cosmetic issues are par for the course.

 

Gibsons are largely hand built, and uses a harder to work with and less durable "nitro" finish. I think a lot of the reason some Gibsons have a lot of minor cosmetic "flaws" is because they aren't trying to make a guitar perfect in these areas, and a lot of these "flaws" are present in vintage guitars as well. They aim for something that looks really nice overall, and ages well, more like traditional guitars built that way.

This is the kind of info I'm looking for. I would appreciate it if you could look at the pictures I post later and give me your opinion. Maybe I'm coming at it from the wrong place.

 

Just a thought: I would evaluate a guitar based on feel, sound, and what it does as an instrument to be played before I decided on minor finish flaws. Then I would consider how the guitar will age and what it might look like many years later after being played a whole bunch.

It could be I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Maybe these flaws are "minor" but that is why I'm here, to get other's opinions.

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Hello and welcome to this board.

 

Sorry for the two of your dissatisfying buying experiences. :( I know the feeling of being an unhappy owner of brand-new guitars or basses, including Gibson purchases in person at a dealer offering lots of options. Ironically, the four Gibsons I returned happened on my way to the eight I finally went with when buying in person a shop. I kept those seven I bought via web orders, all of them Gibsons, too. I never returned a Fender but had lots of hassle with some needing rework and repairs to be done under warranty.

 

When about finishes and bindings, Gibson is different from most other brands due to their use of nitro finishes. Applying them takes much more work and time than the polyacrylic or polyurethane coats common nowadays. Poly finishes are cured during the process within minutes using ultraviolet light, nitro will never cure. Poly makes a smooth surface and is very rugged, nitro is softer, more sensitive and becomes easier dent and scratched. On the other hand, nitro allows for touch-up repairs, and depending on finish they can be entirely invisible, in particular when only clear coat is affected. Newly applied coat dissolves the previous one and thus "melts" into it. This is since nitro coat is formed of chains. Poly finishes form an insoluble, single cross-linked high polymer molecule, creating a three-dimensional net around the coated part. A repair calls for completely stripping and refinishing.

 

Due to their comparatively soft consistency, brand-new nitro finishes don't allow for tightening screws of machine heads, pickup rings, controls, switches, or jacks. Into the bargain they shrink a little during their first months, and thus all the screws tend to go loose and call for careful retightening. I prefer that over cracked finishes or dull threads in the wood. On the other hand, a jack should be mounted firmly to its plate from the factory.

 

Honestly, I can run along the body bindings with the fingernails keeping the track on most of my Gibsons. Other than with your Midtown, on my Les Paul guitars the bindings tend to sit proud of the top, Gibson USA and Gibson Custom guitars as well. The latter are more affected, probably due to the thinner coats done by Gibson Custom although none of them is a Historic or Reissue - they are contemporary designs so to say. ;) Neck bindings are smoother, with the exception of my 1978 S-G Standard I bought used in 1980. On her neck binding also are some brown traces from the tobacco sunburst finish, but it never bothered me, and the groove along the neck binding doesn't affect playability.

 

Playability and tone have always been what counts for me, more than cosmetic details ever could. One of my MIM Fender Floyd Rose Stratocasters has a body back full of edges and ridges when viewed against the light. It has a solid colour, candy-apple red, and thus theyx could have used filler to smoothen the surface invisibly. Anyway, she plays and sounds great, so her back may have a surface like the hulk of an old fishing cutter. [biggrin]

 

When about fret ends, I'm not that picky because I don't touch them, but there's nothing smoother than the Ibanez fret end treatment. They surpass any nibs for feeling. The Ibanez Prestige models are peerless in this respect, but all the ordinary ones I own are fine, too.

 

Finally, I also love the BurstBuckers 1 & 2 and the BurstBucker Pros in two of my Les Paul guitars. The only poor Gibson pickups I ever encountered were the AlNiCo 5 DeCola Bass humbuckers fouling up tone due to heavy string pull, and these are the only Gibson pickups I ever replaced. All the others are stock, in guitar and bass builds from 1973 to 2013, and all humbuckers by the way, albeit lots with splitting options. On the contrary, I went the noiseless route on most of my Fenders and never look back.

 

Sorry for my tedious lines, but I thought your post is worth the while, let alone your desire for a nice guitar.

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These pictures were taken last night. These are only from the replacement Midtown. This is only the 2nd time I've had it out of the case so there is probably dust and whatnot still on the guitar so you can disregard any of that. I will indicate the areas that are problematic.

 

IMG_3072_zpsgxf7updn.jpg

Notice the red areas. Seems to be polishing compound but the real problem with this is there is no lacquer left in the areas that are red and you can't clean it off. Plus there is supposed to be lacquer there! It's like someone scraped off the finish. Maybe they polished a little too vigorously.

 

 

IMG_3093_zpszdrohdeg.jpg

This is the other side of the neck joint. Just doesn't look right to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

 

IMG_3076_zpsagt7cyex.jpg

Here's some of the worst of the body binding.

 

 

IMG_3074_zpstqye0jba.jpg

 

IMG_3077_zpsovrl9jhp.jpg

You can catch your fingernail on the binding here.

 

 

IMG_3079_zpscastdzau.jpg

This is quite a height difference between the wood and the binding IMO.

 

 

IMG_3096_zpsxd0mzg3b.jpg

This is some of the fret work. All of the ends protrude from the neck and some of the ends looks awful where they meet the binding.

 

 

IMG_3102_zpsjrzyowfv.jpg

There at the 17th fret marker on the binding there is a pretty big spot where there is no lacquer at all.

 

 

IMG_3082_zpsv7tibii3.jpg

Here the gap in the control panel plate. Might be nit-picking here but you could slide a penny in this gap. Same exact issue on the first Midtown but the finish didn't cover all of the gap and you could see bare wood.

 

 

I don't know but I feel like these issues are not acceptable. Please be honest and tell me what you all think. Am I being too picky? Should I send it back to the online seller and exchange it and try this all over again? Should I send it to Gibson and try for some kind of warranty claim or will they think these issues fall within their tolerances and not do anything for me?

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Please post some more pics - the guitar looks nice. Congrats on her from here! [wub][thumbup]

 

I wouldn't call you picky for complaining about that. Gibson tell "We sweat the details" on their packing slips but they don't take that too serious. I know because I can be very obsessed about subtleties, and I often have to put up with real-life situations like the backplate and the red polish. I remove the latter and live with the first. Several covers on Gibsons of mine are the same, some have a tight fit.

 

By the way, toggle switches can be addicted to contact cleaner on new Gibsons. Some of them came covered with finish dust and thus reluctant to work properly, but I never had to replace one in the past. A personal tip: Always leave the toggle switch in the middle position when not playing. This avoids fatigue of the contact tongues and helps keeping dust from the contact surfaces.

 

Everything I see so far under the clear coat are edges along the seats and fits of wooden parts. This is normal, perhaps more apparent on metallic finishes. In my opinion, the finish ripples on typical Gibson fretboard/neck/top joints, in particular on body bass sides without cutaway, look more awkward than everything I see on your guitar. All of my Les Paul and L6S guitars have that, and my glossy SGs to both sides of the highest frets. Any way, it doesn't affect feel and tone, so why care?

 

The fret ends are a different thing though. Perhaps some Gibson authorized luthier should take care of them. :unsure:

 

Honestly, I think in general this guitar is mighty fine, she could easily keep up with the construction of my Gibsons, and they are fine, too. Life's too short to waste it on inferior guitars! [biggrin]

 

Please remember I'm curious about some more pictures of your Pelham Blue Midtown Standard, and probably some other forumites would like to see them, too. There's much love for good guitar porn on this site [love][drool][blush][rolleyes]

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Good pics and explanations.

 

First thing I would say, it the binding issue on the body is actually where the different woods meet, the cap on the body being glued to the bottom. The design of this guitar doesn't really have to mean the binding should cover it or be the same thickness. It's rather just a seam that happens to be different than the binding.

 

Regarding the body wood protruding to the binding and the paint lines: It is common, VERY common, for most guitars with binding to not have them be flush, and even if they were or started life that way, age would potentially change that, as wood and plastic don't age the same, or shrink/expand the same. On some cheaper guitars with a poly finish, the finish can be, and often is applied much thicker, and it "lays down" smoother and they can be more flush, sometime perfectly flush. But on a typical nitro finish or a finish used on more ":expensive" guitars, they don't use thickness of coat to smooth things out, they aim for a thin coat, and thus, don't get "flush" there.

 

The other thing, regarding the clear coat over the binding. It SHOULD have clear coat over it, particularly the body, and the clear coat will generally be applied on the outside edge of the neck. But, this should wear off over time to some degree, ESPECIALLY on the neck binding. I have even seen some Gibsons that don't have clear coat on the neck binding at all. USUALLY, it's either blended or polishes to not see or noting the line where it stops or ends. Either way, you can, and should plan that the clear coat will wear off the binding on the neck IF YOU PLAY IT!

 

The frets ends? personally, I wouldn't put up with that if it didn't feel good to me. Some may, some may not. It might or might not be considered a "flaw", but most would say it sucks and not want that. It ISN'T how most Gibby's come, even though in making the transition from the nibs to over-the-binding fret ends like other guitar makers do, Gibson hasn't been very consistant in this area. They have only been doing it this way for a couple years, 4 years on some models.

 

A note on fretwork: even if the fretwork and frets are PERFECT coming out of the box, they won't stay that way. Once you play it, the frets wear, in all kinds of ways. They could be polished super-smooth, and the strings will scratch them. they will wear down. the crown may start round and get flattened. Basically, frets are like tires. SO: do you want to start life with imperfect frets? Personal choice here how good you need them on a new guitar. I PERSONALLY would not want to deal with the fret ends protruding (that's more work in itself to have done), so....

 

The other little cosmetic stuff, the paint lines and such, personal choice. Metallic paint shows EVERY flaw, and is harder to work with. The Midtown Standard, while still a Gibson and a quality product, is still relatively cheap compared to how much work is put into it at the factory level and what you end up with. It's a bargain, so to speak. I wouldn't expect any 1500 dollar (or so) guitar with a metallic nitro finish to be perfect. So which flaws you can see, or notice, or live with...well, how much IS the guitar worth? How much do you care? Personal choice.

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Send it back and buy something else.

 

I agree. The only way to make them do better is to make yourself happy and them unhappy, one unhappy customer at a time.

 

rct

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If you truly like the model I would exchange it for the vintage sunburst version. I bought one a few weeks ago and it has none of the flaws you pointed out. Another guy on here bought one too and zero flaws. Look at our pics on the new midtown thread in this section. Very happy with the Midtown.

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Gibson does seem to have it's bad days, or sometimes a bad run of instruments.

 

In the Midtown series, I recently purchased a used 2013 Kalamazoo, and the build quality is very high on this one. But I also had a 2011 Midtown Custom with neck issues that were seriously problematic, so you never know.

 

There's really no reason for you to compromise on your instrument, as there are so many excellent guitars out there to choose from. Send this one back, and continue the search until you find something that truly satisfies you. But don't give up on Gibson, as a good one is well worth the effort - and by all means, do consider the used market!

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Thanks for you help capmaster!

 

I wouldn't call you picky for complaining about that. Gibson tell "We sweat the details" on their packing slips but they don't take that too serious. I know because I can be very obsessed about subtleties, and I often have to put up with real-life situations like the backplate and the red polish. I remove the latter and live with the first. Several covers on Gibsons of mine are the same, some have a tight fit.

I suppose it makes me feel better that you have several Gibsons with the same issues

 

 

By the way, toggle switches can be addicted to contact cleaner on new Gibsons. Some of them came covered with finish dust and thus reluctant to work properly, but I never had to replace one in the past. A personal tip: Always leave the toggle switch in the middle position when not playing. This avoids fatigue of the contact tongues and helps keeping dust from the contact surfaces.

This one came with quite a bit of dust. Good tip on the switch.

 

 

Everything I see so far under the clear coat are edges along the seats and fits of wooden parts. This is normal, perhaps more apparent on metallic finishes. In my opinion, the finish ripples on typical Gibson fretboard/neck/top joints, in particular on body bass sides without cutaway, look more awkward than everything I see on your guitar. All of my Les Paul and L6S guitars have that, and my glossy SGs to both sides of the highest frets. Any way, it doesn't affect feel and tone, so why care?

I suppose I am worried I might be getting a bad or cheap guitar which I'm slowly realizing that I'm not. Apparently this is the way Gibson guitars are. The binding on the 2 different Midtowns I've had must be normal.

 

 

The fret ends are a different thing though. Perhaps some Gibson authorized luthier should take care of them. :unsure:

This is the real hangup on this one. The first one played fine and the frets were fine. This one is too rough I think. I am not sure about returning it or sending it to Gibson OR, as you suggest, find an authorized Gibson repairman. Would that be covered under the warranty?

 

 

Honestly, I think in general this guitar is mighty fine, she could easily keep up with the construction of my Gibsons, and they are fine, too.

This actually does make me feel better about the Midtown. I guess somewhere in the back of my mind I was thinking that this was the way Gibson cut costs on the Midtown and that it was just a crappy version of their more expensive guitars.

 

 

Please remember I'm curious about some more pictures of your Pelham Blue Midtown Standard, and probably some other forumites would like to see them, too.

LOL! I'll put some more pics up

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Thanks for your help stein!

 

First thing I would say, it the binding issue on the body is actually where the different woods meet, the cap on the body being glued to the bottom. The design of this guitar doesn't really have to mean the binding should cover it or be the same thickness. It's rather just a seam that happens to be different than the binding.

So the extra line is where the maple meets the mahogany. Makes sense.

 

 

Regarding the body wood protruding to the binding and the paint lines: It is common, VERY common, for most guitars with binding to not have them be flush, and even if they were or started life that way, age would potentially change that, as wood and plastic don't age the same, or shrink/expand the same.

I understand this... I suppose... but it's still hard for me to grasp that with routers and sanders and such you can't make the binding flush with the wood BEFORE the finish is applied. Then regardless of the type or thickness of the finish you have a smooth transition.

 

 

On some cheaper guitars with a poly finish, the finish can be, and often is applied much thicker, and it "lays down" smoother and they can be more flush, sometime perfectly flush. But on a typical nitro finish or a finish used on more ":expensive" guitars, they don't use thickness of coat to smooth things out, they aim for a thin coat, and thus, don't get "flush" there.

This is what I've noticed on "poly" guitars. Almost always perfectly smooth.

 

 

The other thing, regarding the clear coat over the binding. It SHOULD have clear coat over it, particularly the body, and the clear coat will generally be applied on the outside edge of the neck. But, this should wear off over time to some degree, ESPECIALLY on the neck binding. I have even seen some Gibsons that don't have clear coat on the neck binding at all. USUALLY, it's either blended or polishes to not see or noting the line where it stops or ends. Either way, you can, and should plan that the clear coat will wear off the binding on the neck IF YOU PLAY IT!

It will be played. I don't have enough guitars to just hang them on the wall. This second Midtown has some problems with the clear coat on the neck binding. There are areas that have clear coat and looks just fine and then other areas where it looks like it's been scraped off rather brutally. I think I'm going to post another picture of this for your opinion.

 

 

The frets ends? personally, I wouldn't put up with that if it didn't feel good to me. Some may, some may not. It might or might not be considered a "flaw", but most would say it sucks and not want that. It ISN'T how most Gibby's come, even though in making the transition from the nibs to over-the-binding fret ends like other guitar makers do, Gibson hasn't been very consistant in this area. They have only been doing it this way for a couple years, 4 years on some models.

Yeah, the frets are a problem for me. It will have to either be replaced or fixed to make me happy but that is the question, repair or replace?

 

 

A note on fretwork: even if the fretwork and frets are PERFECT coming out of the box, they won't stay that way. Once you play it, the frets wear, in all kinds of ways. They could be polished super-smooth, and the strings will scratch them. they will wear down. the crown may start round and get flattened. Basically, frets are like tires. SO: do you want to start life with imperfect frets? Personal choice here how good you need them on a new guitar. I PERSONALLY would not want to deal with the fret ends protruding (that's more work in itself to have done), so....

I'm hard on the string side of the frets (lot's of bending and vibrato) so they will not look so pretty in a few months/years but the fret ends are what's bothering me.

 

 

The other little cosmetic stuff, the paint lines and such, personal choice. Metallic paint shows EVERY flaw, and is harder to work with.

I can see that the metallic paint exacerbates the visibility of the lines where the wood is joined. Probably much less of an issue on a non-metallic color.

 

 

The Midtown Standard, while still a Gibson and a quality product, is still relatively cheap compared to how much work is put into it at the factory level and what you end up with. It's a bargain, so to speak.

This is a big thing to me. I don't want the Gibson equivalent of a Squire (which is Epiphone, right?). I don't mind the areas that make it less expensive to produce like the flat top (no carving required) and the routed solid-body (no laminated rear shell required). I just am having a hard time with some of the things I've encountered. I'm starting to get used to certain things like the binding and the glue lines but I think for this particular Midtown the neck binding issues and fret ends are going to need to be addressed.

 

 

I wouldn't expect any 1500 dollar (or so) guitar with a metallic nitro finish to be perfect. So which flaws you can see, or notice, or live with...well, how much IS the guitar worth? How much do you care? Personal choice.

I guess that is the main question I need to ask myself... do I like the Midtown enough to deal with all of this? Actually I think I already know the answer which is YES... why else would I go through this much trouble for a new guitar? If I didn’t really want a Midtown I would return it and get an Ibanez or something. I really don’t want another brand, I want a Gibson.

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Thank you all for your input!

 

Send it back and buy something else.

 

I agree. The only way to make them do better is to make yourself happy and them unhappy, one unhappy customer at a time.

 

That's unacceptable! Especially, from such a highly regarded brand as Gibson.

 

What a shame! Return it.

 

 

I very likely will return this one and try for a third time.

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If you truly like the model I would exchange it for the vintage sunburst version.

I do like the Midtown model but I also love the pelham blue and already own a sunburst guitar so I'll probably stick with it.

 

 

it has none of the flaws you pointed out

 

Another guy on here bought one too and zero flaws

REALLY?? This does bother me. If you guys are getting them with no flaws then what the heck am I getting? You think it's because you guys have the sunburst? How does your neck binding look and how do the fret ends feel?

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Gibson does seem to have it's bad days, or sometimes a bad run of instruments.

This is what I'm hoping... that I just got a bad one but now I've gotten 2 bad ones and I'm terrified of getting yet another one

 

In the Midtown series, I recently purchased a used 2013 Kalamazoo, and the build quality is very high on this one. But I also had a 2011 Midtown Custom with neck issues that were seriously problematic, so you never know.

So we know it's possible for a very high build quality.

 

There's really no reason for you to compromise on your instrument, as there are so many excellent guitars out there to choose from. Send this one back, and continue the search until you find something that truly satisfies you. But don't give up on Gibson, as a good one is well effort - and by all means, do consider the used market!

 

Yeah, I want a Gibson. I want something along the lines of a 335 or a Les Paul so the Midtown seems to suit me to a T. The used market did cross my mind but I'm not exactly in an area with a plethora of used guitars or shops.

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Thank you all for your input!

 

I very likely will return this one and try for a third time.

Yeah I would.. I can see its been really badly scrapped after the paint job.. That one pic where you can see how much lower the binding is than the body.. That's really bad...... You may have got the newbie at the factory???

 

Either way, I would expect more from Gibson....

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I think MOST of the reason many say "flawless" is because different people have different ideas of what a flawless guitar is. Different expectations.

 

For example, some go over every aspect of the finish and LOOK for flaws, while on the other extreme, some might ignore the same imperfections and never even notice them, but the guitar plays and looks and acts "perfect" for them.

 

Anyway, I think the thing to do here, is learn from the experience, deciding what is important to YOU and what isn't, and have a conversation with the dealer about it BEFORE you them send you another. That way, they can inspect, choose, and send you a guitar this time that IS everything you want. After these two, there is a good chance you know enough to be able to communicate what you will accept and what you won't.

 

Sounds to me like the fret ends are the deal here. There WOULD be some expense having them fixed, but really, you could just as easily get another one that doesn't have this issue to begin with.

 

Do NOT feel bad about sending back a guitar that doesn't meet your expectations- that's the price the dealer pays for the pleasure of doing business on-line with a return policy. If you communicate everything you want, and especially certain things you would live with, and they send you another sub-par example (according to what YOU have told them), that's on them, not you.

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I'm pretty picky. I guess I just got very lucky with my Midtown Standard. The binding and fret ends are superb, there are NO lines where the cap meets the body. None of the lines as shown in your pics. The binding is even and the fret ends are smooth and do not overhang. This neck reminds me of my 1986 Carvin DC200 Koa that was the best guitar I ever had. So much so that my beloved SG Standard 24 is now taking backseat as this thing plays better in my hands. Look at my pics in the thread New Midtown Standard. Here is the link My link

 

Scroll down as mine is the not the one of the OP, although he is happy with his too.

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