Midtown Standard Problems

[wordsworth_jlg]

Yeah I would.. I can see its been really badly scrapped after the paint job.. That one pic where you can see how much lower the binding is than the body.. That's really bad...... You may have got the newbie at the factory???

 

Either way, I would expect more from Gibson....

Yes, exactly. I did expect more. I'm somewhat familiar with what goes into the scraping of the binding and I would think it can be done much better than that.

[capmaster]

I'm pretty picky. I guess I just got very lucky with my Midtown Standard. The binding and fret ends are superb, there are NO lines where the cap meets the body. None of the lines as shown in your pics. The binding is even and the fret ends are smooth and do not overhang. This neck reminds me of my 1986 Carvin DC200 Koa that was the best guitar I ever had. So much so that my beloved SG Standard 24 is now taking backseat as this thing plays better in my hands. Look at my pics in the thread New Midtown Standard. Here is the link My link

 

Scroll down as mine is the not the one of the OP, although he is happy with his too.

Very nice catches indeed, yours as well as that of the related OP. Beautiful Midtown Bursts!

[wordsworth_jlg]

I think MOST of the reason many say "flawless" is because different people have different ideas of what a flawless guitar is. Different expectations.

 

For example, some go over every aspect of the finish and LOOK for flaws, while on the other extreme, some might ignore the same imperfections and never even notice them, but the guitar plays and looks and acts "perfect" for them.

I understand what you are saying. One person's problem may not even occur to another. One example is this

If you look very closely there is a tiny hair or fiber on the binding and this is under the finish. Something that I was not so bothered with. The un-level binding bothers me much more although it is bothering me less now that I know this is normal for a Gibson but I still wonder if this one shouldn't be on outside of their tolerances. I know they scrape the color coat off of the binding before clear coat but in my opinion they have scraped far more of the binding than necessary.

 

 

Anyway, I think the thing to do here, is learn from the experience, deciding what is important to YOU and what isn't, and have a conversation with the dealer about it BEFORE you them send you another. That way, they can inspect, choose, and send you a guitar this time that IS everything you want. After these two, there is a good chance you know enough to be able to communicate what you will accept and what you won't.

 

Do NOT feel bad about sending back a guitar that doesn't meet your expectations- that's the price the dealer pays for the pleasure of doing business on-line with a return policy. If you communicate everything you want, and especially certain things you would live with, and they send you another sub-par example (according to what YOU have told them), that's on them, not you.

This is great advice. I will have a detailed conversation with them for sure.

[wordsworth_jlg]

I'm pretty picky. I guess I just got very lucky with my Midtown Standard. The binding and fret ends are superb, there are NO lines where the cap meets the body. None of the lines as shown in your pics. The binding is even and the fret ends are smooth and do not overhang. This neck reminds me of my 1986 Carvin DC200 Koa that was the best guitar I ever had. So much so that my beloved SG Standard 24 is now taking backseat as this thing plays better in my hands. Look at my pics in the thread New Midtown Standard. Here is the link My link

 

Scroll down as mine is the not the one of the OP, although he is happy with his too.

They are fine looking guitars for sure. I envy you my friend and I hope to end up with a pelham blue version of the quality Midtown you have. I'm sure it's a bit easier to hide some of the lines on the sunburst model due to the dark finish around the neck joint and the maple cap. I at least want mine closer than it is now. We will see...

[wordsworth_jlg]

Here are a few more pictures (good and bad)

 

 

This pic below really shows the worst part about this particular guitar. The binding on the neck here is so badly scraped I still have trouble believing what I see.

 

 

 

Below is another view but I added some arrows to show how large the area is. The red arrows point to the area where the finish (and decent chunk of the binding as well) have been scraped away. The green arrow points to a brown glob and I'm not sure what it is but it doesn't wipe off.

 

 

 

For comparison below is a pic of the other end of the neck binding which I assume is how it's supposed to look.

 

 

 

Here are a couple of pics that I think are interesting but also fair as well. They compare my guitar with a picture of an online store's guitar. It's very possible these are images sent to dealers from Gibson but maybe not. Either way some of the issues don't seem to exist on the dealer pics as they do on mine.

 

Below is a comparison of the back plates. The online store's version is a tad rough around the edges but I don't see the huge gap that's been on both of my Midtowns. Interesting to note is a red glob of polishing compound at the top right side of the plate of the online store's picture of the guitar.

 

 

 

Below is a comparison of the neck joints and the upper neck binding. When comparing these 2 pictures it's obvious to me that the guitar I have was not scraped correctly as there is quite a bit of color coat left where it should have been scraped away. Going by the online store pic the color has been completely removed from the binding which looks much better and doesn't allow for the extra lines to show up in the color coat because those lines are transitions between binding and color. This way you have 1 line instead of 2 per transition. Also you can see how the black-dot, 19th fret marker does not touch the color coat on the online store guitar while on the one I have it does.

 

 

 

To be fair it is a beautiful guitar despite the issues. Here are a couple of pics showing the sweet pelham blue finish

[wordsworth_jlg]

So I sent it back to the online store and they are sending me another one. I hope I get a good one this time. I will post an update when I get it. Should be soon.

[merciful-evans]

So I sent it back to the online store and they are sending me another one. I hope I get a good one this time. I will post an update when I get it. Should be soon.

 

Fingers crossed. Good Luck!

[Kaiser Bill]

I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I was when my Midtown Kalamazoo arrived. I could have cried. I was fully expecting an arch top. Instead I got a very heavy bread board. I would have returned it except it was a gift from my wife. That would have broken her heart. Mostly now I just take it out of the case...play a few riffs and put it back. Still very disappointed in the guitar. It will be three years this November that I've had it. Maybe I've played it five times?? Total waste of $1,500.

[wordsworth_jlg]

I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I was when my Midtown Kalamazoo arrived. I could have cried. I was fully expecting an arch top. Instead I got a very heavy bread board. I would have returned it except it was a gift from my wife. That would have broken her heart. Mostly now I just take it out of the case...play a few riffs and put it back. Still very disappointed in the guitar. It will be three years this November that I've had it. Maybe I've played it five times?? Total waste of $1,500.

 

Sorry to hear that. I was aware that it was a flat top guitar when I bought mine and was fine with it knowing it's a less expensive production technique and should translate into a high quality hollow body for less money but less fancy. My issues are build and finish quality but I was happy with the look and tone of the guitar overall.

 

Is the construction quality on yours fairly good? As in level binding and fret edge, etc?

[bobouz]

I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I was when my Midtown Kalamazoo arrived. I could have cried. I was fully expecting an arch top. Instead I got a very heavy bread board. I would have returned it except it was a gift from my wife. That would have broken her heart. Mostly now I just take it out of the case...play a few riffs and put it back. Still very disappointed in the guitar. It will be three years this November that I've had it. Maybe I've played it five times?? Total waste of $1,500.

It would be nice if you could find a way to let the Kalamazoo go, so it can get into the hands of someone who'll actually enjoy it. With it's limited production run in 2013, the model is rare & the 23.5" scale is difficult to come by.

 

I'd been eyeing this particular guitar since it was first released. I didn't buy it at the time, and in the ensuing years it has become rather hard to find. Fortunately, one turned up used a few months ago in near mint condition, and I'm thrilled to have added it to my collection. Build quality is excellent on this example, and overall playability with the short scale is truly outstanding.

[wordsworth_jlg]

It would be nice if you could find a way to let the Kalamazoo go, so it can get into the hands of someone who'll actually enjoy it. With it's limited production run in 2013, the model is rare & the 23.5" scale is difficult to come by.

 

I'd been eyeing this particular guitar since it was first released. I didn't buy it at the time, and in the ensuing years it has become rather hard to find. Fortunately, one turned up used a few months ago in near mint condition, and I'm thrilled to have added it to my collection. Build quality is excellent on this example, and overall playability with the short scale is truly outstanding.

Glad you could scoop a Kalamazoo up for your collection. Also glad to hear the build quality is excellent. Don't see many guitars with a short scale like that.

[wordsworth_jlg]

Just received the THIRD Midtown and this one is an improvement for sure over the second one. There are some issues but I need to go over it and decided what I will/won't tolerate and if there is anything that warrants another exchange or even a shipment to Gibson for warranty work.

 

I may post some pictures to get some more of your much valued opinions. I appreciated hearing other's input since I'm not a seasoned Gibson owner.

[Kaiser Bill]

Here are a couple photos of my Midtown...earning me some money...LOL Great looking guitar, but not what I wish it was at all. The coil tap features are just sad.

 

 

 

[bobouz]

Here are a couple photos of my Midtown...earning me some money...LOL Great looking guitar, but not what I wish it was at all. The coil tap features are just sad.

I generally lean strongly towards a P90 tone, but thus far in my experimentation with the Kalamazoo, I would agree that the coil taps don't tonally do the trick. I've found the middle position untapped to be the most satisfying. Beyond that, the big draw for me with this instrument is it's effortless playability (but Gibsons can of course vary from one example to the next).

 

From what I've run across, many Kalamazoo owners are quite taken by the instrument, but as in your case Bill, some have expressed not being able to connect with it. This model is a rather unique animal, with an unusual combination of features & specs. Stands to reason that it would illicit a wide variety of opinions.

[212West]

My 2015 Midtown Standard and my 2014 SG Standard are Above and Beyond what I expected.

Both have Great necks, good Mojo n' sonic vibe with sustain for Dayssss!!!

Sorry to hear of all of the trouble

[SGgypsyboy]

Just received the THIRD Midtown and this one is an improvement for sure over the second one. There are some issues but I need to go over it and decided what I will/won't tolerate and if there is anything that warrants another exchange or even a shipment to Gibson for warranty work.

 

I may post some pictures to get some more of your much valued opinions. I appreciated hearing other's input since I'm not a seasoned Gibson owner.

 

So what's the outcome here? Are you keeping it? What were the issues with this third one?

[SGgypsyboy]

Crickets chirping....

[wordsworth_jlg]

So after having the guitar for a week or so and going over it and playing it I have decided to keep this one. Mostly because this one plays nicely and I really want a Gibson hollow body and this is apparently as good as it gets for a pelham blue Midtown Standard so I'll keep it.

 

This one still has it's issues and they're along the same lines as the previous ones. Some areas have improved and some are worse.

 

This is how the guitar arrived to me:

Notice the missing pickup selector tip. I found it rattling around in the bottom f-hole. Not a big deal though.

 

But... notice the headstock wrapped in bubble wrap. I don't think Gibson did this. I asked the online dealer to inspect the guitar before they shipped it so I suppose someone thought it was a good idea to wrap the headstock in bubble wrap after the inspection.

 

I think they did more harm than good as there are noticeable scuffs on the headstock:

Is there an easy was to polish these scuffs out?

 

 

 

The low E string was wrapped around the peg the wrong way. Again not a big deal but shows lack of attention to detail:

 

 

 

Some of the same issues with the binding are present on this one. These pics show the unevenness on the neck binding:

 

 

 

The worst part of this guitar is a spot of the neck binding that shows the binding is not level and corresponds to the fret ends. Not sure how this happened but it's kind of ugly when your eye catches it:

By the way the fret ends are much, much better than the previous guitar. More like the first one I received.

 

 

 

Here's a pic of the neck joint which is basically invisible. Also notice the masking of the binding is straight unlike the previous one:

Very nice!

 

 

 

The control plate cover is much better and you can see no spaces between the plastic and the cavity:

 

 

 

There is an issue with a bump in the panel:

Looks like there might be something stuck under the panel but I have not removed it to see.

[wordsworth_jlg]

This is an issue that I think can be fixed but I haven't tried yet. The volume and tone knobs are not all at the same height. This pic shows the neck pickup tone knob with a guitar pick for height reference:

 

This one shows the bridge pickup tone knob:

There is quite a drastic difference in the space between the knobs and the body. None of the previous Midtowns had this problem.

 

 

 

Some of this stuff is fixable and some of it is not so fixable. Some of it (like the binding) seems like par for the course and some of it is just lacking attention to detail (string wound backwards, tone-knob height).

 

Again, I've decided that I want a Gibson hollow body and until I can afford a higher end model that isn't plagued with these issues I will learn to live with them.

 

I never meant to bash Gibson during this thread and I hope I have been respectful despite the criticism. I hope that this thread is a help to someone else out there who might be wondering about the quality of Gibson guitars in this price range (or in general).

 

If anyone has suggestions or advice on these issues please let me know. I have surely appreciated the help and feedback I've received so far.

[Achilles Papamoschos]

looks nice ...if she costs 200 dollars

[sok66]

Geez, dude, yours is a very sad tale. We all expect more from Gibson. Sadly, Henry's Gibson has apparently suffered the same fate as Norlin Gibson of the 60s & 70s. Quality issues due to cost cutting, an unhappy workforce, production quotas, etc. You'd never see that kind of mess in an Asian-made guitar costing a fraction of that.

 

So, I await the arrival of a "scratch & dent" Midtown Standard LE in sunburst from AMS. The price was great, but it was sold a a "scratch & dent." Fit & finish-wise I expect it's going to be like your first two. ZZounds is offering the same deal, and calls theirs "blems." I suspect Gib-O had a run of dogs and just blew them out to the dealers to get some cost back. If it can be set up to play well that's all I'm looking for. These are fairly close in spec to Fender's old Ibanez made Esprit/Robben Ford models, one of my favorites all time. I have one that I hesitate to take out any longer as they've appreciated and are fairly hard to find. The Custom Shop versions (out of production) are gorgeous, but actually don't have the tone of the first gen models.

 

I have been around Gibsons since 1960 and have had a love/hate affair with them since the late 60s. In '69 I started running te guitar dept at my local music store. Armed with a 40% store discount I ordered an L5 in natural. It arrived some weeks later from Kalamazoo with a natural top, but walnut back & sides. Close inspection showed the back to becovered in numerous spots of filler, likely from somone rolling the body over a screw, etc. Over & above that the board wasn't flat above the 12th, there were numerous flaws in the binding & other details. I should have refused delivery, but being young & excited I took it anyway. My Gibson rep refused to do anythng about it. I never let him forget it. A few years later I bought a new ES335 that must have been the worst one they ever made. Same old, same old with Gibson. Like a beautiful woman you love madly who always has a cold and has a bad temper.

[sok66]

Geez, dude, yours is a very sad tale. We all expect more from Gibson. Sadly, Henry's Gibson has apparently suffered the same fate as Norlin Gibson of the 60s & 70s. Quality issues due to cost cutting, an unhappy workforce, production quotas, etc. You'd never see that kind of mess in an Asian-made guitar costing a fraction of that.

 

So, I await the arrival of a Midtown Standard LE in sunburst from AMS. The price was great, but it was sold a a "scratch & dent." Fit & finish-wise I expect it's going to be like your first two. ZZounds is offering the same deal, and calls theirs "blems." I suspect Gib-O had a run of dogs and just blew them out to the dealers to get some cost back. If it can be set up to play well that's all I'm looking for. These are fairly close in spec to Fender's old Ibanez made Esprit/Robben Ford models, one of my favorites all time. I have one that I hesitate to take out any longer as they've appreciated and are fairly hard to find. The Custom Shop versions (out of production) are gorgeous, but actually don't have the tone of the first gen models.

 

I have been around Gibsons since 1960 and have had a love/hate affair with them since the late 60s. In '69 I started running te guitar dept at my local music store. Armed with a 40% store discount I ordered an L5 in natural. It arrived some weeks later from Kalamazoo with a natural top, but walnut back & sides. Close inspection showed the back to becovered in numerous spots of filler, likely from somone rolling the body over a screw, etc. Over & above that the board wasn't flat above the 12th, there were numerous flaws in the binding & other details. I should have refused delivery, but being young & excited I took it anyway. My Gibson rep refused to do anythng about it. I never let him forget it. A few years later I bought a new ES335 that must have been the worst one they ever made. Same old, same old with Gibson. Like a beautiful woman you love madly who always has a cold and has a bad temper.

[sok66]

I read this AFTER I'd ordered a "Scratch & Dent" Midtown Standard LE from an online retailer. You guys had me scared about the Midtown but mine arrived in outstanding condition. No build quality issues anywhere other than a loose jack nut. Setup was near perfect, just had to adjust a few things to my preferences, restring and go. Says on the headstock it's a 2015 model. Has Grover machine heads, not that G-Froce thing. I can't find a single thing that would suggest to me anyone had ever played it before I got it. The box had been opened, but that was it. I swapped out the knobs and switch tip for some reflectors and an amber I had in my stash. Time will tell, but I only paid $749 for the thing and at this point I'm thinking I may have gotten the steal of the year!

[Kenny V]

I have owned a Midtown when they first came out. The guitar was flawless. No problems at all. I did play the guitar before I bought it. Having said that, If you don't like the guitar by all means send it back for another Midtown.. Third times a charm.

[Airedale1]

The OP had me nervous about getting a Midtown. Especially given the fact that I would be buying one sight unseen over the internet. Generally speaking I like to hold a guitar, look it over very carefully and play it before I buy it. That being said, I threw caution to the wind and ordered a 2015 Midtown Standard in Vintage Sunburst. Well, I have to say I am blown away by this guitar. Everything about it is awesome! Fit and finish are top notch. That being said, I immediately swapped out the GForce tuners for Grovers and I changed the strings to a heavier set (w/wound G string)and it plays and sounds amazing!

 

I will post up some pics of it very soon. Until then here is a pic of one that I never should have sold. My 1980 Gibson ES Artist.