If Epiphone wasn't called Epiphone would you buy one instead of a Gibson?

[Matt.taylor14]

Okay, so I read a forum basically about the difference between Gibson guitars and Epiphone guitars.

 

My question is, what if Epiphone changed its name to a more premium sounding name (on par with Gibson), would it make you tempted to buy more of them because the product sounds more professional and rebuild a reputation Epiphone had before it became "budget" Gibsons?

 

Also, if you would agree that a change of name may sound better for Epiphone, what would you change it too?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[SG player]

A Gibson is made in USA

 

An Epiphone is an Epiphone

[Cougar]

Changing the name on the headstock isn't going to change the sound coming out of the guitar. Less expensive Epiphones let people who can't afford a Gibson own a "near-Gibson." Putting a Gibson headstock on an Epiphone won't make it a Gibson, though.

[Matt.taylor14]

Changing the name on the headstock isn't going to change the sound coming out of the guitar. Less expensive Epiphones let people who can't afford a Gibson own a "near-Gibson." Putting a Gibson headstock on an Epiphone won't make it a Gibson, though.

 

I bought my first electric guitar 1 year ago, an Epiphone Les Paul Special 2. Sounds cheap and looks it but I can get the same sounds out of it as other can get through Gibsons.

 

The main purpose of this thread is to see if Epiphone made a few changes, (like a more premium name and inlays instead of paint and a bit more care in QC) would it get rid of the tarnished reputation Epiphone has amongst guitar snobs who look down on Epiphones?

[charlie brown]

Epiphone WAS a "Premium" name, for decades! Gibson, when they purchased Epiphone, marginalized it,

by (first) pricing it somewhat lower, even when they made them right along side the regular Gibson

guitars, in Kalamazoo! That marginalization really took a hit, when they decided to have ALL Epi's

made in Asia. Therefore, relegating them to the "Asian Import" status, or lack thereof. The worst

era was the "bold on neck" Casino's and Riviera moniker'd models, which only had the Epiphone name,

in common with the original Casino and Riviera spec's. That, was the low point, IMHO. And, one

that took a long time, to overcome. Current made "Asia" Epi's are probably the best they've ever

been, being produced in Asia, that is. The USA made "Special Runs" we sometimes get, are every bit

as good, maybe even better(?), than the original USA versions. They don't need to change the name,

or brand. Just continue making the best versions they can, regardless of country of origin. "I"

would love to see them use ALL "Kalamazoo" spec's, once again. But, that's just Me!

 

CB

[brad1]

I do not, never have, and never will by a guitar because of it's name.

I have 4 Epiphones. If their name was different, I still would probably have 4.

 

And I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that Gibson is a more professional sounding name than Epiphone.

[Matt.taylor14]

I do not, never have, and never will by a guitar because of it's name.

I have 4 Epiphones. If their name was different, I still would probably have 4.

 

And I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that Gibson is a more professional sounding name than Epiphone.

 

It's not how I came to the conclusion, it's how Gibson is associated with professionals and not Epiphone is rarely used by big stars as they all use Gibson guitars.

[LPS1976]

It's not how I came to the conclusion, it's how Gibson is associated with professionals and not Epiphone is rarely used by big stars as they all use Gibson guitars.

 

not true

[SG player]

I bought my first electric guitar 1 year ago, an Epiphone Les Paul Special 2. Sounds cheap and looks it but I can get the same sounds out of it as other can get through Gibsons.

 

 

 

Nice joke, very funny

[burchster]

I buy Epiphones based on there heritage and affordable quality. The name has nothing to do with it. Honestly some people are the biggest snobs about how Epiphones are cheap and people that play them are somehow inferior. I love my Gibson SG but you just can't beat the value of Epis especially if you want multiple guitars on a working budget that are easily replaced if stolen or lost. A lot of people whine about the headstock shapes but let's face it, you aren't gonna see an open book headstock on Epiphones in the US. I personally like the elist sg headstocks.

[deeman]

If they change the name to 'Premier Guitars' and nothing else changes. The perception will be the same, perhaps a little worse in my opinion.

 

I would look at 'Premier Guitars' as a brand owned by Gibson that makes all their guitars in china/asia and is the affordable 'entry level' Gibson.

 

At least with the Epiphone brand you have the history of great American made guitars, and artists like The Beatles associated with it.

[Matt.taylor14]

If they change the name to 'Premier Guitars' and nothing else changes. The perception will be the same, perhaps a little worse in my opinion.

 

I would look at 'Premier Guitars' as a brand owned by Gibson that makes all their guitars in china/asia and is the affordable 'entry level' Gibson.

 

At least with the Epiphone brand you have the history of great American made guitars, and artists like The Beatles associated with it.

 

Very true there are great historic artist associated with Epiphone and it's history is very grand. So shouldn't we be asking Gibson why it isn't being treated as luxuriously as Gibson itself?

[LPS1976]

Very true there are great historic artist associated with Epiphone and it's history is very grand. So shouldn't we be asking Gibson why it isn't being treated as luxuriously as Gibson itself?

 

I guess the next question is - what makes you say Gibson is being hailed as luxurious?

[Matt.taylor14]

I guess the next question is - what makes you say Gibson is being hailed as luxurious?

 

Small things like good quality QC, the fact that you get a case when you buy a guitar and that they come with documentation and certification that it has passed QC and the hologram on the back to say it's a real Gibson but Epiphones don't get that (unless it's one of the rare models that gets a case or it's a competition prize) and things like that make it seem less of an experience as to opening up a Gibson case where the lining smells very nice.

[LPS1976]

Small things like good quality QC, the fact that you get a case when you buy a guitar and that they come with documentation and certification that it has passed QC and the hologram on the back to say it's a real Gibson but Epiphones don't get that (unless it's one of the rare models that gets a case or it's a competition prize) and things like that make it seem less of an experience as to opening up a Gibson case where the lining smells very nice.

 

the QC thing varies. you get bad Gibsons the same as you get bad Epiphones. granted you may come across more bad Epiphones because they produce thousands of guitars more a year than Gibson. I think it comes down to personal experience in this case. for me personally, I don't need a hologram. cases are nice to get with a guitar but it's never been a deal breaker. I'm not buying guitars to smell cases but I see where you're coming from.

[deeman]

Very true there are great historic artist associated with Epiphone and it's history is very grand. So shouldn't we be asking Gibson why it isn't being treated as luxuriously as Gibson itself?

 

Price point. As far as branding goes, Gibson I'm sure needed to offer instruments at a lower price point but also did not want to weaken the brand. So by rebranding the made in china and korea Les Pauls, SG's, ES models etc to Epiphone, they are able to offer guitars starting at $100 to about $1,000 or so. As we all know, the Gibson price points then start about $700 to the tens of thousands.

 

Fender decided to move production to mexico but still brand the guitars as Fender. I think that hurts the brand. There is a difference between USA and Mexico guitars, but not that much. Plus, you see someone playing a fender and without checking the serial number and such, you wouldn't know if it was made in America or Mexico. With the Gibson and Epiphone distinction the difference between the Gibson and Epiphone are similar to the difference between Mexico and USA Fenders but if you see the Gibson logo on a guitar you know it is the real deal, therefore the brand is stronger than Fender in my opinion.

 

But I'm just some guy on the internet and that is my 2 cents.

['Scales]

Good summary Deeman.

 

Epiphone at least is a brand with heritage so you get that with your less expensive instrument which you don't get with a 'Casino' or an 'SX' or any of the other multitude of 'affordable' guitars, and they still do make some top quality instruments like Elites.

 

Gibson is the name of a local plumber here, so you get to see that name on white vans regularly...I don't see the name as having inherent prestige outside of guitars.

[brad1]

Look, the bottom line is that the name is not significant.

The only reason the "Gibson" name sounds more "professional" to you is because you know it's reputation.

If it's original name was Epiphone then you would think that name sounds more professional.

It's all what you are used to.

Gibson did not make it to the top of the guitar world because it's name was Gibson.

 

A guitar manufacturer could be named "Tonedead"...and if it sounded and played like a Gibson, and cost less, there would be people buying the hell out of them.

You can bet your *** on that. :)

[stein]

I am not sure I understand the question.

 

The "Epiphone" name is actually about as prestigious as you are likely to get, while at the same time, identifying a less expensive cheaper made guitar.

 

If you didn't know your guitars, one could see a modern Epiphone and not know if it is a vintage Gibson made one, a vintage USA made New York Epiphone, or an inexpensive Chinese model.

 

Where the Epiphone name says "cheap" to some? It's a brand for inexpensive guitars. Among guitars in the same price point, most hold those branded "Epiphone" in a higher regard than most others. About the only thing re-branding them MIGHT sway some is if the Gibson copies by Epiphone were branded "Gibson". But that would only serve to let some pretend they have an actual Gibson, but it would be the same guitar.

 

Looking at it from the other direction, people pay big bucks for vintage Epiphones, partly BECAUSE they say "Epiphone". Many ALSO pat big bucks for more expensive higher end Epiphone's made in Japan or limited USA runs, again, partly because they say "Epiphone" on them.

 

I think it's perception, but I think most think of the Epiphone brand as an honest product. I don't see how a different branding could improve upon that.

[stein]

 

Fender decided to move production to mexico but still brand the guitars as Fender. I think that hurts the brand. There is a difference between USA and Mexico guitars, but not that much. Plus, you see someone playing a fender and without checking the serial number and such, you wouldn't know if it was made in America or Mexico. With the Gibson and Epiphone distinction the difference between the Gibson and Epiphone are similar to the difference between Mexico and USA Fenders but if you see the Gibson logo on a guitar you know it is the real deal, therefore the brand is stronger than Fender in my opinion.

 

But I'm just some guy on the internet and that is my 2 cents.

I don't know about that.

 

The relationship between Mexican and USA Fenders is not anything like the relationship between Epi and Gibson. I think if there is that perception, it is one borrowed from the Gibson/Epiphone reputation, and or the Fender/Squier relationship.

 

Fender DID do two things: They DID re-brand the cheaper Squier guitars as Fenders, AND they also had a line of better and "standard" guitars, as well as reissues that were Fenders made in Japan.

 

The move to Mexico, or also, the opening of Mexican factories is more similar to the relationship between American car manufacturing and Mexico. It's more like a case of cashing in on the free trade agreements (wages, taxes, regulations) to make parts (and guitars) cheaper while still retaining a degree of "American made". They do make the cheaper models there (obviously), but there has been a lot of mixing between the two, as to what parts are made where and what guitars are made with what parts.

 

Which gets back to your origonal point: The Epi brand and the Gibson brand have always been kept separate, where as the Fender brand goes on EVERYTHING they make, so the fact it says "Fender" on it really doesn't equate to a quality level or even what the guitar actually IS. But not only that, but there isn't even a better or worse quality line between American, Japanese, Mexican or other Asian to draw a clear line either.

['Scales]

One thing that Gibson could do, IF they considered there was value to raise the Epiphone brand prestige a bit, could be to insert a budget brand beneath a certain level of Epiphone. For example (and no offence intended to anyone's instrument) - say they reintroduced the old 'Kalamazoo' brand as the price leader, then you might have a situation where guitars like the G400, Les Paul Studio, Dot Studio and above were continued to be branded Epiphone, whereas guitars like the G310, LP100, LP Special 2 etc could be branded as Kalamazoo.

 

That way Epiphone would go from being Gibson's 'baseline' guitars (even though stuff like Elites aren't in any way basic) to being Gibsons 'midline' guitars - quite prestigious, whilst Kalamazoo given its (albeit moderate) heritage would stand out from the crowd in the cheaper/baseline guitar market.

 

That to me would be a better way (without thinking on it to much...)

[Dennis G]

I do not, never have, and never will by a guitar because of it's name.

I have 4 Epiphones. If their name was different, I still would probably have 4.

This pretty much says it all. I have an Elitist Casino, Wildkat, highly modded Dot, and a Masterbilt acoustic (among others). I also have a Gibby LP Standard, along with a few other mfgrs (Fender, Gretsch, Carvin, Ovation, et al). I'd probably own the Epi's even if their name was whatever, and probably the same for the Gibby. The name doesn't get me, the guitar does.

[Pete B]

Simple, I would put Gibson pickups in an Epi. I just don't like nitro finish and will never buy a guitar with it.

[Tone+Volume]

I have taken apart two Epiphones and rebuilt them with quality parts. I am a new guitar player and a known dummy so my knowledge and opinion are limited. I noticed something right away. ALL parts I replaced were cheap... and I replaced ALL of the parts. I wanted to feel and learn a guitar. I could really tell a big difference in every piece. The metals...the plastics ... The wiring. In Basic Epiphones ALL parts are cheaper than gibson parts. I did a lot of research and it all fell in line with my two experiments. Epi's ...Can they kick but? you bet you. Can they be made better? HECK yeah!

To the original question. I bought mine because of the name Epiphone. I can not afford a Gibson. I knew That name had good bones but saved money with cheaper parts. I knew I could afford a good platform to build a kick but guitar with.

 

 

I bet some new fingers prob would make my guitar better. I need to upgrade my fingers. Anyone know a website?

 

Parts are Parts you know...they don't lie.

[deeman]

Simple, I would put Gibson pickups in an Epi. I just don't like nitro finish and will never buy a guitar with it.

 

Good point