frets

[btoth76]

Well if i bought a brand new car i would expect that the steering wheel would be smooth enough to grip it without sharp edges making me feel im getting cut, but i understand your point, basically deal with it right. That tool looks perfect.

 

Depends where You are driving it. Which model it is...

 

Let's say, You bought a car with sophisticated multi-link front suspension. You are driving it on poorly maintained roads. It will require special attention.

 

Same with guitars. A fragile wooden construction in an environment with ever-changing temperature and humidity conditions, will require lots of care.

 

Bence.

[Jshort]

Is your room dry? Maybe it shrunk because of very low humidity and re-hydrating it might help or possibly oiling the fretboard since Gibson is now oiling the fretboards on their 2016 models. I wouldn't go removing fret material so quickly but that is just my opinion.

 

One thing I have noticed is the rosewood on a Studio is of much lower grade than say the Traditional model for obvious reasons so maybe a lower grade rosewood requires more care, I don't know.

[Roach]

Is your room dry? Maybe it shrunk because of very low humidity and re-hydrating it might help or possibly oiling the fretboard since Gibson is now oiling the fretboards on their 2016 models. I wouldn't go removing fret material so quickly but that is just my opinion.

 

One thing I have noticed is the rosewood on a Studio is of much lower grade than say the Traditional model for obvious reasons so maybe a lower grade rosewood requires more care, I don't know.

 

I think they went cheap on the frets too...just changed strings and noticed that the frets i use most, are worn, seems like, too much I have been playing a couple hours a day...so idk. Since october. The fretboard did look sort of dry, only in a few spots, but not alarming. The room is hot and humid yes. i keep it in the case and the case out of the light, but its still an upstairs room in california with no ac in the house.

[capmaster]

I still don't know if Gibson used stainless steel frets for your 2015 guitar. This would mean they are sensititve to stress corrosion cracking when chloride is present like in sweat. Some nickel silver frets are sensitive to stress crack corrosion when ammonia is present, not very likely as long as nobody pees over your fretboard.

 

Gibson claimed they tested cryogenically treated frets using a bending machine and found out they last four times longer. Unfortunately the bending machine didn't sweat I think. Though martensitic stainless steel created by cryogenical treatment is basically not susceptible to stress crack corrosion, there always will be some austenitic material left, and probably exposed by fret dressing. Once the austenitic phase is affected, the process can't be stopped anymore.

 

If you have a guitar with stainless steel frets, avoid bending strings like the plague.

 

In case of refretting a guitar or having her refretted, avoid stainless steel frets like the plague if you like doing string bendings.

 

Sad, but true.

[pappy]

I too have experienced the above described frets grabbing your hand on the ends of the frets. I have the studio hot rod and thought it was just me but I see that some folk are having a similar problem. we are in an extremely humid area,but house is A/C,and guitar stays in case when not being played. I may take it to my luthier,and have him check it out. The more I read in these forums the more I realize that there is a lot to learn. Just wrote it off as to bad playing technique.But then again that may be true.

[Roach]

I too have experienced the above described frets grabbing your hand on the ends of the frets. I have the studio hot rod and thought it was just me but I see that some folk are having a similar problem. we are in an extremely humid area,but house is A/C,and guitar stays in case when not being played. I may take it to my luthier,and have him check it out. The more I read in these forums the more I realize that there is a lot to learn. Just wrote it off as to bad playing technique.But then again that may be true.

 

I thought the same about my technique cause after 41 years of fiddling around with guitars off and on i just learned how to properly hold a pick!!! My excuse was , "but im a drummer," but i think i have graduated to guitar player now since i am now capable of holding an alternate picking pattern steady for more than a few measures, hahaha also i have another les paul to compare the edges of the frets to. In fact, that guitar, (2000 lp special w/hums), has even had part of the fretboard sanded off and the frets dont bite me like my 2015 studio does.

 

So its not you is my theory, weak as my theory might be.

 

And Cap, i am pretty sure from your response that i have stainless because the wear i see is exactly where i bend the most. like the g string 4th fret, the B bend up to ?, whatever sounds good, when playing an A chord with first finger. I dont think you can tell from this pic but you can look and see.

 

https://gyazo.com/48c1a0fe2f24574c737fb8624128dcb9

[pappy]

I thought the same about my technique cause after 41 years of fiddling around with guitars off and on i just learned how to properly hold a pick!!! My excuse was , "but im a drummer," but i think i have graduated to guitar player now since i am now capable of holding an alternate picking pattern steady for more than a few measures, hahaha also i have another les paul to compare the edges of the frets to. In fact, that guitar, (2000 lp special w/hums), has even had part of the fretboard sanded off and the frets dont bite me like my 2015 studio does.

 

So its not you is my theory, weak as my theory might be.

 

And Cap, i am pretty sure from your response that i have stainless because the wear i see is exactly where i bend the most. like the g string 4th fret, the B bend up to ?, whatever sounds good, when playing an A chord with first finger. I dont think you can tell from this pic but you can look and see.

 

https://gyazo.com/48...37fb8624128dcb9

I also have a LP and the frets are perfect,not one problem playing the LP.

[Roach]

I also have a LP and the frets are perfect,not one problem playing the LP.

 

i can promise all of you this:

My next guitar purchase will be made with a more educated, patient, selective, logical, choice than this one was. But i must be clear on this. Even with these issues, I am still extremely pleased with my new guitar, and even when i purchased it, I expected to get a higher end model later on, when i believe my skills justify spending that higher end amount of money.

I have learned so much about what my requirements will be next time... higher end wood to start, top quality frets, the neck shape, the nut, the pickups, and next time if i am couple hundred short of exactly what i want, ill wait. OH and a dam pickguard that mounts without the screws in the body of guitar cause i understand the only way to get that is to buy it on a guitar. Gibson refuses to sell me the p/u rings it requires,and pickgaurd

[merciful-evans]

I still don't know if Gibson used stainless steel frets for your 2015 guitar. This would mean they are sensititve to stress corrosion cracking when chloride is present like in sweat. Some nickel silver frets are sensitive to stress crack corrosion when ammonia is present, not very likely as long as nobody pees over your fretboard.

 

Gibson claimed they tested cryogenically treated frets using a bending machine and found out they last four times longer. Unfortunately the bending machine didn't sweat I think. Though martensitic stainless steel created by cryoganical treatment is basically not susceptible to stress crack corrosion, there always will be some austenitic material left, and probably exposed by fret dressing. Once the austenitic phase is affected, the process can't be stopped anymore.

 

If you have a guitar with stainless steel frets, avoid bending strings like the plague.

 

In case of refretting a guitar or having her refretted, avoid stainless steel frets like the plague if you like doing string bendings.

 

Sad, but true.

 

Cap, why does this only affect frets that are worn. Why is the surface of the new untarnished fret free of residual austenitic content? I understand that the heat treatment quenching will affect the surface grain & the crystalline structure. Does this seal in some way?

[capmaster]

Cap, why does this only affect frets that are worn. Why is the surface of the new untarnished fret free of residual austenitic content? I understand that the heat treatment quenching will affect the surface grain & the crystalline structure. Does this seal in some way?

I'm not an expert on that subject but had to deal with it operating and maintaining pharmaceutical machines and devices, including developing specification sheets and contacting suppliers in these regards. It may appear strange, but we tried to avoid stainless steel use for highly stressed components whenever and wherever possible. For instance, next to all tabletting tools like punches and dies are still made of "plain" heavy-duty steels today.

 

Strain-hardening and cryogenic treatment can affect the workpiece close to entirely from the surface to a certain penetration depth, but it always creates a metastable structure of different, typically increased density. This will leave crystallographic defects and residual stress from the start and to my estimation hamper a tight seal.

 

Talking fret wire here, it will be further chipless formed when mounted to the fingerboard, adding more residual stress. Then there has to be a fret dressing removing some hardened material. So far, so good, the microscopic ruptures were not a basic problem even under stress, were there no chloride in our sweat. Unfortunately this is the missing link to causing damage. Avoiding stress crack corrosion means safely excluding at least one of the factors disturbed crystals, stress of any source, or chloride, and this isn't possible.

 

I also have a poor experience with stainless steel wound strings. One day in early 2013 I optimistically restrung three of my basses using one set each of short scale flatwounds, short scale roundwounds and long scale roundwounds made by the probably biggest string maker on Earth. All of my instruments have nickel silver frets, by the way. Some hours of playing later I regretted it badly. After feeling smooth for a short period on each bass, they began literally sanding down the skin from my picking fingers. I quickly changed to a flatpick. Anyway, they also affected my fretting fingers so badly that evening that I wasn't able to fret for several days after, neither guitar nor bass strings. I like having spare strings, and so unfortunately I had bought two of each set and still have one of each on the shelf. <_<

 

I'm sure these strings went abrasive to my skin due to stress crack corrosion, too. I never experienced anything like that with nickel wounds, nickel-plated steel wounds, or chrome wounds which I use on next to all other electric guitars and basses since many years.

[merciful-evans]

So the fret abrasion through dressing and string bends just makes an existing problem worse.

 

Thanks for that.

 

I also have a poor experience with stainless steel wound strings. One day in early 2013 I optimistically restrung three of my basses using one set each of short scale flatwounds, short scale roundwounds and long scale roundwounds made by the probably biggest string maker on Earth. All of my instruments have nickel silver frets, by the way. Some hours of playing later I regretted it badly. After feeling smooth for a short period on each bass, they began literally sanding down the skin from my picking fingers.

 

I imagine steel roundwounds could damage nickle frets too. Just as well you were using flatwounds.

[capmaster]

So the fret abrasion through dressing and string bends just makes an existing problem worse.

 

Thanks for that.

 

 

 

I imagine steel roundwounds could damage nickle frets too. Just as well you were using flatwounds.

Yes, definitely, and I also agree flat wire won't change that.

 

The chrome-plated strings I use since 1982 are basically very tough, too. However, I think the chrome(III) oxide present through passivation helps a lot, being both coherent and smooth. Moreover, as long as there is chrome present, if ever abrasion of the oxide occured, instant passivation of the metal below would restore the oxide layer.

[Roach]

wow, what an amazing technical rundown cap...just wow.... i am just really dumb. Maybe i should have paid attention when i was younger.i thought i was smart when i finally understood how an electronic signal is created by a copper wire wrapped around a magnet and placed near a string vibrating, sent through components, out the jack to the amp. but it seems i am not smarter then a 1st grader after all. I read your post cap, at first pretending to follow it, and i read it all...a couple times...still truth be told, i am just dumb. No need to explain it to me i am satisfied knowing ok my frets wont last long and this pretty guitar will need a re-fret job one day. maybe before i can move on to another maybe not. My plan was to get a custom LP when i felt i was a worthy enough player, and i suppose if i play till the frets are that bad, then i will have accomplished some skill advancement...i would hope...

 

So, bottom line, IF I understood anything, and maybe i did not, stainless steal frets are crap?

[capmaster]

I'm a simple man, often in my life asked simple questions, and I still do. In most cases the answers are not that simple. There's so much to know and so little I understand!

 

I don't know how to translate Hölderlin's (1770 - 1843) words into English in a poetic manner, so I just try it simple: "Knowing little, but plenty of joy is given to mortals."

[capmaster]

...

So, bottom line, IF I understood anything, and maybe i did not, stainless steel frets are crap?

They are at least not what I would choose.

[Roach]

I'm a simple man, often in my life asked simple questions, and I still do. In most cases the answers are not that simple. There's so much to know and so little I understand!

 

I don't know how to translate Hölderlin's (1770 - 1843) words into English in a poetic manner, so I just try it simple: "Knowing little, but plenty of joy is given to mortals."

 

I am more like larry the cable guy.

ill go with, "ignorance is bliss", i dont know who said it.

[capmaster]

...

 

And Cap, i am pretty sure from your response that i have stainless because the wear i see is exactly where i bend the most. like the g string 4th fret, the B bend up to ?, whatever sounds good, when playing an A chord with first finger. I dont think you can tell from this pic but you can look and see.

 

https://gyazo.com/48c1a0fe2f24574c737fb8624128dcb9

Sorry for my belated reply, but I couldn't see from the pic and guess it would be very hard even with a close-up photo.

 

i can promise all of you this:

My next guitar purchase will be made with a more educated, patient, selective, logical, choice than this one was. But i must be clear on this. Even with these issues, I am still extremely pleased with my new guitar, and even when i purchased it, I expected to get a higher end model later on, when i believe my skills justify spending that higher end amount of money.

I have learned so much about what my requirements will be next time... higher end wood to start, top quality frets, the neck shape, the nut, the pickups, and next time if i am couple hundred short of exactly what i want, ill wait. OH and a dam pickguard that mounts without the screws in the body of guitar cause i understand the only way to get that is to buy it on a guitar. Gibson refuses to sell me the p/u rings it requires,and pickgaurd

I can't tell for sure if stainless steel frets would have been a deal-breaker for me, even after having given them a second thought. I guess if I had liked her otherwise, I would have bought the guitar, too, and later have her refretted with nickel silver as soon as she call for it.

 

Guitar purchases are not logical to a pretty large extent... at least for me...

 

Do you like a pickguard for playability reasons? If not, I would just leave her without.

 

Most companies are reluctant to sell newly released components as spare parts. It was the same with Fender and their volume pots with built-in S-1 switch for several years. Now they are available. I'm thinking about buying some of them...

[Roach]

Do you like a pickguard for playability reasons? If not, I would just leave her without.

 

 

 

Yes and no, here we go with the complicated answers hahaha, i mean yes i like the pickguard because i suck, and i get carried away and do not want to scratch up the finish, but also its the first time i have seen a studio without one and it feels to me like it looks cheaper without it. so, both reasons looks and playability, for me. The mountless pickguard is super perfect because it doesn't require drilling into the guitar in two places, or at all. It would do its job and guard the finish without altering the guitar and by the looks of it you would hardly notice it being different than the regular pickguards, till you notice the bulky ugly bracket is not there

 

I made a pickguard for my 2000 LP special w/hums, out of the wierd composite material that has a reflective surface, like a mirror. IT looks great with all the chrome parts and pickup covers, (but now i need a 498t chrome pickup). But the studio has nickel colored parts so it wouldnt work on that and again with the hole drilling... have a look

 

https://gyazo.com/7ee52ddc5dc894a9392a31f291d25071

[pappy]

WHEW! I think I just learned a whole lot here, but then again I do not know anything. Using certain metals I do understand some of the principles, from the days when I used to make braces for patients. Then that was many moons ago and this entire discussion put a whole new spin on what I thought I knew. But thanks for the lessons,I pick up something new almost every week from these forums, the hard part at my age is trying retain it now.

I once had a professor in college that said you will never remember but a tiny fraction of what you will be taught in my class, BUT, I will impart to you the ability to know where to research the information should you need years form now. He was right, at least I have the ability to reach out and find the answers,and I thank each and every one of you. Has made a world of difference in my approach to my music and care of my instruments.

THANX ALL!!!

[capmaster]

Yes and no, here we go with the complicated answers hahaha, i mean yes i like the pickguard because i suck, and i get carried away and do not want to scratch up the finish, but also its the first time i have seen a studio without one and it feels to me like it looks cheaper without it. so, both reasons looks and playability, for me. The mountless pickguard is super perfect because it doesn't require drilling into the guitar in two places, or at all. It would do its job and guard the finish without altering the guitar and by the looks of it you would hardly notice it being different than the regular pickguards, till you notice the bulky ugly bracket is not there

When I started playing guitar in 1980, I went with the then common practice of supporting the picking hand with the pinky finger when soloing. I think it was mainly influenced by the late Chet Atkins whose proficiency I will always be far from. The Japan-made Suzuki Les Paul copy I still own had a pickguard, so I had the choice.

 

Anyway, within about a year or so I got accustomed to hold and move my picking hand freely and stayed with that ever since.

 

One of the "real" Les Paul guitars I meanwhile own came with a factory-mounted pickguard, the other ones either didn't or had it supplied. When I bought the one with the guard on as my latest Les Paul guitar, I realized to my surprise that I don't even realize it's there when playing. It just bothers me when I look at her! ;) I just prefer it over open holes...

[Roach]

! ;) I just prefer it over open holes...

 

i didnt understand what that meant?

 

Did you mean rather than having the drilled holes exposed, you prefer to have the guard on

 

I am assuming you know they now have a pickguard that mounts by snapping into the pickup rings instead of a bracket and 2 holes in the guitar, but im restating that in case other readers haven't seen that yet It requires pickup rings that have the snap in holes on them, that they wont sell.

And pappy you are welcome glad my question led to you finding something, but remember, not only will you only retain a small percent of information of that you do retain, how much is actually useful cause:

"Knowledge is useless without application"

AND

Luck is nothing more than perspective meeting opportunity.

i have no idea why i said this... there is no applicable meaning really

[capmaster]

Did you mean rather than having the drilled holes exposed, you prefer to have the guard on

Yes, just that.

[Roach]

Yes, just that.

 

yea they look more elegant with pickguards, when i decided to go with a studio model i really wanted the white one with black pickguard, but of course the only one like that in the store that day was an epiphone and so i took the only usa studio instead, and figured i would add one later. Then i found out about the ones that do not mount by drilling holes and got really disappointed i cannot get them parts from gibson, then the 2016 models all have them.

[merciful-evans]

one of the tangs on my removable (screwless) pickguard has bent out of shape. It hasnt broken yet, and if it did the remaining ones would still hold it in place. This doesnt really bother me too much. but there are players out there who obsess about these things.

 

So why not offer replacement pickguards? People want to buy 'em. vendor makes his profit. Everyone's happy.

[Roach]

one of the tangs on my removable (screwless) pickguard has bent out of shape. It hasnt broken yet, and if it did the remaining ones would still hold it in place. This doesnt really bother me too much. but there are players out there who obsess about these things.

 

So why not offer replacement pickguards? People want to buy 'em. vendor makes his profit. Everyone's happy.

 

I have a feeling if you need to replace an existing one, they would help you, but because i need the p/u rings too they wont sell the rings and guard to me. I think because it is a new thing. Not even through a retailer.