Roach Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I played drums for decades. Always had a little fantasy about guitar, got serious a few times then frustrated , stopped, started again a few times, but when i got my 2015 Les Paul Studio i got serious again. As a former drummer i could not understand why i was having an impossible time maintaining a steady 16th note pattern with up down picking over 80 bpm, even just on one string. OVER NIGHT i found the solution and (literally last night). I turn 48 next month this was an absolute life changer for me and i am just amazed that nobody ever told me this. i was using the end of my first finger and thumb to hold the pick. It was more than wrong, the tip of pick would end up facing backwards and id miss the string entirely. Yesterday i found this picture online: https://gyazo.com/67...ecb0687bd0cc452 SOLVED my problem immediately. Hope my post will help someone else who never had this shown to them and is having the same problem i had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Yep, that's the correct way to hold your pick. At your age, you likely haven't noticed, but as you age and get more arthritic, you may find that you start buying larger picks. Not really related to holding position, but just something I find amusing as I survey my stash of active/inactive picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 Yep, that's the correct way to hold your pick. At your age, you likely haven't noticed, but as you age and get more arthritic, you may find that you start buying larger picks. Not really related to holding position, but just something I find amusing as I survey my stash of active/inactive picks. i use a standard shap sized pick like in the photo, medium thin. i can see myself using thicker picks as i develop more finesse and ease off on beating on the strings like a drummer would. Fortunately arthritis has not affected me so far... although i do have some pain starting up in my pointer finger of the left hand, making standard C and Am chords more difficult. Im hoping like h it isnt that. ^. The point of my post really was to offer that bit of information that nobody ever told me and by doing it right, changed the world for alternate picking for me. first played at age 6 so 41 years i played wrong, that is why i would have never been able to do alternate picking above 80 bpm with any consistency. This was a profound miraculous discovery to me yet so so simple. I hoped to save the next player who didnt know this too. even if it doesnt help anyone at least i tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 i use a standard shap sized pick like in the photo, medium thin. i can see myself using thicker picks as i develop more finesse and ease off on beating on the strings like a drummer would. Fortunately arthritis has not affected me so far... although i do have some pain starting up in my pointer finger of the left hand, making standard C and Am chords more difficult. Im hoping like h it isnt that. ^. The point of my post really was to offer that bit of information that nobody ever told me and by doing it right, changed the world for alternate picking for me. first played at age 6 so 41 years i played wrong, that is why i would have never been able to do alternate picking above 80 bpm with any consistency. This was a profound miraculous discovery to me yet so so simple. I hoped to save the next player who didnt know this too. even if it doesnt help anyone at least i tried It's good information and I have no doubts that quite a few folks hold their flatpicks incorrectly, especially among those of us who figured out a lot of stuff for ourselves initially. Glad the arthritis problem hasn't afflicted you - the more you play, the less of a nuisance it's likely to become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 It's good information and I have no doubts that quite a few folks hold their flatpicks incorrectly, especially among those of us who figured out a lot of stuff for ourselves initially. Glad the arthritis problem hasn't afflicted you - the more you play, the less of a nuisance it's likely to become. The key to this grip is that it keeps the pick firmly in place so the it doesnt wander about and for me , ends up facing a different direction so that you start missing the string all together. This firm grip also keeps the pick from causing inconsistent timing by being too loose, and THAT was the very point of how it saved alternate picking. My timing has improved seemingly over night by a miraculous amount. I am still so excited about it because i am now 100 times faster. In fact I can pick too fast now and stay in time, the problem is the other hand now hahaha. I totally feel i graduated overnight to have the title, guitarist. Before that i was just a wanker. It is a simple thing but something nobody told me about, and it really changed my life as a guitar player. I cant wait to be able to fret all the scales while using a fast alternate picking. That will be the next step but im afraid that is not going to happen overnight like the picking did. Im putting in the time... it will be so worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Roach, your link isnt working for me. Glad you got your picking working ok anyway. Here's a pick article link that may be of some interest http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/42019-pick-article/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Roach, your link isnt working for me. Glad you got your picking working ok anyway. Here's a pick article link that may be of some interest http://forums.songst...9-pick-article/ My link https://gyazo.com/73...c35a71a5cd00146 see if this one works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASus-d Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I played drums for decades. Always had a little fantasy about guitar, got serious a few times then frustrated , stopped, started again a few times, but when i got my 2015 Les Paul Studio i got serious again. As a former drummer i could not understand why i was having an impossible time maintaining a steady 16th note pattern with up down picking over 80 bpm, even just on one string. OVER NIGHT i found the solution and (literally last night). I turn 48 next month this was an absolute life changer for me and i am just amazed that nobody ever told me this. i was using the end of my first finger and thumb to hold the pick. It was more than wrong, the tip of pick would end up facing backwards and id miss the string entirely. Yesterday i found this picture online: https://gyazo.com/67...ecb0687bd0cc452 SOLVED my problem immediately. Hope my post will help someone else who never had this shown to them and is having the same problem i had. Good deal, I was thinking the link was to some photobomb of kittens but... mentioning you were a drummer made me think down a whole different line, I have not actually thought about how I hold a pick in so long it never occurred to me. But yes, it is important. I like the dunlop Jazz III picks, nice grip, perfect size, pretty firm though, but perfect for electric work. On a 12 string (acoustic) I prefer a little bigger with some flex. Happy Jamming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Interesting post.... Yes IMO good alternate picking technique can improve rhythm in general Grip is a personal thing and often overlooked in lessons and tutor books I use large H grade triangular picks from Gibson and Stagg.... And use thumb and 1st and 2nd fingers to grip....works well for me.... Playing mandolin tremolo style is fun and relevant to this post.... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Good deal, I was thinking the link was to some photobomb of kittens but... mentioning you were a drummer made me think down a whole different line, I have not actually thought about how I hold a pick in so long it never occurred to me. But yes, it is important. I like the dunlop Jazz III picks, nice grip, perfect size, pretty firm though, but perfect for electric work. On a 12 string (acoustic) I prefer a little bigger with some flex. Happy Jamming Kind of the same thing between drummers and guitarists think of note rates. most guitarist do not think of triplets but yet they play them all the time. On guitar i feel somewhat relieved of having to think about the timing and note rates and just let em flow, because you can... as long as you always use a beat or a good drummer you are free to try anything, 5's? 7's? you always got that beat to get you back on track if you lose it. I use guitar tracks pro 3, put in the drum beats from samples one at a time till i have the beat i want then copy paste for 500 measures and use templates for various bpm usually play at 120bpm. It beats (PUNNY) using an annoying metronome, but that is an option. So, im always playing in time, very important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Interesting post.... Yes IMO good alternate picking technique can improve rhythm in general Grip is a personal thing and often overlooked in lessons and tutor books I use large H grade triangular picks from Gibson and Stagg.... And use thumb and 1st and 2nd fingers to grip....works well for me.... Playing mandolin tremolo style is fun and relevant to this post.... V i like to use it to fill up space but not just all 16ths, put a lil pause here and there to funk it up a bit but yeah it helps your timing too. Mastering this technique is not a simple task im still thrown off a bit when doing triplets this way with the up pick and down pick alternating on the beat. I wonder how many hours of doing that did it take you master players to master? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Yes Mr Roach..... Percussion, drumming etc are good disciplines for any musician with sufficient motivation The marking of time...certainly in 'western' music is fundamental What takes time is the repetition necessary to achieve 'automatic' rhythm skills As soon as the thinking is detached from the rhythm....the fun can begin : varying the phrasing, division of beats etc.... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Yes Mr Roach..... Percussion, drumming etc are good disciplines for any musician with sufficient motivation The marking of time...certainly in 'western' music is fundamental What takes time is the repetition necessary to achieve 'automatic' rhythm skills As soon as the thinking is detached from the rhythm....the fun can begin : varying the phrasing, division of beats etc.... V iIt is my belief that using a solid tempo in all your playing is where the automatic timing skills comes from, some players just seem to have outstanding meter, but most just "think" they do. One of the most notable differences between pro's and almost pro is that. When the guitar player from my last group started playing quarter note triplets in a 4/4 time signature, I asked him if he realized it and just did it automatically. I admit i get excited about note rates but that is my background I guess and I studied with Troy Lucketta of Tesla, note rates was the first thing and we were playing 5's and 7's and now im struggling to do triplets and 16ths on a simple up down picking, but i know for a fact it will be a huge payoff when this skill is mastered. Song comes to mind, Nazereth, Beggars Day, love this solo and song https://www.youtube....h?v=m6zRq2ny5YQ edit: I do need to master the picking as much as the actual notes on the fretboard and then ill look at more voicings for chords its important to master the right hand as much as the left and now i understand how guitar players sweat as much as drummers. Enjoy that song.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 Yes Mr Roach..... Percussion, drumming etc are good disciplines for any musician with sufficient motivation The marking of time...certainly in 'western' music is fundamental What takes time is the repetition necessary to achieve 'automatic' rhythm skills As soon as the thinking is detached from the rhythm....the fun can begin : varying the phrasing, division of beats etc.... V the repetition is crazy, and i cannot agree more with your words holy crap they are so profound to me right now. sufficient motivation + repetition necessary = 'automatic' rhythm skills The FUN BEGINS Its been fun so far which is where my motivation comes from. What else makes it fun and motivational is the incredible tone my les paul and marshall are putting out. sometimes i just hold a high bend an extra couple measures just to hear it ring....so sweet... gotta go play now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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