Macmutt Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Before anyone jumps all over me about the title and opinion of this post, just think about it for a minute. The infamous guitar that put Gibson on the map for decades, was NOT weight relieved, and therefore that sound and that craftsmanship and playability of that sought after instrument was a SOLID mahogany back with a solid maple top and those beautiful Gibson pickups, whether 59's P.A.F.'s or even Burstbuckers is the sound we all know and love, from early Allman Brothers, Frampton, Skynyrd, Aerosmith, even some early Clapton. All those artists had the Les Pauls with SOLID bodies, not chambered, not with 9 holes drilled out or any modern weight relief, and the sad part is that kids learning guitar today will never know or care that their not playing a TRUE Les Paul, their playing three quarters of one. Now to make matters worse in the 2016 line up they have shaved off the heel of the Les Paul for easier access to the higher notes......oh great just what the Les Paul needed even more wood taken out of it. If you want easier access than buy an SG, the chopping and mutilating of this gorgeous mahogany from this once legendary instrument is, in my opinion a disgrace, and although Gibson now offers choices of a shaven heel standard and a traditional heel standard in 2016, that is no great deal because both are still weight relieved bodies, and the one with the shaven heel is hailed as the superior, more advanced model, so thats going to be shown at every forefront of every website, magazine, catalog and trade show ad that Gibson is advertising in for the year. Am i the only one who thinks that this is an atrocity and butchering of a once phenomenal and quite possibly thee most legendary guitar on the planet ? I say make all Gibson guitars with NO weight relief and if they want to make a model with the shaven heel then go ahead. Then if some players are being cry babies and start whining about the weight or the access, then they should look at SG's. and leave the Les Pauls and their original spec of having a SOLID body alone. Now a days when i see all these so called innovations or improvements i shake my head in disgust, and then thank my lucky stars i was smart enough to buy and hold on to a SOLID body Les Paul with NO weight relief and that classic sound. Thank god i don't have the time or resources right now to go to the Gibson factory, because i would get any and all responsible for this weight relief crap in one room and scream at the top of my lungs at them to let them know to STOP, your screwing up one of the best guitars on the planet, and i guarantee you those business men in charge of these decisions who are cutting corners with these so called weight relief innovations are NOT players, just business men watching there bottom line and counting the dollars and cutting costs wherever they can, just to save a buck. I know young minds bring new ideas, ok hence the Geforce tuning, the zero fret nut, and removable pick guard, those are all good OPTIONS to have, none should be mandatory but all good innovations, just leave the original Les Paul construction alone....PLEASE !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Your reasoning makes no sense... All of those guitarists would have sounded good no matter what guitar they used, weight relieved or not.... What about all the other factors involved.. Amps, mics, mixing desk, analogue tape recorders... Surely that would have more of an effect on the sound than if it were weight relieved...? And again, its mostly down to the players style and technique.... NOT how solid their guitars were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Also just to add to that.. You do realise that LPs have been weight relieved since about 1983 when Henry took over... So you are talking about like 90% odd of all Les Pauls ever made (cos some have been non weight relieved over the years) since 1983 are all rubbish cos they have weight relief... Sorry, that's just nonsense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 ... You do realise that LPs have been weight relieved since about 1983 when Henry took over... ... They secretly started Swiss Cheese weight relief in 1983, and Henry took over in 1986. He obviously didn't abolish this debatable feature introduced by Norlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 They secretly started Swiss Cheese weight relief in 1983, and Henry took over in 1986. He obviously didn't abolish this debatable feature introduced by Norlin. Ahh ok... I always thought for some reason the two things happened at the same time :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 All those artists had the Les Pauls with SOLID bodies... Hang on a minute... Do you really meant to say that not all Les Pauls made these days are 100% solid-bodied? Surely you are mistaken? Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I have always found this to be one of the most arrogant debates one could choose to have. If Gibson said it's a Les Paul then it's a Les Paul. No one else's opinion matters. If I make a pickup and call it a CheezeBall no one else has any right to tell me how I have to make it or what I can't change about the CheezeBall from one production year to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 If I make a pickup and call it a CheezeBall no one else has any right to tell me how I have to make it or what I can't change about the CheezeBall from one production year to the next. But the Original Vintage CheezeBall p'ups will be the only TRUE CheezeBalls. All the CheezeBalls which followed weren't TRUE CheezeBalls and, by definition, sounded completely crap in comparison. Surely you understand that, Searcy? Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 My LP is not weight relived but I sure wish it was it'd be a lot easier on my back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 But the Original Vintage CheezeBall p'ups will be the only TRUE CheezeBalls. All the CheezeBalls which followed weren't TRUE CheezeBalls and, by definition, sounded completely crap in comparison. Surely you understand that, Searcy? Pip. And THAT is how perfect marketing is born. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graphic Autist Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 How does Gibson "save money" by drilling holes out of the guitars they are using? That makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 rct You mean there are others??!!??!!??!!??!! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 And THAT is how perfect marketing is born. :) Can I buy the original CheezeBall bobbin-winding machines from you? BTW; They are 'scatter-wind', aren't they??? But yes; how silly of me to even doubt such a thing! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 How does Gibson "save money" by drilling holes out of the guitars they are using? That makes no sense. They save money on timbers this way. Furthermore they produce more chips to burn for heating their dry kilns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Can I buy the original CheezeBall bobbin-winding machines from you? BTW; They are 'scatter-wind', aren't they??? But yes; how silly of me to even doubt such a thing! Pip. Do you want to predate the competition in recreating vintage CheezeBall pickups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 They save money on timbers this way. Furthermore they produce more chips useful for heating their dry kilns. That's odd. I heard that they were tapping-in to the lucrative market for 'Genuine & COA'd' relics of the Vera Crux............ Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 None of it matters without period correct plastics though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Do you want to predate the competition in recreating vintage CheezeBall pickups? "Always be Ahead of the Game", Cap! Hmmm.............. I wonder if Tom Murphy might be up for something a bit different???... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 How does Gibson "save money" by drilling holes out of the guitars they are using? That makes no sense. Lower shipping costs !! \:D/ \:D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Do you want to predate the competition in recreating vintage CheezeBall pickups? "The new CheezeBall vintage vintage reissue master historic heritage classic is the closest thing we have ever marketed to the original, never produced CheezeBall pickups which we never made. For that authentic vintage tooooone." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 "The new CheezeBall vintage vintage reissue master historic heritage classic is the closest thing we have ever marketed to the original, never produced CheezeBall pickups which we never made. For that authentic vintage tooooone." I'm waiting for next-year's CheezeBall Vintage Vintage Master Historic Heritage Classic Custom Authentic 'Collector's Choice' with the molecular-ly accurate enamel wire sheathing... Ah, well. Time for bed. I thank the OP for offering up the premise for what turned out to be a very amusing and diverting hour of my evening. Nighty-night, all! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 None of it matters without period correct plastics though So do you think Pippy would need vintage-spec CheezeBall bobbin material first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 So do you think Pippy would need vintage-spec CheezeBall bobbin material first? Exactly.. :) Plus we are also missing out another very important factor of tone.. Were their guitars leads straight or curly?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Exactly.. :) Plus we are also missing out another very important factor of tone.. Were their guitars leads straight or curly?? I fear they used cheap PVC insulations for either makes then, and the resulting greenish copper(II) chloride affected tone as well as lots of oxygen within the inferior copper. Lots of work to recreate all of it. Otherwise the valued customer may still complain about the clean, modern tone, regardless if wired straight or curly... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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