Victory Pete Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Yes its me again. I hope this is the one that will end this search, I have to get back to my normal routine. It should be on a plane tonight and tomorrow in my lap. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-limited-edition-western-classic-mystic-acoustic-guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Stunning guitar those Western Classics. Looking forward to your thought ands a pic or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Yes its me again. I hope this is the one that will end this search, I have to get back to my normal routine. It should be on a plane tonight and tomorrow in my lap. Yes, the search does take one away from the real world for a while, doesn't it? That's a whole lotta guitar. So it sounds like you sent the Standard back, and decided between the Walnut and the rosewood over the course of five hours? Decisions, decisions. Well, it's sugar plum dreams for you, tonight. . . Congrats and make sure to embed (using Photobucket "direct" tab on their sidebar, or some such) a photo or two when it gets home; especially of that back & sides. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yes, the search does take one away from the real world for a while, doesn't it? That's a whole lotta guitar. So it sounds like you sent the Standard back, and decided between the Walnut and the rosewood over the course of five hours? Decisions, decisions. Well, it's sugar plum dreams for you, tonight. . . Congrats and make sure to embed (using Photobucket "direct" tab on their sidebar, or some such) a photo or two when it gets home; especially of that back & sides. Congrats. Yes the standard is on its way back, if it wasn't for the finish flaws I suppose I wouldn't have been researching all day. Also my e-mails to Gibson Acoustic have been unanswered, I feel very insulted, they take my money and then disregard me when I have issues. The same cannot be said for Derek White at Musician's Friend Private Reserve department, absolutely fantastic customer service. I had always been obsessed with rosewood, why they used rosewood for the first 10 years intrigued me. I never found this guitar on their site because I was using J-200 or SJ-200 as a search. So now Western Classic takes on a whole new meaning. All my acoustics are rosewood and I guess it is my sound. I just hope there are no issues, please, no issues! Yes I will have to post pictures via the photo bucket thing. It amazes me how Gibson cannot upgrade this site to accept modern pictures. Every forum I go to does not have this limitation. Especially considering guitars have a very high aesthetic appeal, it would be good for business. It seems Gibson is very selfishly stubborn. I will give them one last chance with this baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 New Western Classic arrived on time. I opened the case quickly to take its temperature (85 degrees) and was stunned by what I saw, a really unique and beautifully simple incarnation of a guitar. It was completely new and foreign to me. Wow, what a cool looking guitar. It isn't very flashy and there are a lot of lines and borders to catch your eye. I had to close the case as my house was 69 degrees, usually I turn off the AC when a new guitar arrives in the summer. For an hour I played peek-a-boo with my new child. Once I got it out I looked it over and again got chills, the back is a very messy grain pattern, a little too liberal for me but what the heck, the Mystic Rosewood is pure chaos. The only flaw I could find was a strip of orange peel on the top, Gibson must still be asleep at the wheel. When I feel brave I can do some buffing. I played it and immediately recognized the sound of rosewood, pure bliss. The maple was louder when strumming open chords but the rosewood was more even all over the neck and with bar chords where the maple seemed dead. I have the 4 ribbon bridge, so maybe I am losing some volume, oh well, I may never know. I am not impressed with the tiny Waverly tuners, I don't get what the appeal is. I would like the great big ivory (okay green) Grover Deluxes like on all my electrics. The guitar just has a really classy restrained elegance to it (I am really throwing some BS now). I think it is a keeper. I am going to set up a photo shoot soon and do the bucket thing so I can show off this sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 I put Martin Phosphor Bronze SP Mediums 13-56 on the Western Classic and my 1998 HD-28. What a difference between these 2 tone monsters. The Western is louder and "lazier", The HD has more midrange punch and apparent sustain high up the board. I measured the scale length because I thought for sure the Western was shorter hence the "laziness", nope, they are both exactly the same 25.5". The neck of the Western is very slightly fatter than the HD, unlike the initial SJ-200 that was exactly the same. The difference is under a 1/16th". I am going to leave the action right where it is, .100 at 12th for the Western, the HD is .090. the Western being the Super Strummer needs some extra clearance. Also I don't want to lose any break over angle. I am gong to enjoy how these 2 new teammates are going to help me win some musical battles. I also have a 2007 D12-28 that can do some tag teaming in the studio. I am not concerned about the relative "boominess" of these Rosewood Cannons when recording, it seemed to have worked well for Neil Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 More comparisons. This "laziness" of the Western I described I believe is due to the shallow break over angle of the 4 ribbon bridge, I don't think the SJ-200 I returned had this same trait, it had a 2 ribbon bridge with a steeper angle. The strings do not "thump" with the pick like they do with the HD-28. I wonder how much of this difference is the fact the HD-28 has ebony board and bridge and is 18 years old and has broken in over time. Nonetheless I am completely convinced a shallow break over angle is a tone killer. Also the pick guard is lifting in spots. It really never ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Are you sure you're not just comparing a Gibson to a Martin? They are going to be extremely different guitars, as is a dreadnought vs a super-jumbo, especially when it's a Martin dreadnought vs. a Gibson super-jumbo. SJs were made for years and years with the four bands and that particular break angle. I can't imagine it makes a tremendous amount of difference. An ebony fingerboard and bridge will make more difference but still not a ton. To be fair, the bridge material makes a fair amount of difference, but in the grand system of a guitar, I think if you want your Gibson to sound like a Martin, you had better get a Martin... On the other hand, variety is the spice of life. If you really like your HD-28 that much, maybe you will only be satisfied with another HD-28... or maybe only with your particular HD-28! :) I do not think of my SJ-200 as being even necessarily a loud guitar. I think "lazy," in a good way, is a pretty good descriptor. It's got a great big swelling thumpy dry Gibson sound. The Martin tone is so very different. And even the vast difference of makers aside, just comparing body shapes changes so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 It does take a little more to get across those ribbons. This J200 is setup with fairly low action and still has a decent saddle height. Slotting the pin holes will help some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I have had 2 WC and they were both amazing guitars. I sold them both due to gassing for other things ( I have a J200 TV to ease the pain) but OMG, those guitars were just phenomenal. I would likely buy another If I weren't gravitating to smaller bodied instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Thanks for all the replies, many valid points have been made. I just cant help but wonder what this guitar would sound like with the 2 ribbon bridge. I have searched and it seems every rosewood model I find will have this bridge, apparently it is used on all high end guitars, there may be some irony there. I have considered adding string ramps. Also I wonder how it will improve with use and age. I first became aware of the importance of break over angle years ago as I was lowering my saddle on the HD-28 to make it more playable, at one point the strings started to buzz so I shimmed it temporarily with a piece of a popsicle stick, wow I was blown away at the volume, that is when it hit me. Ever since I have been obsessed with keeping a high saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 And I'm not surprised. All four ribbon 200s warrant close inspection before purchase.......they can be good but they can be pretty bad as well.......not to say yours is one or the other, not having seen it personally. Any acoustic guitar needs to have a good neck set but this particular bridge requires an exceptional neck set to be right. What's tolerable in this regard is up to the player........ If the guitar sounds right to your liking, however different it may be from the 28, then the shallow angle is acceptable. It'd good if that's the case......search over! I understand the neck set angle is important. If I look down the neck the neck is straight until it hits the body, then the fretboard goes down very slightly to meet the body. That I assume is a good neck set angle. If I look at the previous SJ-200 and my Martin it does slightly the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 I just played them both with fresh ears. The HD-28 is brighter and punchier with less volume. The Western Classic is louder, warmer and smooth sounding. I understand they are very different guitars. I look forward to see how the Western will open up in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Are you sure you're not just comparing a Gibson to a Martin? They are going to be extremely different guitars, as is a dreadnought vs a super-jumbo, especially when it's a Martin dreadnought vs. a Gibson super-jumbo. SJs were made for years and years with the four bands and that particular break angle. I can't imagine it makes a tremendous amount of difference. An ebony fingerboard and bridge will make more difference but still not a ton. To be fair, the bridge material makes a fair amount of difference, but in the grand system of a guitar, I think if you want your Gibson to sound like a Martin, you had better get a Martin... On the other hand, variety is the spice of life. If you really like your HD-28 that much, maybe you will only be satisfied with another HD-28... or maybe only with your particular HD-28! :) I do not think of my SJ-200 as being even necessarily a loud guitar. I think "lazy," in a good way, is a pretty good descriptor. It's got a great big swelling thumpy dry Gibson sound. The Martin tone is so very different. And even the vast difference of makers aside, just comparing body shapes changes so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Ramping the pin holes will certainly help. On a four ribbon bridge this will mean ramping into the inlay..........a travesty to some.......the WC I used to have required this. Sighting the edge of the fretboard can be tricky, but that line should continue to the top of the bridge or higher on any guitar. With a four ribbon bridge this line should fall well above the top of the bridge to keep a tall saddle.......an overset neck. The old straight edge on the frets is a good indicator. You say your WC "required this". What where the symptoms and the outcome after you ramped the strings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Drop-dead gorgeous guitar. Looking forward to hearing it on here too. Sometimes what you find at the "end of the rainbow" is better than that proverbial pot of gold. Congrats!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 Drop-dead gorgeous guitar. Looking forward to hearing it on here too. Sometimes what you find at the "end of the rainbow" is better than that proverbial pot of gold. Congrats!!! This is the actual guitar I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 I noticed there is a little "peak" brace between the X braces right at the sound hole. I don't remember this on the SJ-200 I returned. Doe anyone have this little brace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I noticed there is a little "peak" brace between the X braces right at the sound hole. I don't remember this on the SJ-200 I returned. Doe anyone have this little brace? I recall that little peak on the J-200 I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 All the J200s I own have the peak in front of the X.. as for the Classic.. I prefer to have one with the ebony board and bridge.. Just my taste on those.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted September 2, 2016 Author Share Posted September 2, 2016 All the J200s I own have the peak in front of the X.. as for the Classic.. I prefer to have one with the ebony board and bridge.. Just my taste on those.. How often are those made? Can you describe its sound? The problem with Gibson is all these "Limited Runs" that come and go. You cant seem to ever catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I noticed there is a little "peak" brace between the X braces right at the sound hole. I don't remember this on the SJ-200 I returned. Doe anyone have this little brace? I have it on my SJ200, which is 12 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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