Steve Harp Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Hi Guys, I have a 2006 Epiphone SG that I haven't touched in years. I've recently restrung with 10s and am trying to set intonation. The neck relief appears to be OK (very slight bow) with a business card passing snugly at the 12th fret when the first and last fret are depressed. I can set intonation fine on the 1st 3 strings but strings 4 - 6 are a full note off regardless of the saddle position. For instance, on the low E, I'm getting a D on the twelfth fret with the bridge saddle fully maxed out in either direction. I'm getting similar results on strings 4 & 5. Ideas? Thanks for any suggestions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 The 12th fret is an octave up from the open string. If you are getting a D at the 12th, the open is D. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Jerry Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 All things being equal, it doesn't seem right that changing strings or changing the gauge of the strings would result in the intonation being off by a full note on a given string, which I guess is why you are asking. I'd start by checking the action. I know for myself, I have a tendency to mess-up the action when changing strings by inadvertently moving the pins on the bridge. If you are satisfied that the action and neck relief are set within reason, then if it were me, I'd take the guitar to a professional luthier. I've been adjusting the intonation on my guitars for a few years now and can't recall the intonation on the 12th fret ever being off by as much as a complete 1/2 note, much less a full note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Do some strings perhaps touch a pickup? This would be the only reasonable explanation to me. All the strings must clear the pickups when fretted at 22nd position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Hi Guys, I have a 2006 Epiphone SG that I haven't touched in years. I've recently restrung with 10s and am trying to set intonation. The neck relief appears to be OK (very slight bow) with a business card passing snugly at the 12th fret when the first and last fret are depressed. I can set intonation fine on the 1st 3 strings but strings 4 - 6 are a full note off regardless of the saddle position. For instance, on the low E, I'm getting a D on the twelfth fret with the bridge saddle fully maxed out in either direction. I'm getting similar results on strings 4 & 5. Ideas? Thanks for any suggestions... Get rid of this bridge... and install one like this..... Should eliminate the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Is the neck warped? That could be a possibility. Perhaps some more relief may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Harp Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 All things being equal, it doesn't seem right that changing strings or changing the gauge of the strings would result in the intonation being off by a full note on a given string, which I guess is why you are asking. I'd start by checking the action. I know for myself, I have a tendency to mess-up the action when changing strings by inadvertently moving the pins on the bridge. If you are satisfied that the action and neck relief are set within reason, then if it were me, I'd take the guitar to a professional luthier. I've been adjusting the intonation on my guitars for a few years now and can't recall the intonation on the 12th fret ever being off by as much as a complete 1/2 note, much less a full note. I haven't changed strings in a few years but I think the old strings were probably 9s. I just put on 10s and now I have the intonation problems. It seems like the bridge may be installed incorrectly. I adjusted the truss rod after putting on the new strings and the action seems right. I was hoping I could avoid spending the money for a professional luthier and do this myself. This is the cheapest guitar I own and I don't pick it up very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Harp Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Is the neck warped? That could be a possibility. Perhaps some more relief may help. I don't see any warpage in the neck. The relief was greater (more bow) and I reduced it thinking that may help with the intonation. No dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Harp Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 The 12th fret is an octave up from the open string. If you are getting a D at the 12th, the open is D. rct No. I know the 12th fret is an octave. It should be E open and E on the 12th fret. I'm getting E open and D on the 12th fret. Not right. Hence the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Could you post some pictures of your guitar showing the critical areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorboy Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Is the string action height at the 12th fret set correctly? Should be measured according to the chart on here Epiphone setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Jerry Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Other than mentioning the nut, it seems like you’ve checked off the usual suspects that cause intonation problems. Perhaps try going back to a set of 9’s to see if the problem is in fact due to the change in string gauge. If the intonation is still off, then you know something other than the change in strings is causing the problem. If the intonation works, then you can decide if using the 10’s are worth the effort to figure out what’s causing the intonation problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve112 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 No. I know the 12th fret is an octave. It should be E open and E on the 12th fret. I'm getting E open and D on the 12th fret. Not right. Hence the problem. You have described a problem that unless something MAJOR has happened to your guitar and it is seriously screwed, is otherwise physically impossible. Never in over fifty years of playing with a guitar where all the bits are in the right location, have I ever encountered a WHOLE STEP intonation inaccuracy. 'D' instead of 'E' at the 12th fret is so far from proper, or even achievable pitch that a routine change of strings or other basic standard adjustments simply couldn't produce this result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Unless there is something amiss with how the tuner is reading the note, I agree with Steve above.. Very unusual... unless the strings were as old as dirt, and even then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 What's the 12th fret harmonic like on your tuner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I'd hate to say anything's impossible... but short of the bass side of the bridge being so low as to snag strings on the end of the neck or a pickup (or a nut slot/angle that's totally grabbing the string) I'm at a loss as to how it could be the guitar that's at fault to be a whole step out even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Harp Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 You have described a problem that unless something MAJOR has happened to your guitar and it is seriously screwed, is otherwise physically impossible. Never in over fifty years of playing with a guitar where all the bits are in the right location, have I ever encountered a WHOLE STEP intonation inaccuracy. 'D' instead of 'E' at the 12th fret is so far from proper, or even achievable pitch that a routine change of strings or other basic standard adjustments simply couldn't produce this result. I'm away from home for a few more days. When I get back, I'll try different digital tuners and see if I get different results. I was using Guitar Toolkit on an iPad. I have a stomp tuner I can try as well as other options. Thanks for the reply. I would greatly prefer NOT to have a serious fault with the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I would greatly prefer NOT to have a serious fault with the guitar. yea, we hear that!! let us know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve112 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I'm away from home for a few more days. When I get back, I'll try different digital tuners and see if I get different results. I was using Guitar Toolkit on an iPad. I have a stomp tuner I can try as well as other options. Thanks for the reply. I would greatly prefer NOT to have a serious fault with the guitar. Yes, no one wants your guitar to be toast. I'm thinking and hoping it's a tuner error, Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Jerry Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I was using Guitar Toolkit on an iPad. That's probably the culprit. I've used the tuner on the Guitar Toolkit app myself. They are not precise at their best and the app software or the mic on the device can get corrupted leading to disastrous results. I think you'll likely get much different readings if you use the stomp tuner or even something like a Snark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Harp Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 Thanks to everyone for your input! I finally got back home and tried using my stomp tuner instead of the iPad app and the intonation is much closer using that tuner. I think it's within an adjustable range now so I'll try it again tomorrow. I had no idea that one tuner could be so inaccurate when compared to another. I just assumed they could be trusted. Silly me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve112 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Thanks to everyone for your input! I finally got back home and tried using my stomp tuner instead of the iPad app and the intonation is much closer using that tuner. I think it's within an adjustable range now so I'll try it again tomorrow. I had no idea that one tuner could be so inaccurate when compared to another. I just assumed they could be trusted. Silly me. Good news , let us know how your intonation goes. There can be quite a divergence in accuracy and consistency between the many tuners, some having dubious quality control and/or poorly executed software. Edit, 10 gauge strings should be about perfect for an SG and will assist in good intonation, you may not have to do a thing to it and if you do, it'll be very minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old lefty Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 i notice that when the batteries get low on any of several clip on tuners i have that my sg is almost impossible to get that spot on tuning 10 hrs is usually all those clip on tuners will rok properly do you know anyone that has a tuned piano? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjudas Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'll bet that it's your tuner. Try a couple of different tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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