please help about stop bar height setup

[Kul2enai]

Hi all,

 

I've seen that my les paul's stop bar height is set low, so the 6th and 1st string touch the bridge.

Is it a general setup or should I set it higher?

 

Thanks.

 

 

ps.

image credit by http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Piezo.aspx

[btoth76]

Hello and welcome to the Forums.

 

You will get many different opinions on Your question. Some will say: never mind the strings touching the edge of the bridge, just crank it all the way down for sustain.

 

My subjective opinion on this is to maintain the 17 degree break angle from bridge to tailpiece. That is the same angle from the nut towards the headstock.

 

Bence.

[Kul2enai]

Hello and welcome to the Forums.

 

You will get many different opinions on Your question. Some will say: never mind the strings touching the edge of the bridge, just crank it all the way down for sustain.

 

My subjective opinion on this is to maintain the 17 degree break angle from bridge to tailpiece. That is the same angle from the nut towards the headstock.

 

Bence.

 

Thanks btoth76,

I wonder will the 1st and 6th string tear easily in case of it touch the bridge?

[capmaster]

The stop tailpiece heights on my hardtail Gibsons are adjusted that all of the strings clear the rear edge of the bridge.

[capmaster]

Hello and welcome to the Forums.

 

You will get many different opinions on Your question. Some will say: never mind the strings touching the edge of the bridge, just crank it all the way down for sustain.

 

My subjective opinion on this is to maintain the 17 degree break angle from bridge to tailpiece. That is the same angle from the nut towards the headstock.

 

Bence.

The sustain and 17° points are debatable. There are 14° on some Gibsons and Epiphones as well, and they work fine. Then there are Gibson designs requiring shallower breaking angles since they don't allow for 17°. Maestro vibratos or long distances between bridge and tailpiece are examples. I have guitars of all of these groups, and there's no problem with sustain. Same applies to increased tailpiece height - no loss of sustain whatsoever.

 

 

Thanks btoth76,

I wonder will the 1st and 6th string tear easily in case of it touch the bridge?

The E1st may suffer from it, but I don't think there's a serious risk of breaking an E6th with that. It will mainly mar the chrome, nickel or gold plating of the bridge and later the ZAMAK die cast metal, too.

[btoth76]

Thanks btoth76,

I wonder will the 1st and 6th string tear easily in case of it touch the bridge?

 

No, that won't be an issue.

 

It might affect the string vibration - Your tone. But that's - again - disputed by many.

 

I like them raised because of the lighter string tension.

 

Bence.

[capmaster]

...

 

I like them raised because of the lighter string tension.

 

Bence.

There will be no difference in tension. This is defined by scale length, gauge, and tuning pitch.

[btoth76]

See? That's what I meant by different opinions. :D

 

Bence.

[capmaster]

See? That's what I meant by different opinions. :D

 

Bence.

This has nothing to do with opinions. It's about reproduceable facts. B)

[Zentar]

You can top wrap your tail piece. OR, you can top wrap just the 1st and 6th string. OR, you can simply raise the tail piece a tad.

 

I don't like to introduce extra contact points on the string because these points are where a string tends to break.

 

There are many different theories on the correct operation of the TOM bridge and tail piece that argue with each other. These conflicting opinions are logical inconsistencies. Here is another logical inconsistency: if god is all powerful then can he make a rock so big that he can't lift it?

 

With a tuneomatic bridge and tail piece you can't be wrong nor right because the device doesn't care how you adjust it. It will always work..

[rct]

It doesn't matter if it touches the bridge any more than it matters it it touches a string tree up at the other end. So not at all, that's how much it matters.

 

rct

[BigKahune]

.

Lots of opinions.

 

There are differing opinions on why it's a good idea to avoid having the strings contact the bridge. I find the most compelling is - if the string/s contact the bridge there could be additional force that could bend the bridge posts. This could be made worse with the stop cranked down possibly creating more even force on the bridge.

 

Bent toward the bridge pup -

 

Bent toward the stop -

 

.

[Kul2enai]

Thanks very much everyone.

Now i try to set the stop bar higher until the 1st and 6th string don't touch the bridge (gap between under string and top of the bridge around 0.2 mm).

And i can feel that my les paul easier to play more than before and no worry about the string tearing.

[btoth76]

...

And i can feel that my les paul easier to play more than before...

 

Isn't it?

 

Bence

[capmaster]

...

With a tuneomatic bridge and tail piece you can't be wrong nor right because the device doesn't care how you adjust it. It will always work..

It will always work, either as desired or not. I think the sense of setup is matching the player's desire.

 

 

...

And i can feel that my les paul easier to play more than before...

Isn't it?

 

Bence

It's not, but that doesn't even matter. He feels good about it, and this is what counts here.

[btoth76]

Hello Capmaster.

 

When I got my 2011 L6S, I was surprised why did it came with .009 strings. When I checked, it turned out to be it has a .010 set on it. It has a much softer feel than my Les Pauls with 10s on them. The only difference between the string suspension of L6S and Les Paul guitars is the placement of the stopbar.

 

Bence.

[capmaster]

Hello Capmaster.

 

When I got my 2011 L6S, I was surprised why did it came with .009 strings. When I checked, it turned out to be it has a .010 set on it. It has a much softer feel than my Les Pauls with 10s on them. The only difference between the string suspension of L6S and Les Paul guitars is the placement of the stopbar.

 

Bence.

Hello Bence,

 

there might be other factors. Playing feel largely depends on subtle differences in neck relief and action, too. Few hundredth of a millimeter can make significant differences. These adjustments are so important that they may even overcome scale lengths, fretboard radiuses, fret wire widths and heights. I'm not kidding when I say the most important differences in playability between all of my guitars are string spacings. They take me more adaption and mindset than even string gauges.

 

Be assured that all of my 24.75" guitars with .011"-.050" strings feel quite the same to the fretting fingers. I adjusted them for that, resulting in same action without trying to achieve that as a primary goal. It turned out that way. On the other hand, the neck back's feel to my thumb depends more on neck material than on profile and finish, I'm not kidding. Mahogany feels some kind of springy to me while maple rather feels rigid.

 

Back to the front now. I like finished maple boards as well as untreated heartwoods and, in one case, Richlite. I also deal with two baked maple boards, on my Silverburst 2011 L6S and my 2012 SG Standard Bass. Anyway, I do prefer the finished maple boards of my 1973 and 2011 L6Ses and the rosewood board of my 2011 SG Standard Bass over them.

 

Finally I have to say that many guitar shootouts at a dealer are invalid in my opinion. My experiences say that the differences in playing feel between lots of guitars of same build with similar strings depend more on setup than on anything else.

 

All in all, setup is really crucial. A player not doing it oneself properly will need a luthier who is quite skilled in conversation and craft as well.

 

Sincerely,

 

capmaster

[rickc]

Lots of very good information and pointers here. One day, someone with a physics degree will actually connect a guitar to an array of electronic devices and prove/disprove with real science a bunch of the common beliefs that bounce around the guitar forums. For what it's worth, answering the original question, I set up my guitars with tailpieces so that the tailpiece height is just high enough for the strings to clear the rear edge of the tunomatic bridge. I only do this because I don't like the strings rubbing on the bridge; i have never noticed any other impact on playability or sound.

 

I've played guitar for 45 years and always set-up my own guitars; so many people seem to regard this as an art-form; it's not. With the exception of twisted necks and bad frets that may require a luthier's touch, just be careful with truss rod adjustments and everything else is simple. There are so many very unscientific ideas about sustain and other sound attributes that go into ridiculous details when at the end of the day the guitar player's skills, the guitar's electric set-up and the sound reinforcement system used override almost everything else. I'm not saying that a great instrument doesn't count; of course it does but there's too much pseudo-science about guitar set-up that is repeated again and again in all the guitar forums I participate in.

[jdgm]

I've played guitar for 45 years and always set-up my own guitars; so many people seem to regard this as an art-form; it's not. With the exception of twisted necks and bad frets that may require a luthier's touch, just be careful with truss rod adjustments and everything else is simple.

 

Agree with this one hundred per cent.

[capmaster]

Lots of very good information and pointers here. One day, someone with a physics degree will actually connect a guitar to an array of electronic devices and prove/disprove with real science a bunch of the common beliefs that bounce around the guitar forums. For what it's worth, answering the original question, I set up my guitars with tailpieces so that the tailpiece height is just high enough for the strings to clear the rear edge of the tunomatic bridge. I only do this because I don't like the strings rubbing on the bridge; i have never noticed any other impact on playability or sound.

 

I've played guitar for 45 years and always set-up my own guitars; so many people seem to regard this as an art-form; it's not. With the exception of twisted necks and bad frets that may require a luthier's touch, just be careful with truss rod adjustments and everything else is simple. There are so many very unscientific ideas about sustain and other sound attributes that go into ridiculous details when at the end of the day the guitar player's skills, the guitar's electric set-up and the sound reinforcement system used override almost everything else. I'm not saying that a great instrument doesn't count; of course it does but there's too much pseudo-science about guitar set-up that is repeated again and again in all the guitar forums I participate in.

=D> Very great post, Rick!

[Thrill74]

I just started top wrapping the stop bar. I'd avoided it for cosmetic reasons mostly. The most immediate things I've liked about it are that I can put the stop bar all the way down flush, and that I like the feel on the palm.

[Wild Bill 212]

You can top wrap your tail piece. OR, you can top wrap just the 1st and 6th string. OR, you can simply raise the tail piece a tad.

 

I don't like to introduce extra contact points on the string because these points are where a string tends to break.

 

There are many different theories on the correct operation of the TOM bridge and tail piece that argue with each other. These conflicting opinions are logical inconsistencies. Here is another logical inconsistency: if god is all powerful then can he make a rock so big that he can't lift it?

 

With a tuneomatic bridge and tail piece you can't be wrong nor right because the device doesn't care how you adjust it. It will always work..

 

 

I did the over-wrap and had buzzing issues on my LP STUDIO, so I changed it back and jacked up the stop-tail so the strings are just clearing the bridge plate. In Gibson's 'TECH-TIP' page it says to avoid bridge-plate string contact,I'd paste the link but i'm pressed for time. BUT that is why I raised the stop-tail and did the over-wrap to begin with.

 

CHEERS !

[Wild Bill 212]

.

Lots of opinions.

 

There are differing opinions on why it's a good idea to avoid having the strings contact the bridge. I find the most compelling is - if the string/s contact the bridge there could be additional force that could bend the bridge posts. This could be made worse with the stop cranked down possibly creating more even force on the bridge.

 

Bent toward the bridge pup -

 

Bent toward the stop -

 

.

 

WOW, the proof is in the picture, THANK YOU FOR POSTING THOSE PICS !

[rct]

WOW, the proof is in the picture, THANK YOU FOR POSTING THOSE PICS !

 

That proof defies my proof, which is owning and playing Tunamatic/Stoptail Gibsons since the early 70's, always with the stop bar all the way down like on my current three, and I've never seen one with bent bridge posts, nor have any of my guitar buddies, a lot of them. I have heard of them bending on the innernetz over the decades, but I agree with a fix 'em guy that says it is more a consequence of those particular posts than of the stringing.

 

rct

[badbluesplayer]

As far as bending bridge posts, this -

 

 

Every part of the bridge in front of the resultant is wanting to bend backward. The parts of the bridge behind the resultant want to bend forward. That's why the bridges in Kahune's pix are bent like sketches 2 and 3 respectively.