Will my dr100 spruce top actually get better with age ?

[hu3436]

Am I right in thinking the top on my guitar will darken due to environmental factors and this will change the tone of my guitar as it gets older, also if this is the case will that effect eventually stop from age or can an old guitar sound flat from age ?

[olie]

If you want to get a good idea about tonewood aging check out Reverb.com and their article about "torrefaction" of wood to hasten the aging process. It'll explain what you're referring to.

[Dodger11]

With more playing the wood in the top should loosen up and sound better. Most think this is true only of solid tops though. I thinking the more a guitar is played the better it sounds ( as long as the strings are changed when needed) and an old model usually sounds sweeter than a brand new one.

[YerDugliness]

Cedar tops will darken more than spruce tops, so it depends on which wood is used for the soundboard. Darkening can just be a function of the ageing of the finish put on the guitar, or it can be a natural process of the wood ageing...more of my guitar tops are cedar (or master-grade redwood) than anything else, so I do see darkening in those finishes/woods, whereas my solid wood guitars with spruce tops seem to hold their color.

 

In my experience, an all laminate guitar sounds as good on the day you take it out of the factory packaging as it is ever going to sound. Here's why I say that:

 

Picture the cells of the wood like little boxes, all 6 sides closed in. When the wood is just freshly harvested the cells are full of a viscous material (cytoplasm) that takes up air space in the cell and dampens whatever resonance could be developed if the inside of the cell were less dense with cytoplasm. What we want is for the cytoplasm inside the cells to dry up so that the cell holds more air, hence vibrating "like a bell". Have you ever noticed how a well-made goblet just rings on and on if you tap it on the outer lip? That's what you want from the wood cells in your soundboard.

 

Here's why laminate does not develop that "aged in" sound as well as solid wood...laminate is by definition thin layers glued together. Imagine a solid wood soundboard, with all of the cells having a "resonant frequency"...if that is the situation the guitar will have great tone and sustain. However, laminate products may or may NOT all be the same material, so you have not only the issue of divergent "resonant frequencies" for each layer of a different type of wood, you have additional difficulties enhancing resonance in the cells with the manner in which laminates are made with glues. Imagine how that muddies up the sound by bonding two different layers of wood with different resonant frequencies (which dampens the output)...not to mention that the glues in laminate products are there to stabilize the product, not allow it to resonate like solid wood soundboards.

 

For that reason I don't hear much tonal improvement in my laminate topped guitar, even though it is my oldest guitar...and do hear gradual tonal improvement from my solid topped guitars.

 

Because the impetus for tonal development is the increased resonance that develops within each of the cells as the cytoplasm dries out and leaves the cells empty to resonate (just like that well-made goblet), much of the ageing process requires just that...age.

 

There have been various methods of trying to speed up the ageing in process...placing the body of the guitar in front of a speaker to cause vibration in the woods, etc. There have even been mechanical devices one could clamp on the guitar to make it vibrate. Some people hear a difference, some don't (it seems to mirror the old audiophile conundrum...do you hear better fidelity with larger speaker wires?...probably, if you want to, but that may not be proven to be the case if objective, controlled studies are completed). Each of us has hearing acuity at different levels and particularly at different ages...the older we get, the more of our hearing we lose (a process called "presbycousis"...look it up)..it is just nature at work.

 

I long ago quit worrying about the tone my guitars MIGHT develop and proceeded to enjoy each for the individual tone it has...obviously, some more than others. I guess it helps that the vast majority of my guitar collection is of all solid wood construction, but a few have laminate sides and backs. I enjoy those, too!

 

Cheers from Dugly!!!

[bonzoboy]

It's a fact that a guitar that sits in a case in a closet etc. for years,won't sound nearly as good or lively as an identical guitar that was constantly played over the same time period.The wood that's exposed to regular playing is regularly vibrating which allows the cells in the wood to open up and consequently vibrate more freely.The wood-especially the top-of a guitar with little or no playing with eventually tighten up the cells and the grain will get tighter and therefore not allow the wood to vibrate as freely or project the sound as loudly.This is why a lot of acoustic guitar makers will let new guitars set for a few weeks with a special device that vibrates quietly to mimic the same frequencies that regular playing put on a guitar,but these vibrations will "loosen" or free up the cells at a much faster rate than playing would and the guitars go to their new owners sounding as lively as a guitar that has been played for years.

[capmaster]

Cedar tops will darken more than spruce tops, so it depends on which wood is used for the soundboard. Darkening can just be a function of the ageing of the finish put on the guitar, or it can be a natural process of the wood ageing...more of my guitar tops are cedar (or master-grade redwood) than anything else, so I do see darkening in those finishes/woods, whereas my solid wood guitars with spruce tops seem to hold their color.

 

In my experience, an all laminate guitar sounds as good on the day you take it out of the factory packaging as it is ever going to sound. Here's why I say that:

 

Picture the cells of the wood like little boxes, all 6 sides closed in. When the wood is just freshly harvested the cells are full of a viscous material (cytoplasm) that takes up air space in the cell and dampens whatever resonance could be developed if the inside of the cell were less dense with cytoplasm. What we want is for the cytoplasm inside the cells to dry up so that the cell holds more air, hence vibrating "like a bell". Have you ever noticed how a well-made goblet just rings on and on if you tap it on the outer lip? That's what you want from the wood cells in your soundboard.

 

Here's why laminate does not develop that "aged in" sound as well as solid wood...laminate is by definition thin layers glued together. Imagine a solid wood soundboard, with all of the cells having a "resonant frequency"...if that is the situation the guitar will have great tone and sustain. However, laminate products may or may NOT all be the same material, so you have not only the issue of divergent "resonant frequencies" for each layer of a different type of wood, you have additional difficulties enhancing resonance in the cells with the manner in which laminates are made with glues. Imagine how that muddies up the sound by bonding two different layers of wood with different resonant frequencies (which dampens the output)...not to mention that the glues in laminate products are there to stabilize the product, not allow it to resonate like solid wood soundboards.

 

For that reason I don't hear much tonal improvement in my laminate topped guitar, even though it is my oldest guitar...and do hear gradual tonal improvement from my solid topped guitars.

 

Because the impetus for tonal development is the increased resonance that develops within each of the cells as the cytoplasm dries out and leaves the cells empty to resonate (just like that well-made goblet), much of the ageing process requires just that...age.

 

There have been various methods of trying to speed up the ageing in process...placing the body of the guitar in front of a speaker to cause vibration in the woods, etc. There have even been mechanical devices one could clamp on the guitar to make it vibrate. Some people hear a difference, some don't (it seems to mirror the old audiophile conundrum...do you hear better fidelity with larger speaker wires?...probably, if you want to, but that may not be proven to be the case if objective, controlled studies are completed). Each of us has hearing acuity at different levels and particularly at different ages...the older we get, the more of our hearing we lose (a process called "presbycousis"...look it up)..it is just nature at work.

 

I long ago quit worrying about the tone my guitars MIGHT develop and proceeded to enjoy each for the individual tone it has...obviously, some more than others. I guess it helps that the vast majority of my guitar collection is of all solid wood construction, but a few have laminate sides and backs. I enjoy those, too!

 

Cheers from Dugly!!!

=D> Very good read! Excellent post, thank you.

 

Sorry, just have to repeat this excerpt:

 

I long ago quit worrying about the tone my guitars MIGHT develop and proceeded to enjoy each for the individual tone it has.

One of the thinkably wisest advices from guitarist to guitarist. [thumbup]

[Mickthemiller]

Guitars are funny things. Sometimes you just have to get a good setup and they instantly sound better. Sometimes just changing to a different gauge string. Sometimes you put new strings on of the same make and gauge and they sound crap for a week or so then open up suddenly. I'm convinced that the humidity and atmospheric pressure makes a difference. I am not convinced that playing a guitar for less than a decade will make much difference to tone. Nor do I think a plywood guitar will ever age tonewise. I do however think that a new all solid wood guitar does seem to settle after it's first few playings and the tone seems to come out a little better. This may just be the player getting used to it, as I have had guitars that seem to sound worse after a few weeks. Just my two penneth.

[Fatstrat]

If you're looking for tone improvement, IMO Martin 80/20 lights are the strings I like on the DR-100. They brighten it up considerably.

[YerDugliness]

I have a suggestion for strings, too...I like the Dean Markley GoldBronze Alchemy strings. They have great tone and they hold not only their tone but also their tune WAAAY better than any other strings I've ever used.

 

They are expensive...but they last longer than any other string I've ever used, too, so the fact that they need replaced less frequently offsets the higher cost (I buy them by the box...12 sets/box, I think...my cost ended up being about $12.70/set.)

 

I use the .011-.052's, they could be described as "light-medium" gauge, I think. I tried the .012-.054's and found them too "stiff" for me.

 

Lots of folks like to change their strings VERY frequently. I have no problem with that if that's their preference. My fingers don't seem to have much "acidity", so most brands of strings last well for me, but the Dean Markleys definitely outlast ANY other string I've ever used.

 

Cheers from Dugly

[hu3436]

If you're looking for tone improvement, IMO Martin 80/20 lights are the strings I like on the DR-100. They brighten it up considerably.

 

yeah for my recent restring i went with martin m140 lights im finding them nice to play but ive just injured my hand so the guitar wont get played for a while

[zombywoof]

You have to factor in the thick poly finish on that guitar.

[Leonard McCoy]

Am I right in thinking the top on my guitar will darken due to environmental factors and this will change the tone of my guitar as it gets older, also if this is the case will that effect eventually stop from age or can an old guitar sound flat from age ?

Guitars made of solid wood tend to "break in" -- in other words, sound better, with better response -- the older they get. However, the DR100 is an all-laminate guitar and therefore there won't be any significant change in sound the older that guitar gets. It's still a good player, though.

[hu3436]

Guitars made of solid wood tend to "break in" -- in other words, sound better, with better response -- the older they get. However, the DR100 is an all-laminate guitar and therefore there won't be any significant change in sound the older that guitar gets. It's still a good player, though.

 

 

epiphone listed my dr100 as having a spruce top ? even though the sides and back are laminate wont the top change with age

[Dodger11]

It is laminate spruce (the back and sides are laminate mahogany). Solid spruce tends to loosen up with age whereas laminate sounds the same.

[hu3436]

It is laminate spruce (the back and sides are laminate mahogany). Solid spruce tends to loosen up with age whereas laminate sounds the same.