thegreatgumbino Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Just an FYI for those that may be interested. I have a set of Waverly open back tuners with Ivoroid buttons on my 2015 Sheryl Crow Southern Jumbo Supreme. The buttons are stark white in comparison to the aged cream binding on the guitar. I thought about trying to switch the buttons for some of the Antique Acoustics aged buttons based upon Stew-Mac's tuner replacement page. Then I found This StewMac trade secrets post about using Behlen Behkol Solvent and ColorTone liquid stain to make the Ivoroid look aged. I picked up a couple new Ivoroid buttons as well as the solvent and stain from StewMac and and tested it out last night. Did the first side of a single button with one drop of stain in 5ml of solvent (noted #1 in pics). I did the second side of the button with two to three drops of stain (noted #2 in pics). The second side is a close match with the aged binding on my guitar. Here are some pics comparing the binding and buttons on the SJ to the stock Ivoroid button from Stew-Mac. I find it interesting the difference between the stark white buttons on the Waverly's vs. the cream color on the ordered Ivoroid buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Looks sharp. A definite improvement. Yeah, the whiteness of those buttons is too stark contrasted with the black headstock faceplate. Switched out the tuners on my J-35 with Golden Age Restoration tuners with the "cream" knobs and aside from tuning better, they look darn nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 I will say that sitting and rubbing continuously on the stained button for the last 5 to 10 mins the color has dulled a little. It is still stained, but not as strong as in the pics. I may try increasing the amount of stain and see how it does after the same rub test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josee Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Amazing results! Thank you so much for sharing. I'll definitely get the Behlen Behkol Solvent and the ColorTone Liquid Stain as my next purchase @ Stewmac. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Excellent ^ Looks just right I like the thought of a very dark version. Similar to seriously vintage ivory piano keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 I think it's going to take some experimenting with. The stain rubs off, but leaves it slightly darker than before. Just tried some steel wool to knock down the gloss hoping it would take the stain better. I'll play around with it some more tonight and might try soaking one button as well. I think this would work perfectly for bridge pins since you don't touch them as much as the buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Nicely done. The question was going to be if you'd prepped the buttons before applying the stain; maybe some lacquer thinner or naphtha before and after the steel wool (#000 ?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Have you thought of rubbing them down with brown (or dark tan) shoe polish? Just apply the polish, let it sit for a few minutes, then wipe off the excess with a soft cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 Have you thought of rubbing them down with brown (or dark tan) shoe polish? Just apply the polish, let it sit for a few minutes, then wipe off the excess with a soft cloth. I will try that next. Last night I hit the buttons with 3000 grit sandpaper and cleaned it with Naptha before trying the darker stain. Color looked great initially, but again after rubbing it continuously for 20 mins the color came off. It's still darker than original, but not dark enough. I did the same to another button and let it steep in the stain for 3 hours. Same result. I feel the stain would hold up for a time and then need to be re-applied to the buttons depending on how often you tune. This could be a month, six months or a year. No idea. However, I think this approach would work great for bridge pins since there is very little handling. Ideally, I'd get a set of Antique Acoustics aged buttons from Elderly and a set of open back Waverly's withOUT any buttons and install them myself. I need to call StewMac on Monday and see if they'll sell me a set without buttons, but I don't feel very confident they'll be open to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjunk Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Great info, thanks! I actually just did the same to the white buttons I added to my 45 Standard, but used coffee of all things. Had no idea whether it'd work or not, but the results are exactly what I hoped. I used extra fine steel wool on all the buttons to give them a nice chalky matte finish first, then soaked them very strong coffee for a couple days. I will say though that I just wanted to add some nice subtle warmth to the white color... wasn't after a really aged or darker "antique" look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Spray them with tinted lacquer and be done with it or spray with clear lacquer after you have them stained ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 What happens if you soak them in coke for a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickthemiller Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 What happens if you soak them in coke for a week? Not recommended. My grandad did that with his false teeth. Only gums remained. Kiddin', but coke could be lethal stuff on some materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Check this old thread out... http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/104963-vintage-tulips-to-vintage-white-buttons-update/page__hl__southern+jumbo+tuners__st__20 Hope it helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 These don't address the color issue, but they do deal with button replacement: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Tuners/NewButton/newbutton.html http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Tuners/ButtonTransplant/buttontransplant.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Put a pair of glasses on with the lenses coloured Problemsolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Last night I hit the buttons with 3000 grit sandpaper and cleaned it with Naptha before trying the darker stain. Color looked great initially, but again after rubbing it continuously for 20 mins the color came off. It's still darker than original, but not dark enough. I did the same to another button and let it steep in the stain for 3 hours. Same result. I played around with applying the ColorTone stain directly to the button tonight. I hit the button with 800 grit sandpaper and then cleaned it off with Naptha before applying the stain directly to the button. I've documented the steps in the pictures below for those that are interested. I compared it to the button I did in the previous post with the 3000 grit paper. Again, I think this would be a great approach for bridge pins that wouldn't be handled much if any. Initial comparison of untouched and previously stained button: Button after rubbing ColorTone liquid stain directly on button with q-tip without any Behlen Behkol Solvent: Wiped off the stain with a paper towel after a minute. Notice the whiter portion at the bottom of the button. This is where I didn't ge all the gloss off with the 800 grit: Atfter resanding the above spot and re-applying the stain and wiping off: Wiped down the button with Naptha to remove any stain. None came off on the q-tip. Initial comparison of previously stained & rubbed button, newly stained button and binding: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Comparison of buttons and binding after continuously rubbing newly stained button between fingers for 5 mins: Comparison of buttons and binding after continuously rubbing newly stained button between fingers for an additional 5 mins (10 mins total): Comparison of buttons and binding after continuously rubbing newly stained button between fingers for an additional 5 mins (15 mins total): Comparison of buttons and binding after continuously rubbing newly stained button between fingers for an additional 5 mins (20 mins total): Comparison of buttons to white buttons on SJ: As you can see, the stain rubs off over time. Granted, this is me continuously rubbing the button with my fingers for 5 mins at a time. It's not realistically going to fade that fast if you're tuning normally since it's only being touched a fraction of that time. But it may have to be re-stained at some point down the line. It still looks better than the stark white buttons on the SJ. I also tried clipping one of the spare buttons like this: It may be a better approach vs. the heat route (see Stew-Mac link in original post) since Ivoroid requires more heat than plastic to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Great post and pictorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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