'57 Goldtop Les Paul

[PelhamBlueFire]

So, some of you know I am looking into acquiring a '57 Goldtop Les Paul. Also gassing for the '57 Black Beauty LP Custom, but that's for later down the road. Right now, it's time for a Goldtop.

 

My question is this: how much of an upgrade is the True Historic over the Standard Historic Les Paul? Here where I live, it's 1500-2000 euros more for a TH generally. Is the sound and feel that much different?

[scottpaine_69]

So, some of you know I am looking into acquiring a '57 Goldtop Les Paul. Also gassing for the '57 Black Beauty LP Custom, but that's for later down the road. Right now, it's time for a Goldtop.

 

My question is this: how much of an upgrade is the True Historic over the Standard Historic Les Paul? Here where I live, it's 1500-2000 euros more for a TH generally. Is the sound and feel that much different?

Here is a link to the guys from Andertons talking about some of the differances between the 2. For the most part I believe the plastics are closere to what was on the 57 in the true historic. In my opion not enough of a differance for the price..

[PelhamBlueFire]

Here is a link to the guys from Andertons talking about some of the differances between the 2. For the most part I believe the plastics are closere to what was on the 57 in the true historic. In my opion not enough of a differance for the price..

Thanks mate! They also talk about the hot hide glue being used to attach the maple cap to the mahogany body. And on the TH, Gibson rounds the fingerboard slightly. All in all, you'd think the guitars wouldn't sound that much different, right? The neck profile and the size of the frets should be the same. That - along with the sound - is what's important to me.

[Pin]

I can't answer this question but I remember reading a post where Pippy did answer it (having played both). If I remember rightly the difference is chalk and cheese. Both are (of course) superb but the true historic is in another (higher) league altogether.

 

I hope I have not misremembered. Better Pippy answer directly.

[PelhamBlueFire]

I can't answer this question but I remember reading a post where Pippy did answer it (having played both). If I remember rightly the difference is chalk and cheese. Both are (of course) superb but the true historic is in another (higher) league altogether.

 

I hope I have not misremembered. Better Pippy answer directly.

Thanks for your reply, mate! I hope I could afford the True Historic. They are selling for a lot less now here in Europe, so it might be in my reach.

[Basketcase]

Very minor differences.The current Standard models were the top of the line reissue models in 2014, no difference. If you can afford to pay a lot more for plastics, glue, and a bit more for labor spent on the finish and finishing touches, go for it! I've owned both, for me it wasnt worth it for the TH so I sold my 2016 TH R8 and kept the 2016 Standard R8. I also have a 2014 R6, wouldn't trade it for a TH version! Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I find it very unlikely that Pippy thought the True historic was much better. I know he once played a collectors choice and loved it, perhaps that's what Pin remembers. I could be wrong of course and I've texted Pippy to draw the thread to his attention.

 

I've not played one but really struggle to imagine how much better my R8 could sound with Hyde glue.

[pippy]

Did I hear someone mention my name?..........

 

Yes, Farns is correct. It was the Collector's Choice instruments which I have played that were all so very impressive.

To put it straight; I have played a great many Historics over the years and the best of them were, IMO, on a par with the CC models so it's not as if the CS can't make sublime playing-and-sounding regular Historics. The only difference is that of the half-dozen or so CC's I've played ALL of them without exception were utterly sublime - and I really mean sublime - whereas some regular CS examples have been less stellar than others. Whether the CS puts more effort into the CCs or whether more experienced luthiers are involved is a moot point.

 

As far as the OP's question goes;

My own opinion is that molecular-level plastics, truss-rod without sheath and hot-hide glue might possibly - and certainly arguably - all-together make a miniscule difference to the end sound under lab conditions (but I truly doubt it) but in any real-world situation any slight differences due to the 'traditional' manufacturing process will be unnoticeable. As far as I'm concerned the accuracy of the TH series is interesting more from the historical side than the practical side - and I don't have any issue with that attention to detail whatsoever. I rather approve of it TBH.

 

Personally I'd play anything and everything regardless of TH or not. After all; two of the five best LPs I've ever played were regular USA-line 1960 Classics so the 'right one' for you could come from anywhere...

 

YMMV.

 

Pip.

 

EDIT : To get a rough idea of what I mean by how very 'Special' one particular Les Paul can be just watch the first minute or so of this demo. I had played a few of the CCs before I saw this clip for the first time and I understood exactly what they are on about. It pretty much mirrors perfectly my own reaction when I played what is now my #1...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwFVqyTTsg

[NHTom]

 

EDIT : To get a rough idea of what I mean by how very 'Special' one particular Les Paul can be just watch the first minute or so of this demo. I had played a few of the CCs before I saw this clip for the first time and I understood exactly what they are on about. It pretty much mirrors perfectly my own reaction when I played what is now my #1...

 

 

 

I probably didn't understand what Pippy meant in the above quote..........I've had "WOW" guitars in the past.......blessed by finding them actually. I've probably had 50 or so guitars of my own over the years and that coupled with working in guitar shops and crewing for bands, I've had the pleasure of playing many great instruments. Out of all the ones I've had, I've had a few that were crap.....lol........many "good" guitars, and been lucky to have a handful that I consider "great"........just the ones that I felt bonded with me/called to me.

 

I just picked up my 2016 Standard Historic 1958 Gloss Lemonburst, and I NOW understand what Pippy was getting at above..........It is on another level. Difficult to put in to words.......again, I have other GREAT guitars that I truly love, but this thing is just beyond what I thought was possible. I can only imagine it is what having a really high end pair of custom made leather shoes after they get broken in must feel like......

 

NHTom

[Del]

I guess it's a case of 'you get what you pay for' and I've no doubt that there's more hands-on work involved in creating the True Historic over the standard version but there's a huge price difference and I think the sonic and playability differences will be very small (if any). And when it comes to a goldtop, whether there's better quality maple been used on the top or not is never going to be known as it's covered in paint.

 

I think if you were looking at a 58 or 59 then there may be some merit in considering the differences between the two ranges as they say that they spend more time on the carving of the tops of the true models. So you might see some difference there.

 

As for any sonic differences between hot hide glue, molecular differences between plastics, etc I'm not so sure. I think this could be more for the benefit of the true 'glue sniffers' among us. Yes, I understand that if Gibson are having a limited number of pickup rings, pickguards, etc made from very specific materials then the cost per item will obviously be higher than for more 'off the peg' items made in their thousands but whether that impacts on the sounds to be had from the guitar is very questionable. The only thing that does impact (to a small extent) on playability is the time taken to roll the edges of the binding to give a smoother feel - but hey you can do that yourself at no cost!

 

You're paying a premium price for the standard historics over the standard range and then a 'super premium' price for the true historics. This is a combination of the increased labour/materials costs plus an element of 'exclusivity' value and I don't have an issue with any of that.

 

I got a standard historic goldtop a few weeks ago and it's a marvellous guitar in terms of finish, playability and tones. It's the most expensive guitar in my collection and I don't grudge the price a bit.

 

Would I have paid the extra for a true historic. Absolutely not! The only reason I got this one is because it was discounted by 33% from the 'normal' retail price as it had sat in the shop for 5 or 6 years with a horrendous price tag on it and they wanted to shift it on to make room for more affordable instruments. So it really was a one-off opportunity for me to get a top of the line LP (which just happens to have originally appeared in my birth year and matches my Fender 57 Twin) at a 'reasonable' price that I could afford (and could just about justify) to pay.

 

Does it make me play better? No, probably not. Does it make me feel good. Absolutely!!

[pippy]

...I just picked up my 2016 Standard Historic 1958 Gloss Lemonburst, and I NOW understand what Pippy was getting at above..........It is on another level. Difficult to put in to words.......

 

Pip.