The NHS

[Guest Farnsbarns]

In the UK we have a national health service. I know some other counties don't and the idea of having one is contentious. This isn't a political post however. Please let's not get into Obamacare.

 

I just wanted to sing the praises of our NHS. This week the headlines are full of doom and gloom about how funding cuts have created a humanitarian crisis in the NHS. Specifically this week.

 

On Sunday night I had no sleep. I was in pain, not a lot of pain but one of those relentlessly annoying pains, like toothache. It was under my right arm and by the morning there was quite a swollen area.

 

On Monday morning I decided I needed to see a doctor. This means waiting until the GP opens at 8.30 and calling quick but I needed to leave the house before that. We headed off in the right direction but decided to go to the "minor injuries" walk in at a local hospital.

 

They were great. I had an issue with a sweat gland called hidrodinitis. They quickly arranged for me to see the surgical team at Pembury hospital (much bigger hospital, less local but still fairly close). I expected to see them and go on a waiting list for something to happen.

 

By 8pm on Monday evening I had had surgery under general anesthetic and having demonstrated that I was ok to walk about etc they let me go home. I have had to take the week off.

 

This wasn't an emergency (to me), just very uncomfortable. All the people I saw that day were cheerful, helpful, didn't seem to be struggling at all and provided me a fantastic service.

 

In the recent past I've said some negative things about our NHS. At the time they were reasonable things to say given my experience but right now I have to be thankful for this amazing service and to all the people who work to make it what it is.

 

Thanks Queen Victoria Hospital, thanks Pembury Hospital, thanks to the NHS.

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

Here in Spain we have a similar system.

The only negative thing I could say is that sometimes you have to wait literally months before a specialist in a medical field sees you.

 

And the doctors are known to be very good.

The surgeon that fixed my finger was a freakin artist.

 

Glad it worked out for you Farns, enjoy your free time with your guitars and bonsais (if possible).

[daveinspain]

Here in Spain we have a similar system.

The only negative thing I could say is that sometimes you have to wait literally months before a specialist in a medical field sees you.

 

And the doctors are known to be very good.

The surgeon that fixed my finger was a freakin artist.

 

Glad it worked out for you Farns, enjoy your free time with your guitars and bonsais (if possible).

 

I agree and disagree with you... I am an American living in Spain, been here for 24 years. I have seen the healthcare system here in action on many occasions. I have had family members here visiting who needed emergency service, were treated and sent home, no questions asked and no coast! I had an incident myself last month, I was feeling lousy for a few days, stomick pains, cold sweats, nausea...etc. So I went to my local health clinic and saw my assigned Doctor and explained what was going on. She asked me to lay down on a cot in her office and examined me. Touching my stomick here and there and asking if I felt pain in the different areas. I didn't. All of the sudden she says she wanted to do an electro cardiogram. I had never given my heart a thought. I was thinking a flu bug or something. Anyway after the cardiogram she sent me to the hospital emergency room... my blood pressure was 200 over 110 on arrival..! They immediately treated me giving me a blood pressure pill and tranquilizer, took blood for análisis another cardiogram and had me under observation until the results came back. As it turned out I have hipertensión and due too some recent stress in my life I have been having spikes of high blood pressure. All I have to do is take a blood pressure pill every day and get more exersize... In summery I was diagnosed, treated and sent home and all at no cost...zero!!!

It is true if you have a non life threatening condition you may have to wait in line to see a doctor but in any emergency situation you get priority... Doctors in Spain are paid well they have nice houses and drive nice cars but they are not millionaires with several houses and yachts. There are no frívolas law suits or ambulance chaser lawyers or adds on TV urging people to sue for what you deserve.

 

Spain is known for its quality medical service and innovation in healthcare and investigation in many health treatments and issues. It's not perfect but I'm not sure how it could be any better..,

[Searcy]

I took a friend of mine who was visiting from the UK out for dinner last weekend. He's in his mid 20's and paying out 40% income tax. He wasn't too happy about that.

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

Uhm you don't even need to disagree...

I should have clarified that the long waiting lists are only for routine exams and the such.

Never for emergencies.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I took a friend of mine who was visiting from the UK out for dinner last weekend. He's in his mid 20's and paying out 40% income tax. He wasn't too happy about that.

To be clear, he lied or he doesn't understand (not uncommon amongst 20 somethings). He only pays 40% on earnings over £43k. Since £43k is double the average income that seems fair during times of austerity. He pays no tax at all on the first £11k he earns and only 20% on that between £11k and £43k. When he gets to £150k he'll pay 50% from £150k and upwards. We also pay for a lot of stuff in our income tax which many of you pay direct to your municipality or, indeed, to private firms.

 

Not that I'm suggesting the US should adopt our system. Just prefer accurate information. Especially information being used to uphold the virtues of a political philosophy, or to denigrate those of another. There's always more to it.

[pippy]

Glad to hear the problem was not too serious and that you are fine, Farns.

 

Another +1 for the NHS from me.

I had to have an emergency hernia op. last autumn and the speed at which I was seen, the care I was given once in the hospital and the quality of the operation couldn't have been better.

 

As far as the relative merits of the UK and US tax systems go;

 

We also pay for a lot of stuff in our income tax which many of you pay direct to your municipality...

We were visiting friends who live in Montclair (sp?), NJ last year and the monies they have to pay for their local services made my eyes water. It was well into five figures. By way of a comparison our payment for the equivalent services here in London is roughly $1,700.

 

If they don't get you one way they will get you another way. Death and Taxes, as the saying goes...

 

Pip.

[Searcy]

To be clear, he lied or he doesn't understand (not uncommon amongst 20 somethings). He only pays 40% on earnings over £43k. Since £43k is double the average income that seems fair during times of austerity. He pays no tax at all on the first £11k he earns and only 20% on that between £11k and £43k. When he gets to £150k he'll pay 50% from £150k and upwards. We also pay for a lot of stuff in our income tax which many of you pay direct to your municipality or, indeed, to private firms.

 

Not that I'm suggesting the US should adopt our system. Just prefer accurate information. Especially information being used to uphold the virtues of a political philosophy, or to denigrate those of another. There's always more to it.

 

I have no idea how much he makes but he's an accountant so I'm guessing he understands the tax system. And I made the comment in response to Daves post about his healthcare being free.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I have no idea how much he makes but he's an accountant so I'm guessing he understands the tax system. And I made the comment in response to Daves post about his healthcare being free.

 

You're probably right. I guess you misunderstood that being the case, or maybe he lied, who knows but it's a simple system which most of us understand. Google it?

 

If he's a chartered accountant working for someone else he might earn £50k if he's doing very well and has a first class degree from Oxbridge. At C£50k he's paying C£9k income tax. That's a lot less than 20%, let alone 40%. To pay 40% overall he'd be earning around £250k. More than 10 times the average income, my wife is an accountant and he ain't but let's say he might, I think those earning 10 times the average should pay more and 40% doesn't seem offensive but again, there is no comparison because of the completely different way different areas of public service are funded in our 2 countries.

 

Dave's in Spain btw. The clue is in the name. Not sure how your friend from the UK paying 40%ict is relevant but it matters not.

 

Also, just to gently point at the "quote" function. If replying to specific post it can be used to show that,even when providing information about UK ICT rates in response to a post about health care costs in Spain.

[pippy]

...he's an accountant so I'm guessing he understands the tax system...

He's an accountant so I'm guessing he's well paid!......lol!

 

And why not? I'm self-employed and have my end-of-year tax return calculated by an accountancy firm because they really DO "understand" the tax system.

 

Interviewer for the position of an accountant : "What does 2 + 2 add up to?"

Interviewee : "What do you want it to add up to?"

Interviewer : "The job's yours..."

 

Pip.

['Scales]

In Australia I think you need to be earning around US $300k (after all deductions) to see 40% of it go to tax. Probably similar to UK system. Medicare is an additional 1-2% tax dependent on income and provides for no/low cost healthcare to all.

[merciful-evans]

The NHS are constantly struggling with lack of funds, or cutbacks etc. but at its heart are fantastic professionals who care and do their damnedest for us.

 

I have been overseas & been stuck without medical help when I needed it. We in the UK are lucky to have the NHS and I am proud of them.

[IanHenry]

Well, you won't here me complaining about the NHS, they've been keeping me alive since I was six years old!

The only problem with the NHS is austerity governments starving it of funds, and dare I say it, it seems to be far better than the system in the U.S. I've lost count of the amount of times I've read on this forum about people having to sell their guitar, or not buy the one they wanted because of medical bills. You won't hear that from members in the U.K. I think there was a period when Obama came to power when various opposing politicians /reporters were showing the NHS in a bad light, which is totally incorrect, but that's politicians for you.

 

 

Ian

[pippy]

I have been overseas & been stuck without medical help when I needed it....

You really should get one of these, m-e (and for goodness' sakes do it before article 50 is triggered), and it's free into the bargain;

 

http://www.nhs.uk/NH...t-the-ehic.aspx

 

In fact everyone here in the UK reading this and who travel to continental Europe should apply for one.

It only covers healthcare in Europe, obviously, but having it is much better than the alternative.

 

Pip.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

To add some amusement to this. When it came to asking if I would be in overnight they said that I was scheduled for evening surgery and that they doubted I'd even know about it. I was resigned to an overnight stay despite being a pretty tough nut they were fairly sure.

 

10 mins after surgery I enquired what happens next, they said I couldn't go back to the ward until my blood pressure, oxygen and pulse had all returned to normal. I hyperventilated until the oxygen came up to 100%, then I moved about in bed until the blood pressure had come up along with the pulse. After remarking how quickly I had recovered they wheeled me back to the ward at which point I got up and got dressed and enquired if I could go outside for a cigarette. At that point they let me go home as long as I was accompanied.

[pippy]

...After remarking how quickly I had recovered they wheeled me back to the ward at which point I got up and got dressed and enquired if I could go outside for a cigarette. At that point they let me go home as long as I was accompanied...

 

At least both your hospitals have sensible names. I was treated at the Mayday Hospital, Croydon.

Who on earth thought that naming a hospital after the Standard International Distress Signal would be a good idea? Sends out QUITE the wrong message...

 

Pip.

[Searcy]

He's an accountant so I'm guessing he's well paid!......lol!

 

And why not? I'm self-employed and have my end-of-year tax return calculated by an accountancy firm because they really DO "understand" the tax system.

 

Interviewer for the position of an accountant : "What does 2 + 2 add up to?"

Interviewee : "What do you want it to add up to?"

Interviewer : "The job's yours..."

 

Pip.

 

 

I'm thinking I might make a good accountant.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

 

At least both your hospitals have sensible names. I was treated at the Mayday Hospital, Croydon.

Who on earth thought that naming a hospital after the Standard International Distress Signal would be a good idea? Sends out QUITE the wrong message...

 

Pip.

 

 

I must say my previous dim view of our NHS, which was basically that it dropped to the point it wasn't worth having, was entirely based around 2 treatments there of my own and some horrific misdiagnoses my wife had received.

 

I'm glad you had good care there but I'm sure you know as well as I do the reputation it has. One massive plus side to moving to the sticks.

 

You know they renamed it Croydon University Hospital to shake off the "may-die" moniker the locals had taken to using. Do I remember reading or hearing lately that is was to shut due to poor clinical standards or is that a figment of my (prescription) drug addled mind?

[pippy]

You know they renamed it Croydon University Hospital to shake off the "may-die" moniker the locals had taken to using.

Actually I didn't know it had been changed at the time of my op. Hadn't a clue where they were talking about.

I had hoped there was a brand spanking new hospital just recently commissioned only to be told; "No; it's the new name for the old Mayday..."

 

It's had some money invested, though.

In the Recovery Suite, for example, there is a very large overhead display board - such as found in airports and railway termini - which has the names of the patients currently undergoing recovery with regular status updates. When my wife came to collect me (I couldn't go home on my own) she was amazed to see she could watch my 'progress' as it happened; knew when it was time to collect me and in which ward I could be found. Quite smart. For Croydon...

 

I joked with the staff that they should call it their "Departure Board" - but that perhaps that name had echoes of the old 'May-Die' about it, too.......

 

It's a work in progress (still, AFAIK) and various bits are closed for rebuilding. That's probably why you thought it had been shut.

 

Pip.

[Pinch]

My translation (I have the book in Swedish): "'Broke your neck? So how much did that set you back, Ozzy? Still paying it off?'

 

'Actually, I broke it in merry ole England. So it was free.'

 

I thought I wad gonna have to get THAT ****er a doctor.."

 

-The "best-of" book of Ozzy Osbourne's column for medical advice ("Trust me, I'm dr. Ozzy" is the original title)

 

(HIGHLY recommended btw. His daughter just put out a bio - I'd get this one first...)

 

Sweden still has an NHS-type system. It's apparently overloaded atm... (Duh.)

 

It's been good to me, though. Then again, for every dollar I've made, with "hidden taxes" included, I actually got 30%, so...

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Actually I didn't know it had been changed at the time of my op. Hadn't a clue where they were talking about.

I had hoped there was a brand spanking new hospital just recently commissioned only to be told; "No; it's the new name for the old Mayday..."

 

It's had some money invested, though.

In the Recovery Suite, for example, there is a very large overhead display board - such as found in airports and railway termini - which has the names of the patients currently undergoing recovery with regular status updates. When my wife came to collect me (I couldn't go home on my own) she was amazed to see she could watch my 'progress' as it happened; knew when it was time to collect me and in which ward I could be found. Quite smart. For Croydon...

 

I joked with the staff that they should call it their "Departure Board" - but that perhaps that name had echoes of the old 'May-Die' about it, too.......

 

It's a work in progress (still, AFAIK) and various bits are closed for rebuilding. That's probably why you thought it had been shut.

 

Pip.

 

Just did some digging. They intend to close one of 5 SW London hospitals. During recent inspections all other options received the best risk assessment score (6/6) while Mayday received the worst (1/6). I suspect I was reading someone's interpretation of that situation but it seems fair to say it's not a 'good' hospital.

 

After my injury 3 years ago I was put on neurological observation there with specific observations to do done hourly. I wasn't being checked, not seeing a single nurse for the first 5 hours. At shift change the ward sister on duty got to my bed and was clearly unable to tell the sister coming on shift who I was or why I was there. It was all rather embarrassing. The new sister assured me that the obs would start now she was here. At 1 am I felt very odd and asked for a doctor. A nurse then very quickly filled in 5 or 6 hourly reports because they still hadn't been done. I complained to the nurse doing this and she said, and I quote... " Arghh, you don't need neurological obs. Most of the patients we see here for that look a mess, you look OK to me". I was very impressed by the implementation of x-ray vision which allowed this nurse to see the bleed on my frontal lobe was fine, right through my skull and without doing the obs a neurologist had said I must stay in hospital for.

 

If one nurse had made a huge clinical failing I would think nothing of it but 2 nurses and 2 ward sisters, frightening. It's a good job I was OK because that 1am conversation was the last nurse I spoke to other than in passing for the entire period I was there. They just didn't do the obs a doctor had ordered because they felt they knew better. I really think I could have layed down and died overnight had things turned out different. They would have been none the wiser until the next morning.

 

When telling my GP about this, in the presence of my wife, I said I had considered walking out. My wife commented how silly I was. The GP said she would have walked out. I'd be better off being observed by my wife at home than not being observed at all in hospital was her view.

[Hall]

Don't know about all of the US, but where I'm located the system has become so impersonal with the physicians (who are now mere hospital employees) one is a burger patty going down the assembly line for a buck to be made and that is it.

[pippy]

...I was very impressed by the implementation of x-ray vision which allowed this nurse to see the bleed on my frontal lobe was fine, right through my skull and without doing the obs a neurologist had said I must stay in hospital for...

 

Well, clearly I received a very different level of care than you did 3 years ago.

 

I was only in for five hours or so but I couldn't fault anything the whole time I was there from reception to release.

 

As I'm now over 40 (just...) I got the full MOT treatment. I must have had about 15 checks on everything from Blood Pressure to Blood/Oxygenation at extremities of fingers and toes; Liver Check; Renal Function; lungs, heart, a 12-point ECG and on and on and on...(*)...

From there I went to a waiting room for around 20 mins and then I was prepped for my op. Ten mins later I was under the knife. When I came back to my senses there was a nurse waiting to assess my state and give me a cup of tea. After I proved I could go to the loo my wife was allowed to collect me. From start to finish there was never a time when I was left on my own - time spent 'asleep' apart.

 

Perhaps as Mayday they were adjudged to be under 'Special Measures' and were allocated a new Head-Teacher to improve their OFSTED mark?

 

Pip.

 

(*) The REALLY good surprise news was that my readings were all rather excellent. Much to my astonishment.......'The Claret' beckons, methinks!

[Versatile]

Forget Ye Not......the cheap headline grabbing the media use every day to rubbish the NHS.....:blink:

 

Maximum negative emotion....Minimum verifiable factual content....

 

The NHS is a soft target like any public service.....education, police etc....all suffer similar abuse....

 

V

 

[Guest Farnsbarns]

 

Well, clearly I received a very different level of care than you did 3 years ago.

 

I was only in for five hours or so but I couldn't fault anything the whole time I was there from reception to release.

 

As I'm now over 40 (just...) I got the full MOT treatment. I must have had about 15 checks on everything from Blood Pressure to Blood/Oxygenation at extremities of fingers and toes; Liver Check; Renal Function; lungs, heart, a 12-point ECG and on and on and on...(*)...

From there I went to a waiting room for around 20 mins and then I was prepped for my op. Ten mins later I was under the knife. When I came back to my senses there was a nurse waiting to assess my state and give me a cup of tea. After I proved I could go to the loo my wife was allowed to collect me. From start to finish there was never a time when I was left on my own - time spent 'asleep' apart.

 

Perhaps as Mayday they were adjudged to be under 'Special Measures' and were allocated a new Head-Teacher to improve their OFSTED mark?

 

Pip.

 

(*) The REALLY good surprise news was that my readings were all rather excellent. Much to my astonishment.......'The Claret' beckons, methinks!

 

I forgot about the triage nurse who saw me on arrival. The ambulance crew carefully went through all the details of what had happened and how they'd seen me deteriorate from conversational to far worse. My wife recounts of how she seemed to wait for them to leave before explaining to the doctor that she thought I was drunk and should be sent home. My wife had to contest and tell the doctor what the ambulance crew had said. The doc said to send me for a CT scan which was when they found the bleed.

 

I hope it has improved but I'll drag myself to whatever line gets me to East Surrey or Pembury before I go back there. I think I'm a bit PTSD about the place. (My apologies to any PTSD sufferers, I don't mean to make light, just a colloquial term that came to mind)