Setting the Zero Fret Nut

[merciful-evans]

After I got my 2015 LP back from the luthier, I didn’t like the set up he’d done. His work had been excellent on my other guitars, but something was wrong here. When we discussed it, he said that the nut was set too high, and so he’d lowered it.

 

Now I had set the nut just the way it was shipped from Gibson (I had replaced the brass nut with the titanium one) to within .0005” of the original measurement. I didn’t keep those measurements, so I had no idea how to remedy this.

 

The problem was the action at the upper end of the fingerboard; -upward of the 8th fret. This is where I mostly solo. I don’t care much about the lower end. It’s always good enough.

 

No doubt the luthier had set this as he did all similar guitars. In the case of my LP, I knew it played easier before he’d lowered the nut. I had never had to think about adjustable nut setting before, so it took weeks (yes weeks!) of trial & error to get the set up just the way I liked it. I eventually set the nut much higher, and lowered the bridge proportionally.

 

Now the lower fret area has a much higher action, but that’s perfectly ok for me. My preferred ‘working area’ was now just the way I wanted it to be. Since then I have used the LP more for practicing and enjoying it again. More crucially, its also gig ready.

 

Today, I came across this on the Gibson website: It confirms everything I had ‘imagined’ and worked towards.

 

Zero-Fret Adjustable Nut

First introduced in 2015, the Zero-Fret Adjustable Nut (Z-FAN for short) continues as a standard feature in Gibson’s High Performance line. Operating in a manner similar to bridge adjustments, you can adjust Z-FAN’s height and angle. For example, if you prefer a really light touch, set both the nut and bridge as low as possible. But if you’re a high fret “tapper” and power chord “basher,” then choose lower action on the higher frets by lowering the bridge, and higher action on the lower frets by raising the nut. You can also angle the nut—if, for instance, you prefer higher action on the lower strings, and lower action on the higher strings.

 

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Gear-Tech/en-us/What-are-Gibson%E2%80%99s-Top-Guitar-Innovations.aspx

 

I will now remeasure & note down the nut height settings (at the screw positions) for future reference. I'm sure its now higher than originally, but its just fine all the same.

[Roach]

I have a 2015 LP Studio that has no gforce but it does have zero fret nut that i replaced with the titanium piece.

I understand the bridge/nut height changing the action up and down the neck, but, How do you "also adjust the angle of the nut"?

[merciful-evans]

Since there are only 2 adjustment screws, I take 'the angle' to mean any asymmetrical adjustment. Eg: raising the nut higher at the low end would allow for more string vibration of the wound strings.

[Roach]

Since there are only 2 adjustment screws, I take 'the angle' to mean any asymmetrical adjustment. Eg: raising the nut higher at the low end would allow for more string vibration of the wound strings.

 

 

 

ah yeah that makes sense... i was scratching my head over that for a bit. Now that you explained it, it seems obvious. thx Its difficult to do because my neck is straight but the design of the fretboard is weird like the board itself intentionally changes for top and bottom as it goes down the neck like waves. I saw a pic once on the gibson site that shows this but ill add it later to this post , lazy to look now...

[merciful-evans]

ah yeah that makes sense... i was scratching my head over that for a bit. Now that you explained it, it seems obvious. thx Its difficult to do because my neck is straight but the design of the fretboard is weird like the board itself intentionally changes for top and bottom as it goes down the neck like waves. I saw a pic once on the gibson site that shows this but ill add it later to this post , lazy to look now...

 

Its something most of us never had to concern ourselves with before. Raise or lower action at the bridge, and that was it. Now we have the adjustable nut, where do you start from? :)

[Roach]

Its something most of us never had to concern ourselves with before. Raise or lower action at the bridge, and that was it. Now we have the adjustable nut, where do you start from? :)

 

 

 

I do not know but i do have a problem tuning that has something to do with the nut. I been starting with the d string and comming back to the A and low E last, but even doing so if i tune the A string then the Low E, then recheck the A its now sharp. Same thing happens doing the low E first. So i tune a flat then the E and go back and forth several time till i get them both , but its a pain in the behind and i know its got to do with the zero fret nut becase when i replaced the brass one with the titanium nut and set it with the action i like it at, is when this started. I have messed around with it but stil dont know how to solve it.

[merciful-evans]

I do not know but i do have a problem tuning that has something to do with the nut. I been starting with the d string and comming back to the A and low E last, but even doing so if i tune the A string then the Low E, then recheck the A its now sharp. Same thing happens doing the low E first. So i tune a flat then the E and go back and forth several time till i get them both , but its a pain in the behind and i know its got to do with the zero fret nut becase when i replaced the brass one with the titanium nut and set it with the action i like it at, is when this started. I have messed around with it but stil dont know how to solve it.

 

Well I think it would be better to get the action as you want first. Then concentrate on intonation afterwards. I haven't done this either mind, so its just an opinion.

 

Its hard to imagine how its changed though, as the titanium nut's zero fret should be in the exact same place as the old brass one. Only the setup has changed since then, so that must account for it. I have never yet had to alter intonation on a Gibson, but the luthier I use tells me he spends quite some time on this part of any setup.

[Roach]

Well I think it would be better to get the action as you want first. Then concentrate on intonation afterwards. I haven't done this either mind, so its just an opinion.

 

Its hard to imagine how its changed though, as the titanium nut's zero fret should be in the exact same place as the old brass one. Only the setup has changed since then, so that must account for it. I have never yet had to alter intonation on a Gibson, but the luthier I use tells me he spends quite some time on this part of any setup.

 

 

 

 

i do not think its an intonation problem. i put a lil grease just a tiny bit in the grooves, and stretched the strings real good but the low E and the A string still go sharp when i try tuning the other one

[merciful-evans]

i do not think its an intonation problem. i put a lil grease just a tiny bit in the grooves, and stretched the strings real good but the low E and the A string still go sharp when i try tuning the other one

 

oh I misunderstood you. So one wound string is affected when you apply tension to another?

 

That does not sound right. I dont know what sort of neck your LP has, but that seems wrong. What string gauges are you using? Anything heavy?

Or have you knocked or dropped the guitar at some point?

[Roach]

oh I misunderstood you. So one wound string is affected when you apply tension to another?

 

That does not sound right. I dont know what sort of neck your LP has, but that seems wrong. What string gauges are you using? Anything heavy?

Or have you knocked or dropped the guitar at some point?

 

 

 

the low e and the a string are the two i am talking about... if i tune the A string then the low E, the A will be sharp so i retune the A string and now the low E is sharp. I go back and forth with this till I tune one of them flat the the other and back and forth little at a time till i finally get them both right. The D string tunes to d and stays on D, and so i usually start there and come back to A and low E last

 

No the guitar has never been dropped it is only a year or so old. The problem used to be solved with a little lube on the nut, (no puns here pls), and some string bending on both sides of the nut, however when i replaced the nut and reset the action, those things do not seem to work.

[merciful-evans]

If you have replaced the 10-46 strings with a heavier gauge, it would increase string tension. It still shouldn't do what you're describing, but if in addition to that, the A & E strings were tight in the nut slots, maybe that would account for it?

 

The main thing is it has not been dropped/damaged. I had a similar problem with my Hagstrom Deuce. A drop produced a tiny hairline crack at the base of the neck. It still played & tuned ok, but the string tension pulled that crack open, and over time might have produced your problem.

 

I suggest raising this in the main Les Paul or Lounge, so more tech guys get to see it. Not many look in here.

[Roach]

If you have replaced the 10-46 strings with a heavier gauge, it would increase string tension. It still shouldn't do what you're describing, but if in addition to that, the A & E strings were tight in the nut slots, maybe that would account for it?

 

The main thing is it has not been dropped/damaged. I had a similar problem with my Hagstrom Deuce. A drop produced a tiny hairline crack at the base of the neck. It still played & tuned ok, but the string tension pulled that crack open, and over time might have produced your problem.

 

I suggest raising this in the main Les Paul or Lounge, so more tech guys get to see it. Not many look in here.

 

 

 

nope no drops or damage, It is very well kept, still new , thx for the suggestion

[Roach]

If you have replaced the 10-46 strings with a heavier gauge, it would increase string tension. It still shouldn't do what you're describing, but if in addition to that, the A & E strings were tight in the nut slots, maybe that would account for it?

The main thing is it has not been dropped/damaged. I had a similar problem with my Hagstrom Deuce. A drop produced a tiny hairline crack at the base of the neck. It still played & tuned ok, but the string tension pulled that crack open, and over time might have produced your problem.

 

I suggest raising this in the main Les Paul or Lounge, so more tech guys get to see it. Not many look in here.

 

 

 

 

You know what i think you may have just answered my question and i missed it... I think thats whats up, the grooves in the new titanium nut all seem to be the same width and obviously the wound strings are thicker. It must be that they are getting stuck momentarily? or taking longer to shift the tension evenly. That is why i was using a toothpick to put a tiny bit of grease on the slots but if the groove is not wide enough especially on the low e than i guess that is not enough... Do i dare try to file the slot myself to make it a lil wider? or back to my luthier? He is an hour away which in the bay area means an all day excursion

[Rabs]

You see this is exactly why we can never tell anyone exact specs...

 

So many people come on here and complain about buzzing strings etc... The thing is is that as you explained, your luthier did it in a way he thought was good, but wasn't right for you.. So how are Gibson able to know what each individuals playing style is and how they like it... This is why when you buy a guitar, if you want it to be comfortable for you, that really a player needs to learn how to set this stuff up themselves.. Non of it is that difficult and theres nothing wrong with the trial and error approach.

 

As long as the frets are ok and you can check the neck straightness its all pretty easy stuff. If however your frets arnt level then that's a whole other thing and you need a small amount of experience to fix that (and the right tools). But even that is not too difficult.

[merciful-evans]

You know what i think you may have just answered my question and i missed it... I think thats whats up, the grooves in the new titanium nut all seem to be the same width and obviously the wound strings are thicker. It must be that they are getting stuck momentarily? or taking longer to shift the tension evenly. That is why i was using a toothpick to put a tiny bit of grease on the slots but if the groove is not wide enough especially on the low e than i guess that is not enough... Do i dare try to file the slot myself to make it a lil wider? or back to my luthier? He is an hour away which in the bay area means an all day excursion

 

 

I asked if you were using heavier (than 10-46) gauge strings. Thats the gauge I expect Gibson to fit as standard.

 

I just tried to examine my titanium nut to see if the slots were the same or graduated, but light is poor and my eyes aren't what they were. They should be different widths but slightly wider than the strings.

 

I dont think you will hurt much by filing the nut slots yourself. I think the main problem will be the hardness of the metal.

 

I used to be a miller in a machine shop. I always hated to machine titanium. Its extremely hard and resistant to being cut. So you will probably work up a sweat doing this because it will take some time. You will need to use files in good condition and expect to change them as they wear.

 

I dont have files like that & chances are you dont. I would approach this by using emery cloth (or emery paper) against a thin strip of steel such as a .025" feeler gauge. A narrow butter knife might do ok. A steel rule would be best of all. A 6" inch one should be cheap enough. It should be less that the thickness of the A and E slots. They are usually about .030" thick so should be ideal for those slots.

 

Get some medium to light emery. If the grade is too course it will probably jam in the slot. If its too fine it will take you a month ;)

 

Just be sure not to fold the cloth UNDER the rule, you dont want the slots any deeper. Just keep it taut against the SIDE of the rule. It should be easy to keep the cutting straight this way with a seesaw action. Keep a running check on the condition of the emery because you'll need to change to a fresh bit frequently.

 

Keep your A and E strings handy to try them in the slots as you go. Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

[merciful-evans]

You see this is exactly why we can never tell anyone exact specs...

 

So many people come on here and complain about buzzing strings etc... The thing is is that as you explained, your luthier did it in a way he thought was good, but wasn't right for you.. So how are Gibson able to know what each individuals playing style is and how they like it... This is why when you buy a guitar, if you want it to be comfortable for you, that really a player needs to learn how to set this stuff up themselves.. Non of it is that difficult and theres nothing wrong with the trial and error approach.

 

As long as the frets are ok and you can check the neck straightness its all pretty easy stuff. If however your frets arnt level then that's a whole other thing and you need a small amount of experience to fix that (and the right tools). But even that is not too difficult.

 

I've never tried to level frets. I have tried to abrade down the odd high one, but never followed it up with crowning. I do have some suitable tools but I find it more convenient to take it to the luthier I trust. I work 12 hours shifts and am busy during my resting days.

 

A friend of mine made a leveling tool and used it on his LP (copy). It was the lowest action and easiest to fret guitar I ever played! Man, I was seriously impressed I can tell you. I will retire in about 3 years. I will undertake some guitar projects then.

[Roach]

You see this is exactly why we can never tell anyone exact specs...

 

So many people come on here and complain about buzzing strings etc... The thing is is that as you explained, your luthier did it in a way he thought was good, but wasn't right for you.. So how are Gibson able to know what each individuals playing style is and how they like it... This is why when you buy a guitar, if you want it to be comfortable for you, that really a player needs to learn how to set this stuff up themselves.. Non of it is that difficult and theres nothing wrong with the trial and error approach.

 

As long as the frets are ok and you can check the neck straightness its all pretty easy stuff. If however your frets arnt level then that's a whole other thing and you need a small amount of experience to fix that (and the right tools). But even that is not too difficult.

 

 

 

 

you confuse me rabs... my luthier never saw the titanium nut. Also I do not understand how my style has anything to do with the strings being tight in the slot....??

 

and Merciful, i use 10 - 46 diaddario XL's

[Rabs]

you confuse me rabs... my luthier never saw the titanium nut. Also I do not understand how my style has anything to do with the strings being tight in the slot....??

 

and Merciful, i use 10 - 46 diaddario XL's

Well I was answering the OP more than anything...

 

And I was saying that when you get a new guitar you have to set it to your specs.. Like getting a new car, you have to set the seat and mirror positions and stuff.. Same with a guitar.. Gibson sort of set it in the middle... So if you want a lower action and you change the string gauge or whatever you have to set the guitar up accordingly.

 

The nut issue is however something else. Personally even though I have seen it reported on here hundreds of times ive never actually had this binding issue onn any of my Gibsons. And as for what you are describing.. It is a bit odd. Its almost sounds like what happens when you try and intonate a guitar that has a trem system. Its a right pain, every time you tune it, the trem moves and puts it all out.. Takes ages.

 

And if that's happening on a guitar without a trem.. Very odd. It almost sounds like the truss rod is loose... So every time you tune up the neck is moving.. Donno man.. Hard to tell without seeing it.

[merciful-evans]

 

And if that's happening on a guitar without a trem.. Very odd. It almost sounds like the truss rod is loose... So every time you tune up the neck is moving.. Donno man.. Hard to tell without seeing it.

 

 

It never once occurred to me about a loose truss rod?! Its a mystery all right.

[merciful-evans]

you confuse me rabs... my luthier never saw the titanium nut. Also I do not understand how my style has anything to do with the strings being tight in the slot....??

 

and Merciful, i use 10 - 46 diaddario XL's

 

Yeah he was answering my OP as he said.

 

 

Re 10-46: So the strings are just fine! That makes it seem less likely that they are binding in the nut. Not impossible though because it happens with regular nut on new Gibsons.

[Roach]

Well I was answering the OP more than anything...

 

 

 

 

Sorry everyone, wasnt trying to direct away from OP, my bad...

[merciful-evans]

Hey Roach did ya get anything sorted, or still struggling with the tuning?

[Roach]

Hey Roach did ya get anything sorted, or still struggling with the tuning?

 

 

 

hey thanks for asking... Nothing has changed yet... I was planning to go back to my luthier tech guy and have him do the measurements and make whatever changes it needs to resolve the problem. He has all the tools a luthier should have and also he only charges once per guitar for his setup so ill have him go through everything and readjust anything that needs it. Ill get it back working as good as it ever will. i am sure the nut was cut rather ruff with no filing, because the corners are fairly sharp. and its easy to see how the E and A strings would get caught up...