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about plugin version and MIDI mapping

#1 User is offline   more fire2 

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

Hello,

when trying the Deckadance plugin version in different hosts / DAW's I noticed there can be a problem with mapping certain parameters to MIDI controllers (unless I did something wrong of course).
This is due to:

- Deckadance having a lot of parameters (around 400 or so ?)
- Not all of these parameters are 'exposed' on the GUI (e.g the parameters for the playlist and the browser)

Usually there are two methods in hosts to 'learn' a VST parameter:
1. Moving an element (knob/slider) on the plugin GUI to 'notify' the host - this obviously doesn't work for the playlist and browser parameters because there are no dedicated GUI controls.
2. Displaying parameters in a generic/host UI list and learn from there.

Now as Deckadance has so many parameters it seems some hosts have difficulties displaying all of them using method 2 (as they only can display a certain amount of parameters).
I've noticed this problem so far in Sensomusic Usine and in Ableton Live.

Live seems to have a parameter limit here of 128. I've started a thread in the Live forum with no solving reply so far.
link
So so far I've found no way to learn the parameters for the playlist (e.g. Playlist Up/Down, Playlist Load A/B) to my MIDI controller from within Live as these parameters are beyond the 128 visible ones.

On the other hand Cockos REAPER for example has no problems with displaying all parameters and learning them.
Posted Image


While I think this is actually a flaw in the hosts (imo they should provide a way to learn all VST parameters, no matter if exposed on the GUI or not), I assume it's rather unlikely that the hosts devs will change this as it seems a rather unique situation (usually afaik there are GUI controls so method 1 works fine).

So my question is:
Any change to tackle this from within Deckadance plugin ?
My idea would be an additional column in the MIDI learn editor with a button saying "notify host" to emulate a 'fake' control touch (calling setParameterAutomated() ?, I'm diving a little in plugin dev in my spare time) for the parameters that are not accessable directly via Deckadance GUI so method 1 could be used here.
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#2 User is offline   TheMoroney 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 01:41 PM

View Postmore fire2, on 23 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Hello,

when trying the Deckadance plugin version in different hosts / DAW's I noticed there can be a problem with mapping certain parameters to MIDI controllers (unless I did something wrong of course).
This is due to:

- Deckadance having a lot of parameters (around 400 or so ?)
- Not all of these parameters are 'exposed' on the GUI (e.g the parameters for the playlist and the browser)

Usually there are two methods in hosts to 'learn' a VST parameter:
1. Moving an element (knob/slider) on the plugin GUI to 'notify' the host - this obviously doesn't work for the playlist and browser parameters because there are no dedicated GUI controls.
2. Displaying parameters in a generic/host UI list and learn from there.

Now as Deckadance has so many parameters it seems some hosts have difficulties displaying all of them using method 2 (as they only can display a certain amount of parameters).
I've noticed this problem so far in Sensomusic Usine and in Ableton Live.

Live seems to have a parameter limit here of 128. I've started a thread in the Live forum with no solving reply so far.
link
So so far I've found no way to learn the parameters for the playlist (e.g. Playlist Up/Down, Playlist Load A/B) to my MIDI controller from within Live as these parameters are beyond the 128 visible ones.

On the other hand Cockos REAPER for example has no problems with displaying all parameters and learning them.
Posted Image


While I think this is actually a flaw in the hosts (imo they should provide a way to learn all VST parameters, no matter if exposed on the GUI or not), I assume it's rather unlikely that the hosts devs will change this as it seems a rather unique situation (usually afaik there are GUI controls so method 1 works fine).

So my question is:
Any change to tackle this from within Deckadance plugin ?
My idea would be an additional column in the MIDI learn editor with a button saying "notify host" to emulate a 'fake' control touch (calling setParameterAutomated() ?, I'm diving a little in plugin dev in my spare time) for the parameters that are not accessable directly via Deckadance GUI so method 1 could be used here.

I have used deckadance for many years and I have never had this problem (granted I use it inside FL studio not Reaper). I will download a copy of reaper and see if I can help you figure this out. From my personal expierence though, the steps followed for adding use of a midi controller are the same as if you were just running deckadance without having it inside a VST host.
Author of the Numark DJ2GO script for Deckadance
Author of the Numark Orbit script for Deckadance
Author of the updated version of the script for the M-Audio Xponent
Deckadance user since 2014
FL Studio user since 2013
The Unofficial Numark and M-Audio Script writing person.
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#3 User is offline   more fire2 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 05:02 PM

Thanks for the reply and offer to help.

However, I think there's a misunderstanding here, it DOES work fine in Reaper (I just used that as example where there are no problems), I encountered the problem I described in Sensomusic Usine and Ableton Live so far (confirmed with Live by another user, see link in first post).

And it's not a general problem of getting a MIDI controller to work with the VST version (for the majority of parameters it works fine) but a combination of specific circumstances, as described above which make it seemingly impossible to map certain parameters.
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#4 User is offline   Luis Serrano 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 05:08 PM

View Postmore fire2, on 23 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Any change to tackle this from within Deckadance plugin ?
My idea would be an additional column in the MIDI learn editor with a button saying "notify host" to emulate a 'fake' control touch (calling setParameterAutomated() ?, I'm diving a little in plugin dev in my spare time) for the parameters that are not accessable directly via Deckadance GUI so method 1 could be used here.

I will investigate this method. To be honest I wasn't aware of this problem till your post. It's usually better to use the internal DD MIDI engine when connecting to remote controllers instead of using the host MIDI engine, but I understand that there are some situations where the latter could be handy.
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#5 User is offline   more fire2 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:08 PM

Thanks.

Using DD's MIDI engine does work, but the problem is, it 'captures' the controller, meaning it then can't be used anymore for controlling other things in the host.

Meanwhile I've found a workaround btw., that is using a sub-hoster which is turn hosts DD, so this ahem stupid parameter limit in Live can be overcome.
A little more clumsy but does the job.

If you nonetheless get around looking into this, give me a shout and I'll be happy to test.
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