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J-45 Vintage comes with compensated saddle?

#21 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 08:52 AM

View Postblindboygrunt, on 26 January 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

This interests me as I'd like to carve a saddle myself for the sake of saying i did so , but was worried about the compensated part ... I'm no soloist so I've wondered how much I care about a slight deviation at the twelfth fret


StewMac has everything you need. http://www.stewmac.com/ I ditched compensated saddles a while ago, until then I was obsessed with them, no need to be. Electric guitars are a different story.
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#22 User is offline   blindboygrunt 

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:52 AM

 Victory Pete, on 26 January 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

StewMac has everything you need. http://www.stewmac.com/ I ditched compensated saddles a while ago, until then I was obsessed with them, no need to be. Electric guitars are a different story.


Can you elaborate for the sake of a novice ?
Ta
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#23 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 01:45 PM

View Postblindboygrunt, on 26 January 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Can you elaborate for the sake of a novice ?
Ta


Sure, to do a saddle you may already have what you need. Calipers are nice to have but not always needed. You will need files and sanding blocks and some patience. If you are simply replicating a saddle you already have you are half way there. Thickness is important, StewMac does make preformed saddles for both Martin and Gibson. Then it is just a matter of tracing the old one and reshaping the new one. The top of the saddle needs to have a nice smooth round contour for proper string take off. I have some blanks here already if you want to send me your saddle.http://www.victorygu...itar/index.html
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#24 User is offline   QuestionMark 

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 04:01 PM

My opinion is a saddle does not count towards having to be a replicated item on a vintage reissue. It's a changeable item much like bridge pins are. If someone puts s compensated saddle on a 1965 Gibson to improve its intonation...no one thinks anything about it. Likewise one is on a new guitar or a new vintage reissue. A bridge is a major factor to replicate not a saddle. This issue is kinda ridiculous in my opinion, especially since compensated saddles are improve intonation not detract from it and can be inexpensivrly swapped in or out of any guitar.

Just my 2 cents.

QM aka Jazzman Jeff
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#25 User is offline   gfa 

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 04:18 PM

View PostQuestionMark, on 26 January 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

My opinion is a saddle does not count towards having to be a replicated item on a vintage reissue. It's a changeable item much like bridge pins are. If someone puts s compensated saddle on a 1965 Gibson to improve its intonation...no one thinks anything about it. Likewise one is on a new guitar or a new vintage reissue. A bridge is a major factor to replicate not a saddle. This issue is kinda ridiculous in my opinion, especially since compensated saddles are improve intonation not detract from it and can be inexpensivrly swapped in or out of any guitar.

Just my 2 cents.

QM aka Jazzman Jeff


And my $.02 - I don't give a hoot about authenticity, period correctness, etc. I bought the Vintage model because I liked the way it sounded. I had to have a new saddle made due to some bad setup work by a tech, and the new saddle is compensated.
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#26 User is offline   blindboygrunt 

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 02:53 AM

 Victory Pete, on 26 January 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Sure, to do a saddle you may already have what you need. Calipers are nice to have but not always needed. You will need files and sanding blocks and some patience. If you are simply replicating a saddle you already have you are half way there. Thickness is important, StewMac does make preformed saddles for both Martin and Gibson. Then it is just a matter of tracing the old one and reshaping the new one. The top of the saddle needs to have a nice smooth round contour for proper string take off. I have some blanks here already if you want to send me your saddle.http://www.victorygu...itar/index.html


Thanks pete

Kind offer

The question was more about the need vs no need for compensating a saddle .
Do you reckon if I took the compensated saddle I have out of the guitar and carved myself a straight saddle then I'd notice no difference in intonation ?
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#27 User is offline   QuestionMark 

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:17 AM

It would possibly be noticeable on some notes played far up the neck on the string that the saddle compensates for. Or on chords played up the neck. However, because most guitar's do not have a compensated saddle, you may have already gotten used to the intonation up the neck being slightly off without one and not notice, thinking it's normal.

If only chords are played in a first position, likely no one would ever notice.

But, the fretboard spacing with our s compensated saddle is always off on every guitar due to mathematics of intonation...and, a compensated saddle tries to adjust that.

Hope this makes sense.

QM aka Jazzman Jeff
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#28 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 01:44 PM

View Postblindboygrunt, on 27 January 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

Thanks pete

Kind offer

The question was more about the need vs no need for compensating a saddle .
Do you reckon if I took the compensated saddle I have out of the guitar and carved myself a straight saddle then I'd notice no difference in intonation ?


I have noticed no discernible difference. I have yet to check intonation with my Peterson tuner and see that the compensated saddle was intonating correctly, they are usually off just like the good ole straight variety. If they were adjustable like on a electric then it would be a different story.
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#29 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 01:58 PM

BTW, just for giggles, here is my understanding of what intonation is all about. If you look at a classical saddle it is usually straight across with no angle. This is because all the classical strings have relatively the same tension and flexibility. Metal strings on the other hand have a varying amount of stiffness to its string that is proportional to its diameter and whether it is plain or wrapped. If you notice the saddle on a properly intonated electric each string's saddle is stepped up shortening its length, this stepping is fairly consistent as you go to each next smaller string, except when you get to the plain strings, then it steps back down a bit but the next small plain string will step back up. This is because plain strings and wound strings have different elasticity. The small E string is the only one that is at the actual correct length. The length from nut to 12th fret should be exactly the length from 12th fret to the high E's saddle, maybe a bit longer. All other strings have to have this length extended because as the strings get bigger their elasticity becomes less. Essentially there is a dead spot where the string passes over the saddle that doesn't actually vibrate right at the contact point. it actually vibrates up the length of the string a bit. This all occurred to me when I was working at a transmission tower and I was "playing" the huge string that is one of the guy wires. I noticed about 10 feet of the string at its attachment point was absolutely rigid and would not vibrate. Further up the wire I could see and feel the string actually vibrating. BTW, the sound of the laser guns in Star Wars is these wires being struck with something. I swear they sound exactly like this.

PS String height is also a factor in this compensation, the more you have to push a string down the sharper it wants to be.
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#30 User is offline   Pete'67 

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 11:04 AM

Thanks to All for your comments.

I ordered a couple of unbleached bone blanks. Would like trying to shape an uncompensated one by myself.

How does the top of yours look like? Straight or angled?

Posted Image
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#31 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 01:15 PM

View PostPete, on 18 March 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Thanks to All for your comments.

I ordered a couple of unbleached bone blanks. Would like trying to shape an uncompensated one by myself.

How does the top of yours look like? Straight or angled?angled

Posted Image


Not sure what you mean?
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#32 User is offline   Pete'67 

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 01:51 PM

If you mark the point of contact for each string are they all in the middle of saddle (looking at the saddle from the top) or is the low E point of contact more far away from the sound hole whereas the high E is closest?
Sorry, I cannot describe it more clear. Even in German it would not be so easy. :-)

I'm talking about the red line.

Posted Image
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#33 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:44 AM

View PostPete, on 18 March 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

If you mark the point of contact for each string are they all in the middle of saddle (looking at the saddle from the top) or is the low E point of contact more far away from the sound hole whereas the high E is closest?
Sorry, I cannot describe it more clear. Even in German it would not be so easy. :-)

I'm talking about the red line.

Posted Image


Mine are all straight now with no angles (compensation).
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#34 User is offline   Pete'67 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:00 AM

View PostVictory Pete, on 19 March 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

Mine are all straight now with no angles (compensation).


Great. Thanks a lot Pete!
So I'll start sanding now. Will post pictures once it's done.
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#35 User is offline   Victory Pete 

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:21 AM

View PostPete, on 19 March 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Great. Thanks a lot Pete!
So I'll start sanding now. Will post pictures once it's done.



Good luck Pete, hopefully you will be victorious.




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