Gibson Guitar Board: Do Les Pauls Have Improving Tone With Age - Gibson Guitar Board

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Do Les Pauls Have Improving Tone With Age 2015 Les Paul Classic update

#41 User is offline   Searcy 

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 05:46 PM

 capmaster, on 30 January 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

[biggrin] I prefer carrots quartersawn. [woot]


Try laminating them. celery \carrot \celery \carrot \celery
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#42 User is offline   capmaster 

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 05:52 PM

View PostSearcy, on 30 January 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

Try laminating them. celery \carrot \celery \carrot \celery

Do you think a roux might work for glueing the layers? [rolleyes]
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#43 User is offline   Dennis G 

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:42 PM

View Postbadbluesplayer, on 29 January 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

No, like this -.com/watch?v=eU1ks8mL9OM[/media]

While I'll agree to a point (EC could have been playing a LP, 335 or SG or a Strat if you close your eyes) My point (n post #7?) was the different characteristics of the basic guitar and its' controls. No harm, no foul. I hear ya.

Edit: I think it's post #17, not 7, in any event...
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#44 User is offline   Sabredog 

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 02:14 AM

View Postpippy, on 30 January 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'm not quite sure I'm following your train of thought, Sabredog; are you saying you have seen a large number of guitars which have necks shaped like a banana?
I do know the effect you are describing happens when you slice a carrot lengthways. Most annoying.

Pip.



I'm saying that wood requires time to equilibrate to its lowest energy point. The kiln drying process helps to fix wood so that it doesn't warp or change so the microscopic structure is essentially locked in to its shape, but when you remove wood or change the shape of the wood, it now starts its equilibration process again the remaining woodgrain is missing some of the nearby grain structures that were holding it in place.

I looked on some boatbuilding sites they complain about ripping long boards on a table saw and the wood grains have internal stress release and the board ends up being bowed.

It is very subtle, since not much wood was removed from the neck blank, but the wood requires some more time before it finds a shape that is more permanant and strong and resists applied stresses.

I've seen it in person with kiln dried oak you make a 1 x 4,x 3' long piece cut from a piece of perfect 1 x 8 x 3' and one of the pieces becomes almost unusable with curvature as it settles into its new equilibrium. You can usually see extra tight grain patterns where the warping is occurring and it can take many days maybe months for the piece to settle into its final lowest energy state.
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#45 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:09 AM

View Postcapmaster, on 30 January 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

[biggrin] I prefer carrots quartersawn. [woot]

I prefer them finely-sliced into batons with a nice extra-virgin olive oil, white wine vinegar, wholegrain-mustard and shallot vinaigrette, seasoned with S. & Pepp.

Ah, yes. Seasoning. I knew there was something I wanted to add;
As it happens I have actually done a bit of cabinetmaking myself so I understand the problem of cutting and shaping insufficiently seasoned wood (*) but I've never once heard of a Gibson which had a neck bowed like a banana for the reasons suggested earlier. If, however, anyone has proof that such a neck-bow on a Gibson has been caused by badly seasoned wood I'd be most intrigued to read it. As, I'm sure, would Gibson themselves. Pics would be wonderful ! ! !

Pip.

EDIT :
(*) I don't have specific snaps of things I've made but the media unit seen in the background is one case in point. It's 80" wide and 16" deep and the 5 main horizontal planks were flat-bed table-sawn from sheets of 8' x 4' pine; some of which were evidently poorly seasoned/stored. Caused me quite a few moments of head-scratching.

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If I, as a rank amateur, can find a way to sort out this timber/lumber crap then I'm absolutely 100% sure Gibson are WAY ahead of me on the matter in hand.
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#46 User is offline   IanHenry 

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:47 AM

11lbs is a heavy guitar, especially as the Gibson web site says "9 hole weight relief": http://www.gibson.co...ul-Classic.aspx My 2014 Traditional is solid bodied and weighs in at 9lbs which I thought was heavy (yes I was sad enough to weigh it).
I'm not so sure a solid bodied electric guitar will change very much, but one thing is certain, a poor sounding one will always be bad, it will never become a good guitar and a good one will always be good.


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#47 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:58 AM

View PostSabredog, on 31 January 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:

I'm saying that wood requires time to equilibrate to its lowest energy point. The kiln drying process helps to fix wood so that it doesn't warp or change so the microscopic structure is essentially locked in to its shape, but when you remove wood or change the shape of the wood, it now starts its equilibration process again the remaining woodgrain is missing some of the nearby grain structures that were holding it in place.

I looked on some boatbuilding sites they complain about ripping long boards on a table saw and the wood grains have internal stress release and the board ends up being bowed.

It is very subtle, since not much wood was removed from the neck blank, but the wood requires some more time before it finds a shape that is more permanant and strong and resists applied stresses.

I've seen it in person with kiln dried oak you make a 1 x 4,x 3' long piece cut from a piece of perfect 1 x 8 x 3' and one of the pieces becomes almost unusable with curvature as it settles into its new equilibrium. You can usually see extra tight grain patterns where the warping is occurring and it can take many days maybe months for the piece to settle into its final lowest energy state.


Minutiae kills.

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#48 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 11:56 AM

View PostDennis G, on 30 January 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

While I'll agree to a point...my point...was the different characteristics of the basic guitar and its' controls...

+1.

I couldn't possibly agree more. A full exploration of all the tones available from a LP (SG/335/etc...etc...) - and especially with the amp set 'clean' - is a very rewarding, oft-times surprising, undertaking. The variety of sounds with the R/T switch in the middle position is extraordinary. Roll-off the volume of one p'up; roll-back the tone on the other; rinse and repeat.

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#49 User is offline   MichaelT 

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:47 PM

I'm not sure if my 1981 V tone has improved in the years since it was created and it has the curly maple top and mahogany body. I can say that within the three years I bought it, I certainly sounded better playing it and I was comfortable with it and all the nuances of the guitar since it was in my hands for hours a day every day. I'd think there may be some noticeable differences over the years but I don't think it's significant. I think it's the player matching his/herself to the guitar.
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#50 User is offline   Karloff 

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:55 PM

yes they do. but as your hearing gets worse it all balances out.
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#51 User is offline   NHTom 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:07 PM

Hmmmm..........interesting topic..........

My thoughts.......for what that's worth......lol.


If you take a brand new guitar.......install it in some sort of plucking machine and analyze the "tone", then put it in a vault for two years, take it out and use the same machine.............nope......no noticeable change in tone.

If you take the same guitar and play it for those two years, then YES, for sure! Why? IN MY OPINION, it comes down to how you interact with that guitar. As the back of the neck wears slightly to that glorious broken in smoothness so you can move around the fretboard with ease.........as you learn just where that sweet spot for rolling back the volume knob to clean it up is.........as you've tweaked your setup so that it plays at it's best and you attack it with confidence..........all those things will sound better. Did the guitar get better? I doubt it......... Did your bond with the guitar get better allowing you to get the best out of it? I think so.

On the scientific side of things...........Yes, with finishes there is a difference between "dry" and "fully cured"......could that make a difference? Not to my crappy ears, but maybe to someone or to a machine. Moisture content over time? Again, not to my ears, but maybe in THEORY.

To me, you can have the best pair of shoes in the world made just for you, but until you get them broken in, they won't be as comfortable........same with guitars.

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#52 User is offline   SmokeyGhost 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:57 PM

Nope. The science says it all for me.

"The raw acoustics of the electric guitar aren't quite as interesting as the acoustic guitars (although you may be interested in Dan Russell's work); the body is essentially a good-looking hunk of wood to counterbalance the weight of the neck and to keep the strings vibrating a longer time. (Although excellent for rock 'n' roll, lead playing, or burning and inserting into your amplifier.)"


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#53 User is online   Farnsbarns 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:05 PM

I read the quote and followed the link but i found no science whatsoever. :(
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#54 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:39 PM

From the page in the link post #52

"The raw acoustics of the electric guitar aren't quite as interesting as the acoustic guitars..."

Clearly the author, Ra Inta (UNSW), should hang here more often...

Pip.

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#55 User is offline   MichaelT 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:44 PM

View PostKarloff, on 08 March 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

yes they do. but as your hearing gets worse it all balances out.


Huh? What did you say? Oh, yes, that's for sure! Hearing is definitely getting worse.
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#56 User is offline   SmokeyGhost 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:17 PM

I will be very interested to hear the improvement in tone as this little number ages.


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#57 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:33 PM

View PostSmokeyGhost, on 09 March 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I will be very interested to hear the improvement in tone as this little number ages.

I will be very interested to see what's left after the invertebrates hear the dinner-gong...

Pip.
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#58 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

Reminds me of this wooden toilet seat I bought many years ago. Sure it was well above what I needed, but with store credits and whatnot I thought what the heck, this is the holy grail, being made in the USA and such...and so I pulled the trigger. After the initial excitement of the unboxing (see my YouTube channel), I gotta say I was underwhelmed - despite the deep lustrous beauty of the walnut stain the setup was lousy (I prefer high action) and I couldn't get comfortable (geometry M?) - I figured the humidity maybe was also a factor.

Anyway, long story short, after some expert tweaking and several years of the grain opening up suddenly we connected like never before...great bottom end...like butter! It had proven itself as my Number 2, but my wife declared that from her perspective it was a natural Number 1, and the initial cost has long been forgotten with some folks now considering these to be nearly vintage! Happy days.
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#59 User is offline   bigtim 

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:01 PM

This is about the most awesome review of something I have read in a long time!!!



View Post'Scales, on 10 March 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

Reminds me of this wooden toilet seat I bought many years ago. Sure it was well above what I needed, but with store credits and whatnot I thought what the heck, this is the holy grail, being made in the USA and such...and so I pulled the trigger. After the initial excitement of the unboxing (see my YouTube channel), I gotta say I was underwhelmed - despite the deep lustrous beauty of the walnut stain the setup was lousy (I prefer high action) and I couldn't get comfortable (geometry M?) - I figured the humidity maybe was also a factor.

Anyway, long story short, after some expert tweaking and several years of the grain opening up suddenly we connected like never before...great bottom end...like butter! It had proven itself as my Number 2, but my wife declared that from her perspective it was a natural Number 1, and the initial cost has long been forgotten with some folks now considering these to be nearly vintage! Happy days.

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#60 User is offline   Roach 

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 08:06 AM

i want to believe time does change tone, based on my knowledge of drums, woods, and violins. But I didnt see anyone mention that not only does your playing probably have a great deal to do with it, but the gear we play through is not made the same over the years... That would also include the gear we use to record with. Time changes the tones we want to get so as your taste changes it may seem the guitar tone is changing when it isn't.
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