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Gibson AJ luithers choice


billychum

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Posted this on the UMGF and thought I wood post here as well.

 

Thinking about getting an AJ luithers choice and I'm wondering if any of you may have any thoughts or experience about how the brazilian ($5000.00-$6000.00) compares to some of the other woods (brazilian subsitutes $3000.00ish) that they are being made from. Also would be interested in comments concerning playability.

 

Thanks for any help

Billy <><

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Brazilian, to me anyway, has become more of a collector's tonewood than a viable choice for a player. With the prices of Brazilian AJ's well over $5000., the risk of scratching or possibly denting such an expensive instrument makes them too valuable for me to enjoy. Don't get me wrong....I have played some wonderful sounding Brazilian Gibsons...several were AJs...and was very impressed with the sound. But I have also been equally impressed with Madagascar Rosewood, Indian Rosewood, and Koa AJs as well. In the end, there are some great AJ's....whether they are Brazilian or some other less valuable tonewood...and there are some average AJ's in the same variety. If you are looking for investment grade go for the Brazilian. If you simply want a great sounding AJ for a lot less money I would steer toward the current Madagascar versions.

 

Just my $.02

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As a collector, I have acquired a good number of Brazilian Rosewood guitars and they sound great because of their ages. I have found among the new guitars I have purchased and played in that Indian Rosewood actually comes along faster and will get valuable assistance from nearby subwoofers etc.

 

Brazilian Rosewood is about as hard as iron, and it can take a long while to open up and resonate - sometimes as much as 15 years or even more. I have not found that artificial assistance (subwoofers etc.) has any impact on Brazilian - you have to play it in and that takes a big investment of time.

 

I am 44 now. I buy Indian because it opens up within five years. I suppose my question for you, then, is how much time do you have?

 

I feel the biggest tell-tale sign with Brazilian comes from Martin. They list a good number of Brazilian signature models on their website - yet I can't find a single signature player who actually gets on stage or records with these Brazilian masterpieces. On the other hand, many of the signature model players who have Indian Rosewood guitars (John Mayer, perhaps most notably) are gigging with the instruments daily.

 

Brazilian - Museum

Indian - Stage

Madagascar - House

 

my .02

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The substitutes I'm guessing such as Madagascar, I think they also do a coca bola or some such?

 

Well anyway, I think if you know the sound of Brazilian, and you want the sound of Brazilian. Than buy the Brazilian. And don't worry about what the 'collectors' say. Sure it may look pretty, and may be an endangered species. Take a high quality digital picture of it and you will be able to see the grain more clearly in the picture. The picture will theoretically be around for thousands of years if you keep it securely backed up on several disks. The wood will decay over time and most like turn to dust. If Brazilian is used on guitars, than there is still some to be had. Or I should say that if it was so endangered that it should only be in a museum, then guitar makers should not be able to get the stuff period. Well I'll to the point. If you want to donate a Brazilian piece of art to the museum just so people can see some Brazilian rosewood, or if you want to hang it on the wall so you can look at a Brazilian rosewood guitar for maybe 200-300 years... than I'd say thats a perfectly valid move based on one's preference. But if Brazilian gives a guitar a unique sound character that you cant get from any other wood, and if you really want that sound in your music, than that music is a piece of art, just like the Brazilian on display at the museum. Besides, Gibson has money, let them build an acoustic from the finest piece of Brazilian they have, and they can donate it to the museum. If I ever bought a Brazilian acoustic, for lets say maybe $6000, then although I would be careful with it, I would not cry if I put a ding in it. Most importantly though, I'd play it like a fanatic. [-X [-X/ But probably only in the studio;-o.

 

I think if I wanted an investment, a Gibson made with Brazilian would be very good if you could keep it in a temperature humidity controlled environment. But sound comes first in my book. Being rich is ok, but it cant buy happiness. But than again, if you can buy the Brazilian for it's sound quality, than your not quite poor:-k

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Well, at this point you would be buying the Brazzy used since Gibson won't build you a new one. They stopped using Brazzy in 2003; and won't budge on that position. I've got an Left Handed AJ luthier's choice in Mad rosewood built in 2007, and it's close tonewise to Brazzy.

 

If I could have, I would have gotten the Brazzy for collectability/resale/tone, but there's nothing wrong with Mad either.

 

2007 AJ Mad Rosewood

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I've got a special edition J-45 in braz/adi. She sings. Rich overtones. The sustain is breathtaking. I don't have any way of knowing how big a part the type of rosewood plays in her exceptional tone, but this example beats any madagascar r/w I've played. There is a cocobolo/adi AJ at Willcutt that comes close.

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Brazilian - Museum

Indian - Stage

Madagascar - House

 

I just wanted to put in a vote on the other side. I have a Braz AJ that I'm a little extra careful with' date=' not because of the price -- after all, $6K is not all [i']that[/i] much for an outstanding acoustic guitar these days -- but because of it can't be replaced. (It's not just "a" Braz AJ. Once, when Ren was asked -- not by me -- which guitar was his favorite among all those they've built, he answered "Bob's AJ". I have witnesses!) For example, it doesn't go to open mics. But, for another example, it did go to both Gibson Homecomings, where it sat out on a guitar stand so that people could pick it up and play it. Guitars are for playing and enjoying, not putting in a display case and admiring.

 

As for not seeing many Braz or Mad guitars on stage, that's partly because road guitars get used up and are all-too-frequently stolen, and partly because most venues' sound systems are not good enough to justify using a really good guitar on stage. But, if you go to performances by great guitarists in small venues with excellent sound systems -- or no sound system at all (e.g., house concerts and Eric Schoenberg's shop) -- you'll see plenty of 'em.

 

OTOH, I completely agree that great-sounding AJs come in lots of different tone woods. In particular, I've heard some EIR AJs that I think sound way better than most Braz and Mad AJs, and there was one Koa AJ I'd rank in the top three AJs I've played. You've got to play them and find which specific AJ is the one -- or which AJs are the ones :P -- for you, rather than making a selection based on the species of wood used for the back and sides.

 

Unless, of course, you're buying it as an investment, in which case you should just buy Braz. Preferably one that doesn't sound all that great. :)

 

-- Bob R

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You know.....for Brazillian Rosewood being endangered and not to be logged anymore, I saw a LOT of Brazillian Rosewood guitars at this year's Healdsburg Guitar festival........hmmm where is it coming from? If you look at the old Martins Pre 1968 I think, the brazillian has very straight grain. Beautiful. The stuff that luthiers are using now, is often coming from the Stumps that were left in the ground when the original trees were logged. This stuff has a lot of movement in the grain, sworls, curves, and as an architect, I know that that kind of grain, can crack easily over time no matter how dry and seasoned it is. It is just the nature of that type of grain. So, a lot of people who are buying stump wood brazillian, may be in for a surprise some day. I have an old washburn parlor, and it has beautiful straight brazillian rosewood, and there are cracks in the back along the grain. This guitar was manufactured around 1900 and is light as a feather, the sides and top are crack free, but even the straight grain Brazillian can crack, and I agree with Balcorner, I think Brazillian is just for bragging rights now, it does take a long time to open up and there are many other woods which will give a more immediate warming of tone over the short term....

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