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Gibson Les Paul R8 Vintage Lemon 50 Anniversary Japanese Edition

#1 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:16 AM

Hi to all Gibson Les Paul enthusiast.
I am hoping that I can find additional information or be advised on the following Gibson Les Paul 1958 Vintage Lemon 50 Year Anniversary Japanese Edition Custom Shop
Currently I am looking at purchasing the above axe off a private seller, but I am having a lot of trouble trying to find any history of this addition from Gibson or on line. The serial Number has only Five digits starting with 8 last number in 3 Looking for help [confused]
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#2 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 04:05 AM

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Let's start with the serial number;
The serial number on Historics (and nowadays the True Historics) is different from the usual Gibson practice.

The Short Answer!.
X YZZZ = the serial number;
X = year of original instrument being re-issued. This works for guitars from 1952-1960; i.e. 4 indicates 1954 reissue; 8 indicates 1958 reissue etc...
Y = year of manufacture. There can be some confusion here as serial numbers are replicated; a 3 might mean 1993 but it might also mean 2003 or 2013 (see below).
ZZZ = number of individual instrument in that year's run.

The Long Answer!
The four-digit section. The first digit here on the R-I's is the actual year of manufacture and the last 3 (or sometimes 4) digits are the number of the re-issue in that year's run.
This can cause a bit of confusion as a '59 R-I made in 1993 can have the same serial number as a '59 R-I made in 2003 or 2013 but differences in the construction of R-I's changed so much over the years it's quite a simple matter to work out in which decade any one guitar was made. Also the guitars post 2001 (I believe) should have a certificate of authenticity which will be dated. Hence if we take 9 3131 as an example we get that it's a re-issue of a 1959 guitar made in either 1993 (or possibly 2003 / 2013), and was the 131st '59 made in this year.

As far as the actual guitar in question goes;
Well, there have been a great many LPR-I's made in small batches for special-order customers/dealerships - especially for the likes of Yamano in Japan. The info on these guitars, AFAIK, is never divulged by Gibson themselves - the guitars are not available anywhere else on the planet so the instruments are never advertised on the official Gibson site - and we in the west hardly ever see any of these guitars as they tend to stay in Japan. Any info you might be able to track down will probably be posted by an owner rather than an official source. Asking the seller if the guitar comes with any documentation / spec sheet would be the easiest way to find out any specific info.
Normally we would say 'post some pictures and we can offer more help' but in this case I don't really see what more we could tell you.

FWIW I think I am right in saying (it came from a good source!) that some of the Japanese dealers were able to hand-select timbers for the production of their runs and the Yamano guitars in particular have a certain reputation amongst a segment of LP owners for being of the highest quality.

If you send the serial number to Gibson Customer Services they might be able to confirm more details such as for which dealership the guitar was made. Their details can be found here;
http://www.gibson.com/Support.aspx

Best of luck and if you get it we'd love to see some snaps!

Pip.
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#3 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:22 AM

View Postpippy, on 17 February 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Let's start with the serial number;
The serial number on Historics (and nowadays the True Historics) is different from the usual Gibson practice.

The Short Answer!.
X YZZZ = the serial number;
X = year of original instrument being re-issued. This works for guitars from 1952-1960; i.e. 4 indicates 1954 reissue; 8 indicates 1958 reissue etc...
Y = year of manufacture. There can be some confusion here as serial numbers are replicated; a 3 might mean 1993 but it might also mean 2003 or 2013 (see below).
ZZZ = number of individual instrument in that year's run.

The Long Answer!
The four-digit section. The first digit here on the R-I's is the actual year of manufacture and the last 3 (or sometimes 4) digits are the number of the re-issue in that year's run.
This can cause a bit of confusion as a '59 R-I made in 1993 can have the same serial number as a '59 R-I made in 2003 or 2013 but differences in the construction of R-I's changed so much over the years it's quite a simple matter to work out in which decade any one guitar was made. Also the guitars post 2001 (I believe) should have a certificate of authenticity which will be dated. Hence if we take 9 3131 as an example we get that it's a re-issue of a 1959 guitar made in either 1993 (or possibly 2003 / 2013), and was the 131st '59 made in this year.

As far as the actual guitar in question goes;
Well, there have been a great many LPR-I's made in small batches for special-order customers/dealerships - especially for the likes of Yamano in Japan. The info on these guitars, AFAIK, is never divulged by Gibson themselves - the guitars are not available anywhere else on the planet so the instruments are never advertised on the official Gibson site - and we in the west hardly ever see any of these guitars as they tend to stay in Japan. Any info you might be able to track down will probably be posted by an owner rather than an official source. Asking the seller if the guitar comes with any documentation / spec sheet would be the easiest way to find out any specific info.
Normally we would say 'post some pictures and we can offer more help' but in this case I don't really see what more we could tell you.

FWIW I think I am right in saying (it came from a good source!) that some of the Japanese dealers were able to hand-select timbers for the production of their runs and the Yamano guitars in particular have a certain reputation amongst a segment of LP owners for being of the highest quality.

If you send the serial number to Gibson Customer Services they might be able to confirm more details such as for which dealership the guitar was made. Their details can be found here;
http://www.gibson.com/Support.aspx

Best of luck and if you get it we'd love to see some snaps!

Pip.



Many thanks for the valuable information, Yes there is the usual Gibson certificates showing authenticity. The serial number does match the documentation, but that can be copy if you know what I mean.
What do you think

Attached File(s)

  • Attached File  R8.pdf (107.03K)
    Number of downloads: 22

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#4 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:36 AM

Hmm...

Do you have any other pictures? There's nothing much there to go on with 100% certainty but, for one thing, the pick-guard is absolutely NOT correct for a '58 R-I. There are a few other things which set off alarm bells. Lots of stuff can be swapped-out easily, of course, so pictures of the peghead - front AND rear - and the frets/binding would be good but I have to say my first impressions are that it's a fake.

Pip.
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#5 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:08 AM

View Postpippy, on 17 February 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

Hmm...

Do you have any other pictures? There's nothing much there to go on with 100% certainty but, for one thing, the pick-guard is absolutely NOT correct for a '58 R-I. There are a few other things which set off alarm bells. Lots of stuff can be swapped-out easily, of course, so pictures of the peghead - front AND rear - and the frets/binding would be good but I have to say my first impressions are that it's a fake.

Pip.


Hi Pip
here are some more pic's to look at 2008 manufacture for the R8

Attached File(s)

  • Attached File  R86.pdf (134.8K)
    Number of downloads: 17
  • Attached File  R84.pdf (191.25K)
    Number of downloads: 14

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#6 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:18 AM

View Postblueyepaul, on 17 February 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Hi Pip
here are some more pic's to look at 2008 manufacture for the R8



Hi PIP,
In one of the pic's that I cannot load due to file there is the 50th Anniversary pick board that you mention.

Check it out
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#7 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:25 AM

Hi again, Blueyepaul.

That link to the eBay page changes things completely.
The reservations I had from viewing the first snap I saw are all explained from having seen the rest of the images.

Always with the caveat that I've never held the guitar in person I'd say without doubt it's the real deal.

Pip.
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#8 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:31 AM

View Postpippy, on 17 February 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

Hi again, Blueyepaul.

That link to the eBay page changes things completely.
The queries I had from viewing the first snap I saw are explained from having seen the rest of the images.

Always with the caveat that I've never held the guitar in person I'd say without doubt it's the real deal.

Pip.


Hey PIP

Thanks mate, I always like to get a second opinion from a person in the know. I am new to this plus it is a hefty price.
Once again cheers =D> :rolleyes:
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#9 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:01 AM

No Probs, Happy if I was of any help.

The first image posted looked like it was trying to hide most of the tell-tale signs of a fake - which is how fakers usually show their products - plus the 'guard (as mentioned) was completely wrong but the original 'guard was still in the case so that answered that doubt (a Japanese collector wouldn't have fitted a wrong p'guard). My other concerns were more down to a few details not seen, deliberately I thought, in the first snap - and the quality of the pics themselves - but the rest of the images covered those fully.

The price IS, as you know, on the hefty side - more expensive than when it was new 10 years ago in fact - but if the seller thinks the market will bite at the asking price then that's his business.

Good luck if you go for it!

Pip.
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#10 User is offline   Farnsbarns 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:31 PM

Hold on a sec....

The discription on eBay says it's a true historic. I believe it's a 2008 made guitar and cannot be a true historic. It's an older historic reissue. This makes a big difference to the value.
I'm not drunk, you're blurry.

Farns
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#11 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:44 PM

View PostFarnsbarns, on 17 February 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Hold on a sec....

The description on eBay says it's a true historic. I believe it's a 2008 made guitar and cannot be a true historic. It's an older historic reissue. This makes a big difference to the value.

Well I know what you mean, Farns, but on this occasion I think it's a case of "Yes and No".

Yes inasmuch as it ISN'T a "True Historic" as these have only just been 'invented' and the molecular level stuff I read them say in the descrip. is obviously erroneous but...
No because these ARE very limited run guitars and they are worth what the market will pay for a limited-run Japanese-market special-edition '58 LP in a tasteful 'burst.

The OP has already mentioned that he knows it to be a 2008 and he also already knows the asking price is above what it would have cost to buy new.
I doubt (from what I've read here) that the OP is overly concerned about what differentiates a 2008 Historic from a 2016 / 2017 True Historic. The guitar will sell solely on the merits it posesses and displays rather than the minutiae known to those with sufficient OCD to observe current attentions to detail.

I believe the OP's only concern was that it was a genuine Gibson 1958 LP re-issue and was part of a limited production run made specifically for the Japanese Market - and it is.

Caveat Emptor rules of course - as it always will.

Pip.
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#12 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:21 PM

[quote name='pippy' timestamp='1487375087' post='1835938']
Well I know what you mean, Farns, but on this occasion I think it's a case of "Yes and No".

Yes inasmuch as it ISN'T a "True Historic" as these have only just been 'invented' and the molecular level stuff I read them say in the descrip. is obviously erroneous but...
No because these ARE very limited run guitars and they are worth what the market will pay for a limited-run Japanese-market special-edition '58 LP in a tasteful 'burst.

The OP has already mentioned that he knows it to be a 2008 and he also already knows the asking price is above what it would have cost to buy new.
I doubt (from what I've read here) that the OP is overly concerned about what differentiates a 2008 Historic from a 2016 / 2017 True Historic. The guitar will sell solely on the merits it posesses and displays rather than the minutiae known to those with sufficient OCD to observe current attentions to detail.

I believe the OP's only concern was that it was a genuine Gibson 1958 LP re-issue and was part of a limited production run made specifically for the Japanese Market - and it is.

Caveat Emptor rules of course - as it always will.

Pip.
[/quote

Ooo I hope I haven't created a stire with this article. :unsure:
I just wanted to make sure this R8 was made in 2008 for the Japanese market and is not a fake. There is very little information out there to seek and read, on the other hand there are some nice axes out there, but the problem is buying from out side Australia that comes with a lot of unknown's. Its always my belief that you have to feel - play and examine before you purchase on line. There is nothing worse then receiving and fake, blowed neck or other issues that would blow your valve through the roof. [cursing] It is very refreshing that a person in need can seek information from a forum where individuals can help there fellow brothers in need from more knowledgeable people [thumbup]
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#13 User is offline   Farnsbarns 

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:56 AM

View Postblueyepaul, on 17 February 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:



Ooo I hope I haven't created a stire with this article. :unsure:





You most certainly haven't. Not even slightly.
Pippy and I are great friends and he is by far the Les Paul expert.
I'm not drunk, you're blurry.

Farns
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#14 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:01 AM

View PostFarnsbarns, on 18 February 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

You most certainly haven't. Not even slightly.
Pippy and I are great friends and he is by far the Les Paul expert.

Flattery will get you nowhere a few beers.

Pip.
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#15 User is offline   blueyepaul 

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:14 AM

View PostFarnsbarns, on 18 February 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

You most certainly haven't. Not even slightly.
Pippy and I are great friends and he is by far the Les Paul expert.


Thanks =D> [rolleyes]
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