Gibson Guitar Board: Hummingbird Vintage and Hummingbird TV - Gibson Guitar Board

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Hummingbird Vintage and Hummingbird TV Sound clip comparison

#1 User is offline   nid2007 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:25 AM

Here is my a/b comparison of a 2012 Hummingbird TV (unboxed on 2/11/17) and a 2016 Hummingbird Vintage (known to some here as Sal’s Hummingbird Vintage).

First, I have to point out that these are both great guitars (and I am not just saying that because I will be letting one go to a new home). I can’t imagine that anyone looking for a square shoulder Gibson hog could do better than one of these 2. I’m not going to comment on the tone, sound, volume etc. just yet, I will let the clips speak to that.

Settings: Both guitars are strung with D'Addario EJ19 Phosphor Bronze Bluegrass Light Top/Medium Bottom strings. The TV has had those strings on it since day 1. The Vintage was restrung just 2 days ago. I played them in to the point where they stay in tune just fine. 2 days, however, is not a lot of time for these strings and the guitar did make a long trip from NJ to Maryland—it may have a case of the bends. That is a big “may” though, as it sounds great and plays great right now, but a more fair test perhaps would have been to restring both guitars at the same time.

One other lab setting I should note is that I have never recorded anything to post before, and I really don’t know what I am doing. I tried to do everything the same on both samples, but I was definitely a little looser by the time I did the TV recording than I was on the Vintage recording. They were both rushed due interference from my dogs and the need to start my morning commute.

I used the iphone music memos app and then uploaded to Soundcloud.

https://soundcloud.c...07/vintage-2016

https://soundcloud.c...07/true-vintage

http://s103.photobuc...622C6.jpg.html]Posted Image
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Nid2007

'44 LG-2 (banner logo); 2012 Hummingbird TV; 2001 Songbird Deluxe (Koa back and sides); 2011 Huss and Dalton Crossroads DS; CA Cargo.

"...and a thousand compromises don't add up to a win."
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#2 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:34 AM

Honestly, I don't see how you could choose between them based on tone, from what I hear. If it were me, the decision would have to be made on esthetic appeal and any differences in playability, which only you can judge.

They are both great examples of the Hummingbird, and they suit your playing style to a T.
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#3 User is offline   JuanCarlosVejar 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:00 PM

Awesome guitars.If it was my choice I'd keep the TV





JC
2000 Yamaha FG720SL
2007 SJ 200 TV (Andrea)
2011 Hummingbird TV (Karen-O)
2011 L200 Emmylou Harris
2012 L00 5 star
2012 J35 5 star
2012 Elvis Costello Century Of Progress
2012 J200 Golden Era Rosewood Edition (Ness)
2012 75th Anniversary J200M Special
2014 Martin 1921 000 28K Authentic
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#4 User is offline   EuroAussie 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:21 PM

Siginficant difference in tone between them surprisingly. The Vintage seems to have a roaring bottom end, very warm, while the TV has much sparklier highs, better note seperation.

Which one's better, its a subjective preferance.
___________________________

The Big Fat Lady 02' Gibson J-150
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The Pickers 43' Gibson LG-2, 09' Furch OM 32SM (custom) , 02' Martin J-40
The Beater 99' Cort Earth 100
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#5 User is offline   Lars68 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:05 PM

Based on the sound samples and the pictures, I favor the TV. I think it sounds sweeter and more like I'm used to hearing Birds. The Vintage is more bassy, almost Martin-like. Nothing wrong with that of course, but since I own Martins, I would go for something as different as possible. I also prefer the color of the TV.

With all that said, I like them both very, very much, and in the real world I could see myself makng this choice soley based one a tone per dollar evaluation. If the financial aspect is not a factor, I'd go with the TV based on the info you have provided.

Interesting!

Lars
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#6 User is offline   scriv58 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:29 PM

tough call- i would go with the one most easy to play, the TV does seem a bit richer
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#7 User is offline   nid2007 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:43 PM

Interesting.

I will continue to hold off on my first hand analysis of the tone and sounds from the guitars until more comments, if any, come in.

I will add that the guitars are about the same weight—with the Vintage being perhaps a tad lighter. Also, the TV was set up for “me” at the action height I prefer and set for tuning a half step down. The action on the Vintage is lower-which in my experience impacts the volume and sustain a bit.

Other factors I will be considering:

1. There might be a benefit to the cooked top in terms of durability. I’ve read some things pertaining to the view that the treatment could make it more impervious to climate issues.
2. The Top of the Vintage is stunning. Looks vintage, and something about the cooking makes it look to me like Adi rather than sitka.
3. The process they used for rounding off the neck on the vintage is very nice.
4. No warranty on Vintage; Gibson warranty is available on the TV since I bought it new.
5. Probably easier to recoup my full investment on the Vintage. Sal’s cash price was fair by any standard, and the guitar is effectively mint.

If I give up the Vintage, Sal will have right of first refusal at the price I paid him. I have not made up my mind yet.

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Nid2007

'44 LG-2 (banner logo); 2012 Hummingbird TV; 2001 Songbird Deluxe (Koa back and sides); 2011 Huss and Dalton Crossroads DS; CA Cargo.

"...and a thousand compromises don't add up to a win."
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#8 User is offline   Mafy31 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

It is very hard to judge... i like both, but my preference goes to the vintage cause of the roars, like EA said in the mid/low range. It seems to have some kind of beast hidden below its top.
Edit : if i listen again, im not sure anymore... LOL
I guess that on a blind test i would probably never tell which is what.
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#9 User is offline   Trans 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:10 PM

View PostEuroAussie, on 01 March 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Siginficant difference in tone between them surprisingly. The Vintage seems to have a roaring bottom end, very warm, while the TV has much sparklier highs, better note seperation.

Which one's better, its a subjective preferance.


Ditto here for the VINTAGE. [thumbup] It sounds more balanced.

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#10 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:38 PM

(waited to get to some decent monitors, and then to the headphones)


Houston, we have a problem. The TV sounds much more lively. There are just so many possibilities as to why this could be the case-

-The variability from one guitar to another.

-The effect of the aging of every component of the TV, from glues clarifying, internal forces of the guitar body equalizing, finishes curing, etc.

-Recording variables- all of the usual suspects, here. Also- the little bit of Melissa you did on the one clip gives a good sense, with voice of the guitar ringing a little. This should be a standard a/b bit.

-Strings; it took a while for me to get my head around the idea that newer is not necessarily better when it comes to strings, that fresh set on the Vintage might need some time. Someone on the forum had tried to suggest detuning and tuning cycles. The idea didn’t go over well, but I’m not ruling it out.

-The HB Vintage is still a very new guitar, and needs to breathe. Wildwood guitars (technically) states it’s return policy is only "48 hours”(& then you get to pay shipping both ways) . . . impossible to evaluate much more than the playability and build quality, and to get a general idea of the sound. Just imagine how few months have passed since the neck and bridge were put on that guitar. It can only get better.

Of course- are you looking for “lively" in your Hummingbird, or are you seeking the nectar?

Thanks for doing that-

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#11 User is offline   nid2007 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:55 PM

I will try to make a couple of clips of both guitars strung to open tuning and play the same exact songs.

The comments here are interesting. To my ears, the guitars sound exceptionally similar. The Vintage may be a little drier, for lack of a better term. I mean that in the good way--like how good gibby sounds on a clear crisp weather day.

The clips give a decent representation of the guitars, but not a great "comparison." I was nervous and distracted when playing the Vintage--much less so when playing and recording the TV right after. For me, less tight can mean better bass string hits. I'm no great player, I just know the chords to lots of songs. I lack the subtle touch--especially when first picking up the guitar.

One thing I should share is that when I picked up the Vintage for the first time to play, it made me go "wow!" We all know that does not happen all the time.
Nid2007

'44 LG-2 (banner logo); 2012 Hummingbird TV; 2001 Songbird Deluxe (Koa back and sides); 2011 Huss and Dalton Crossroads DS; CA Cargo.

"...and a thousand compromises don't add up to a win."
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#12 User is offline   Trans 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:05 PM

View Postnid2007, on 01 March 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:



One thing I should share is that when I picked up the Vintage for the first time to play, it made me go "wow!" We all know that does not happen all the time.


I think the answer is clear here brother! [thumbup] It called your name. [biggrin]
What happened thereafter when you swapped for the TV and strummed etc. for the first get go?

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#13 User is offline   nid2007 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:21 PM

I meant when I picked up the Vintage for the first time at Sal's house. And it was strung with Nickel bronze then.
Nid2007

'44 LG-2 (banner logo); 2012 Hummingbird TV; 2001 Songbird Deluxe (Koa back and sides); 2011 Huss and Dalton Crossroads DS; CA Cargo.

"...and a thousand compromises don't add up to a win."
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#14 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:24 PM


Ok. Scratch my previous post. I’m an idiot. ‘Just went back, tiled the two SoundCloud clips side-by-side and repetitively hit the reload button and listened to the noise floor (at dangerous volume levels) at the beginning of each recording- the first two or three seconds, before the playing- the TV’s recording had much more gain from the start. All is good now.

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#15 User is offline   Trans 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:35 PM

So the recording is not set the same or the listening part here that you had noticed?
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#16 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:44 PM

View PostTrans, on 01 March 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

So the recording is not set the same or the listening part here that you had noticed?


Just the vagaries of recording, esp. w/ a smartphone's built in mic, and each time the data is transferred, things can happen, analog-> digital-> digital->analog x ?.

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#17 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:46 PM

A raised flag for launching this A/B - always entertaining. I'm still in the cans while writing.

2 very fine guitars, no doubt, but I have to go with the Vintage. As mentioned in previous posts it shares a stronger bass-side which means a fuller voice.
Then again I personally fell for Sal's guitar from the first time I heard it and think it might have loosened a bit up since then, , , , was it around last Indian-summer. .

Don't know how much time you have to experiment, but enjoy every minute of the trip.
Go back'n'forth in all kinds of moods, through all kinds of chord-changes and songs. Go high, go low, loud and quiet - go a little insane too.

In other words, be absolutely sure before choosing. Only you can hear the nuances you need - and want from your Bird in order to release what you carry inside.

Fine playing - I heard Buffalo Springfield and other Neil stuff, , , a touch Southern Man was there as well if I'm not out in the hemp. .

Could you be a hair or 2 easier next time also - so we can get to feel those acoustic materials, , really sense wood and steel, , , almost like through the mouth.


Be happy ^ you are in a terrific spot

You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#18 User is offline   nid2007 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:50 PM

View PostE-minor7, on 01 March 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

A raised flag for launching this A/B - always entertaining. I'm still in the cans while writing.

2 very fine guitars, no doubt, but I have to go with the Vintage. As mentioned in previous posts it shares a stronger bass-side which means a fuller voice.
Then again I personally fell for Sal's guitar from the first time I heard it and think it might have loosened a bit up since then, , , , was it around last Indian-summer. .

Don't know how much time you have to experiment, but enjoy every minute of the trip.
Go back'n'forth in all kinds of moods, through all kinds of chord-changes and songs. Go high, go low, loud and quiet - go a little insane too.

In other words, be absolutely sure before choosing. Only you can hear the nuances you need - and want from your Bird in order to release what you carry inside.

Fine playing - I heard Buffalo Springfield and other Neil stuff, , , a touch Southern Man was there as well if I'm not out in the hemp. .

[font="Times New Roman"]Could you be a hair or 2 easier next time also - so we can get to feel those acoustic materials, , really sense wood and steel, , , almost like through the mouth.


Be happy ^ you are in a terrific spot
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Thanks, I'll see what I can do. As for the recording, all I did was press the red button.
Nid2007

'44 LG-2 (banner logo); 2012 Hummingbird TV; 2001 Songbird Deluxe (Koa back and sides); 2011 Huss and Dalton Crossroads DS; CA Cargo.

"...and a thousand compromises don't add up to a win."
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#19 User is offline   nid2007 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:36 PM

Here are clips of both in Open D# tuning. For those willing to play at home, I'm not saying which is which this time.

https://soundcloud.com/nid2007/open-1

https://soundcloud.com/nid2007/open-2
Nid2007

'44 LG-2 (banner logo); 2012 Hummingbird TV; 2001 Songbird Deluxe (Koa back and sides); 2011 Huss and Dalton Crossroads DS; CA Cargo.

"...and a thousand compromises don't add up to a win."
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#20 User is offline   Trans 

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:04 PM

View Post62burst, on 01 March 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:



Just the vagaries of recording, esp. w/ a smartphone's built in mic, and each time the data is transferred, things can happen, analog-> digital-> digital->analog x ?.




Hmmmm? What an observation to the max! [thumbup]
I have never really thought the signal noise would have a real deep impact how its recorded specially with digital therefore signal loss.
Audiophile gurus would then only know how the signal chain is delivered and measured in some type by oscilloscope device.
I see where we are getting at here! [biggrin]

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