WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 So I just spent a lot of money on what I feel is a great guitar; the 2017 Les Paul Premium Plus Lt. Edition Tiger Burst. But the volume knob for the bridge pick-up doesn't work in that it simply turns the volume down then back up again as I rotate it around, instead of turning it all the way down to off. And the recesses in the body around the bolts of the tail piece are messed--up in that one side has some kind of ring around it that is peeling/broken and the other side doesn't have a ring at all. I've attached pictures. I spoke to the manager of the Guitar Center where I bought the guitar and he said to come-in on a day when his head tech is there but the tech already missed these two issues the first time he looked at the guitar for me before I purchased it and the store is over an hour drive away. In the mean-time I emailed Gibson about it. I really disappointed that such a high-end guitar, which plays amazingly well and sounds great, has these two issues straight from the factory. I guess I am just posting to vent and to ask if this type of thing has happened to anyone else? The volume knob not functioning properly and two cosmetic issues seems like a lot to be wrong with a Limited edition run of only 150 guitars. Any advice on what I should do? I know I can return the guitar but I don't want to do that as I love the guitar otherwise. I want it fixed, and fixed right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well whats happening on the bridge is that one of the bushings is flush with the top of the body, the other one has been put in a mm or so deeper... Theres no actual issue that will effect the guitar I don't think. As for the volume control.. I don't quite understand the issue? Are you saying that when you turn it down it never actually turns off? You can still hear it even all the way down? Looks like a nice guitar though.. Any chance of a full picture :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well whats happening on the bridge is that one of the posts is flush with the top of the body, the other one has been put in a mm or so deeper... Theres no actual issue that will effect the guitar I don't think. As for the volume control.. I don't quite understand the issue? Are you saying that when you turn it down it never actually turns off? You can still hear it even all the way down? Looks like a nice guitar though.. Any chance of a full picture :) Thanks for the reply. Neither of the posts are flush with the body. Both are well above the body, with one the bare metal in the body is showing and in the other there is a ring, in the same coloring as the body finish, around and on top of that bare metal; but said ring is peeling and bent and discolored. As for the volume pot for the bridge: As you turn the knob to turn the volume down the volume starts to turn down but doesn't turn down all the way and then midway through turning it the volume starts to come back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hello William, welcome to this nice place in the web! Sadly it is trouble that brings you here, so let's try our best to sort things out. Did you check for the controls' functions with the pickups selected separately, that is up position, formerly indicated RHYTHM on the switch washer, and down position, formerly indicated TREBLE on the thing playfully called poker chip they don't use anymore? In the middle position the controls interact with each other, but on the other hand, either volume control should mute the output when rolled completely back. It has happened to me with brand-new Gibsons that toggle switch or controls called for treatment with contact cleaner, probably due to dust residue from final buffing or so. When about the bushings of the tailpiece posts, I think that Gibson use some without heel since many years. Only those of my 1970's Gibsons and my Epiphone have heels. I'm not sure if they perhaps might have changed hands, but anyway, neither my older Gibsons nor my Epiphone are recessed around them. The surrounding areas around all the heelless ones on my Gibsons look quite "wild", that is they show incompletely finished bushings recessed into the body what I believe to be normal as all of them and hundreds more I have seen have this. Please check the pots and switch functions and keep us posted. By the way, the guitar top looks very pretty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hello William, welcome to this nice place in the web! Sadly it is trouble that brings you here, so let's try our best to sort things out. Did you check for the controls' functions with the pickups selected separately, that is up position, formerly indicated RHYTHM on the switch washer, and down position, formerly indicated TREBLE on the thing playfully called poker chip they don't use anymore? In the middle position the controls interact with each other, but on the other hand, either volume control should mute the out when rolled completely back. It has happened to me with brand-new Gibsons that toggle switch or controls called for treatment with contact cleaner, probably due to dust residue from final buffing or so. When about the bushings of the tailpiece posts, I think that Gibson use some without heel since many years. Only those of my 1970's Gibsons and my Epiphone have heels. I'm not sure if they perhaps might have changed hands, but anyway, neither my older Gibsons nor my Epiphone are recessed around them. The surrounding areas around all the heelless ones on my Gibsons look quite "wild", that is they show incompletely finished bushings recessed into the body what I believe to be normal as all of them and hundreds more I have seen have this. Please check the pots and switch functions and keep us posted. By the way, the guitar top looks very pretty! Thanks for the reply Yes, I checked the control functions in all positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 picture Removed for room for other picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Since a picture of the whole guitar was requested; here you go. Wow... id say that was worth fixing if there are any issues... You could have a dud pot.. It does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks for the reply Yes, I checked the control functions in all positions. Then the pot is obviously faulty. :unsure: I have no idea how a bad soldering point should cause this. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Wow... id say that was worth fixing if there are any issues... You could have a dud pot.. It does happen. Thanks. Yes, that's what I'm thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Then the pot is obviously faulty. :unsure: I have no idea how a bad soldering point should cause this. <_< Thanks, yes. Is this just a regular Gibson pot like in their less expensive guitars? I know my guitar is hand-wired and has orange-drop capacitors. I just want to make sure if my local store replaces the pot that they put in the right one! This is a link for this guitar http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson/Les-Paul-Premium-Plus-2017-Electric-Guitar-Tiger-Burst-1500000032900.gc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Yeah, I had a LP where one tail piece insert had finish over it and one didn't. I think it actually gets pulled off by the collar on the stud when the lacquer is still soft. It's quite common. Sounds like you've got a bad pot. They'll fix that in minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks, yes. Is this just a regular Gibson pot like in their less expensive guitars? I know my guitar is hand-wired and has orange-drop capacitors. I just want to make sure if my local store replaces the pot that they put in the right one! This is a link for this guitar http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson/Les-Paul-Premium-Plus-2017-Electric-Guitar-Tiger-Burst-1500000032900.gc Yeah I think so.. A lot of the regular production models come with a PCB board these days.. I think your one is hand wired like the traditional way from what I read.. (just take the back plate off and have a look, post a pic if you like). In which case yeah.. They will either have pots which actually say Gibson on the back or they may use another industry standard pot like CTS.. if they want to put a CTS pot on id say that's ok they are good quality (500k). But I guess if they are a Gibson dealer they will have proper spares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks, yes. Is this just a regular Gibson pot like in their less expensive guitars? I know my guitar is hand-wired and has orange-drop capacitors. I just want to make sure if my local store replaces the pot that they put in the right one! This is a link for this guitar http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson/Les-Paul-Premium-Plus-2017-Electric-Guitar-Tiger-Burst-1500000032900.gc Most Gibson guitars without push/pull pots come with 300 kOhms linear for volume and 500 kOhms audio taper for tone controls. In case the volume pot may not allow for reading a correct measurement, they may read the neck pickup's volume pot at the workshop without unsoldering if in doubt, and even without opening the guitar. The readings would be around 78 kOhms minimum around position 5 for a 300 kOhms linear respectively 128 kOhms around position 7...8 for a 500 kOhms audio taper pot with the pickups connected, the switch set to neck pickup and the meter connected to the output jack. However, the volume control's characteristic will show if it's linear or audio tapered. The volume fades much faster when turning down an audio tapered one. They don't make 300 kOhms audio taper pots, and Gibson don't use 500 kOhms linear taper ones, so the taper defines the value as well. You see, there's no wizardry at all! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Most Gibson guitars without push/pull pots come with 300 kOhms linear for volume and 500 kOhms audio taper for tone controls. In case the volume pot may not allow for reading a correct measurement, they may read the neck pickup's volume pot at the workshop without unsoldering if in doubt, and even without opening the guitar. The readings would be around 78 kOhms minimum around position 5 for a 300 kOhms linear respectively 128 kOhms around position 7...8 for a 500 kOhms audio taper pot with the pickups connected, the switch set to neck pickup and the meter connected to the output jack. However, the volume control's characteristic will show if it's linear or audio tapered. The volume fades much faster when turning down an audio tapered one. They don't make 300 kOhms audio taper pots, and Gibson don't use 500 kOhms linear taper ones, so the taper defines the value as well. You see, there's no wizardry at all! :) Really?? Last I checked they were using 500k all round? Says so on the specs list on the main site (this is for a Tribute t so no push pull knobs). Control Pocket Assembly Lead Volume Rhythm Volume Type: 500k Non-Linear 500k Non-Linear Peak Voltage: 500V 500V Range: 0-500K 0-500K Power Rating: 1/4 watt above 100K ohms 1/4 watt above 100K ohms Resistance Tolerance: +/- 20% +/- 20% Minimum Resistance: 200 ohms 200 ohms Lead Tone Rhythm Tone Type: 500k Non-Linear 500k Non-Linear Peak Voltage: 500V 500V Range: 0-500K 0-500K Power Rating: 1/4 watt above 100K ohms 1/4 watt above 100K ohms Resistance Tolerance: +/- 20% +/- 20% Minimum Resistance: 200 ohms 200 ohms Capacitors: Lead Value Rhythm Value .022uF .022uF In fact even on the Standard T with push pull they say also that its all 500k Control Pocket Assembly Lead Volume Rhythm Volume Type: 500k Push/Pull "Coil-Tap" 500k Push/Pull "Coil-Tap" Peak Voltage: 500V 500V Range: 0-500K 0-500K Power Rating: 1/4 watt above 100K ohms 1/4 watt above 100K ohms Resistance Tolerance: +/- 20% +/- 20% Minimum Resistance: 200 ohms 200 ohms Lead Tone Rhythm Tone Type: 500k Push/Pull "Pure By-pass" 500k Push/Pull "Phase" Peak Voltage: 500V 500V Range: 0-500K 0-500K Power Rating: 1/4 watt above 100K ohms 1/4 watt above 100K ohms Resistance Tolerance: +/- 20% +/- 20% Minimum Resistance: 200 ohms 200 ohms Capacitors: Lead Value Rhythm Value .022uF .022uF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Most Gibson guitars without push/pull pots come with 300 kOhms linear for volume and 500 kOhms audio taper for tone controls. In case the volume pot may not allow for reading a correct measurement, they may read the neck pickup's volume pot at the workshop without unsoldering if in doubt, and even without opening the guitar. The readings would be around 78 kOhms minimum around position 5 for a 300 kOhms linear respectively 128 kOhms around position 7...8 for a 500 kOhms audio taper pot with the pickups connected, the switch set to neck pickup and the meter connected to the output jack. However, the volume control's characteristic will show if it's linear or audio tapered. The volume fades much faster when turning down an audio tapered one. They don't make 300 kOhms audio taper pots, and Gibson don't use 500 kOhms linear taper ones, so the taper defines the value as well. You see, there's no wizardry at all! :) I am going to nod and smile and pretend that I understood all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I am going to nod and smile and pretend that I understood all of that. No problem. It is quite sufficient when the repair guy does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 I heard something rattling around inside and I found if I shake the guitar a bit I can get the volume knob to work or not work intermittently. So I opened the cover to see if anything was loose but it all looks fine with the exception that that yellow wire cover seems to be slid off the wire it is attached to. But it seems secure. I put it back together and for about 30 minutes of playing the knob worked but had a lot of static/roughness to how it brought the volume up and down. Then it stopped working again then started again. And whatever is loose and rattling around in there is still there! Shake guitar= something inside is rattling around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I heard something rattling around inside and I found if I shake the guitar a bit I can get the volume knob to work or not work intermittently. So I opened the cover to see if anything was loose but it all looks fine with the exception that that yellow wire cover seems to be slid off the wire it is attached to. But it seems secure. I put it back together and for about 30 minutes of playing the knob worked but had a lot of static/roughness to how it brought the volume up and down. Then it stopped working again then started again. And whatever is loose and rattling around in there is still there! Shake guitar= something inside is rattling around. You can upload pics to http://www.photobucket.com once uploaded there you copy the IMG link it gives you directly into your post... Does sound like a faulty pot.. Also just looking at it, that ground wire on the back of the neck volume doesn't look soldered in properly... but that may just be the pic. And for rattling.. Check all the nuts are tight on the top of the pots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 ... I put it back together and for about 30 minutes of playing the knob worked but had a lot of static/roughness to how it brought the volume up and down. Then it stopped working again then started again. And whatever is loose and rattling around in there is still there! Shake guitar= something inside is rattling around. Thank you for the pic and the detailed description of your observations. Now I think I know what's happening here. The picture shows that the pots get their ground connections via their mounting threads. The bridge pickup's volume pot is loose, this is what's rattling, and thus there is an intermittent resistance accidentally more or less interrupting the bridge pickup's volume pot's ground connection making the volume go up again. The serviceman will have to pull off the knobs, unsolder the ground wire between neck pickup volume pot and bridge and, carefully because of the cables, remove all the pots' nuts on the top. Then he should have enough room to move to be able, with the cables still attached, while taking care for the teeth washers, to lift the harness a bit out of the guitar and tighten the lower ones of the pairs of nuts on the pots' bushings' threads. Then the upper ones of the nuts must be readjusted so that the pot knobs will have a decent distance from the guitar top. Finally everything can be reassembled, and it should be all fine. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 this all sounds a bit tedious for a guy who just dropped a boat load of cash on a new axe... I'm not one to over react, but I'd just be giving this back to GC and tell them to deal with it, and get another one, maybe from some place else? I could suggest you try Sweetwater, and do it mail order, (I know some wont go this route, but with the way these mega stores are dealing with customers, you're taking just as much a risk this way too.) Sweetwater is real good.. they will make it right if there's any problems!! I know from about 15 years of exp. buying from them. good luck,, really man.. what a shame.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 this all sounds a bit tedious for a guy who just dropped a boat load of cash on a new axe... I'm not one to over react, but I'd just be giving this back to GC and tell them to deal with it, and get another one, maybe from some place else? Hmm yes and no.. If you have found a guitar that you love the look and feel of its worth fixing... All guitars are unique and he may never find another that looks and plays quite the same. While it certainly should NOT happen on such an expensive guitar, sometimes these things do happen.. As long as they fix the pot issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 If you have found a guitar that you love the look and feel of its worth fixing... All guitars are unique and he may never find another that looks and plays quite the same. I suppose there is that aspect.. I've been at this for over 50 years, I've only ran into one or two tho that fit your scenario, and I've owned.. MANY decent guitars. They can all be made "yours" over time with the right hands doing the setups. the other problem is Guitar Center's often suck at making things right.. so in depending on them, chances are, there will be shenanigans with most of these "in store" techs. ,, honestly if it was mine.. I'd have already replaced the pot and moved on just my experience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 So the stop tail post has a bit of lacquer on it, no big deal. you can't have lacquer finish to stay adhered to a metal surface,, it was supposed to be scrapped off before it was boxed for shipping.. no big deal not a finish issue The dead pot , should it have been QC'd somewhere, sure, but again no big deal and GC should do a warranty fix. Just get the "right" monkey at GC to fix the pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamStoner Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 I spoke to the manager of the store where I bought the guitar; he wants me to bring it in for the head tech to look at. I'm going to try to get there within the next few days. I also spoke on the phone to a customer service rep at Gibson this morning who was less than impressive to say the least.... I love this guitar and am keeping her, I just want the pot replaced/wiring issue fixed. It seems the cosmetic issue can't really be resolved; disappointing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 good luck William let us know how the story ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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