Fret buzz on 2017 Les Paul

[MichaelT]

I got a new 2017 Les Paul Standard recently. The action was a little high at the store, or at least higher that I would like. I took it home and set it up, lowered the bridge to the specifications here: http://archive.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm

 

I can raise the bridge a little bit and raise the strings but then the strings are a little higher than I'd like at the 12th fret and above. Or, I can lower them to the recommended height and I get a little buzz when not plugged into the amp but it's not interfering with the tuning or intonation of the strings nor does it cause any problems on any fret. Through the amp, it's not noticeable at all and plays and sounds amazing and I don't seem to be losing any sustain. It's not so bad that it is causing me any problems or any grief but I wanted to get some other opinions on how others have theirs set up. I haven't done any work on the frets nor neck adjustment. I wanted to get some opinions here before taking it to a luthier I know and trust since I know he's busy and it may be a week or more before I get the guitar back.

[Rabs]

Hmm, I would guess by the sounds of it that maybe your neck has moved a bit.. It happens... So its probably just a small truss rod adjustment that needed.

 

This happens when a guitar moves from one environment to another and is acclimatising to the change in atmospheric conditions.

 

Also one other thing that comes to mind.. Make sure that the pickups arnt too close to the strings the can pull on them and cause buzzing if too close..

[MichaelT]

In your opinion, loosen or tighten neck? I know to do a little at a time but it's been years (decades) since I've had to do that. Which would you recommend to try first? And, counterclockwise or clockwise?

[RockyA]

In your opinion, loosen or tighten neck? I know to do a little at a time but it's been years (decades) since I've had to do that. Which would you recommend to try first? And, counterclockwise or clockwise?

 

Go to this thread http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/135665-gibson-custom-shop-setup-tips/ and if it don't work go to the second page of the threads and you will see it Gibson Custom Shop Setup Tips. I would assume your truss rod was too loose causing the action to rise high and then when you just lowered the action strings fretted out and buzzed in the upper frets. Best thing is to raise action back to where it was and then tighten the truss rod just a 1/8 to 1/4 turn clockwise and let the neck set for a few days. You should notice the previous high action lowered Take the guitar in playing position while sitting. Place left index finger on top of 2nd fret (not fretboard, the fret) with right hand pinky on top of the 16th fret. look at string relief between bottom of low E string and top of 7th and 8th fret, there should be just a hair of relief if the string is touching the frets then turn counterclockwise to loosen increase amount of relief, if there is more than a business card of space then turn clockwise to decrease the amount of relief. Tap your right hand index finger on the low E string at 7th and 8th fret, there should be a slight bounce of the string, if no bounce there should be slightly more relief till it just begins to bounce slightly. Then let the neck settle a day or two before setting your action at 3/64 for high E and 5/64 for low E.... It should play without buzz

[Rabs]

In your opinion, loosen or tighten neck? I know to do a little at a time but it's been years (decades) since I've had to do that. Which would you recommend to try first? And, counterclockwise or clockwise?

I wouldn't like to advise you without seeing whats going on...

 

It should really be checked first before you do that.. And you can check it yourself if you have a long straight edge. What you do is put the straight edge along the fretboard, if its a ruler place it on its side. Then you need to look and see if there is a gap in the middle.

 

 

But usually in most cases... You want to turn it 1/4 turn clockwise

[MichaelT]

I'll give it a shot and report back in a few days. I'd like to hear from others too if they have any opinion. So, what I'm hearing from people so far is that I should be able to have low action but absolutely no fret buzz. Is that correct?

[rct]

I'll give it a shot and report back in a few days. I'd like to hear from others too if they have any opinion. So, what I'm hearing from people so far is that I should be able to have low action but absolutely no fret buzz. Is that correct?

 

1. No. You have to define "low action".

 

2. Most of the time, most guitar players that have "low action" have their strings too low and spend inordinate amounts of time chasing buzzes and wolfy overtones.

 

3. You do yourself no favors with "low action".

 

rct

[MichaelT]

I'll take measurements the next time I do adjustments but the low action I was talking about was the action specified in the guide here: http://archive.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm

[rct]

I'll take measurements the next time I do adjustments but the low action I was talking about was the action specified in the guide here: http://archive.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm

 

You can try. All you need is one fret up a tad on the guitar side of the fret you are playing and you'll have buzz. The specs they use are suggestions, and many people achieve those measurements after much twiddling.

 

High enough to not buzz, and go a -><- more, that's my motto. I've never measured a guitar's action.

 

rct

[Rabs]

Yeah im much the same... if the fretwork has been done correctly all you can do is lower them till they start buzzing and as RCT says then just raise it a tad... and that's the lowest buzz free action you can get on your guitar...

 

Of course as mentioned if the truss rod needs a tweak it will get you closer, but still only so far down.. A lot of guitar is compromise.. They arnt perfect, they are made of organic material that moves and changes, so we just do the best we can :) (just like all of our guitar heroes who just got on with it and probably didn't ever worry about such things).

[RockyA]

The current Gibson specs are .012 relief at 7th fret, action at 12th fret is 5/64 Low E and 3/64 high E. If you have your owners manual Gibson states that action lower that these specs that result in fret buzz is not covered by Gibson and is not considered a factory defect. Also if you got a Pre Pack Checklist with your guitar it will show it was checked with action at 12th fret L 5 and H 3, 1st fret L 2 and H 1 (64ths). If you have checked relief using the 2nd fret and 16th fret method and getting a hair clearance at the 7th and eighth fret with some bounce you may also capo the 1st fret and press the 22nd fret on the low E string and using a mechanics feelers gage set to .012 will slide between string and 7th fret. If you have the neck relief set correct and the action set at 5/64 and 3/64 it should not buzz at all. If there is too much relief it can and not enough relief to where it is completely straight or backbowed it will. Players depending on how they play with a heavy or light touch do set action to set them, but for a new guitar coming out of the gate, the Gibson Spec is considered standard action.

 

This copied from the owners care guide manual and is avail on Gibson Website.

 

Action

 

The term "action" defines the distance that a string must be depressed before it meets the fret. Action measurements are taken in 64ths of an inch and are calculated from the top of the 12th fret on the underside of the string. We set the action on all instruments at the factory to the optimum playability setting. On occasion, lower than standard settings may be desired by the player. This can be achieved by adjusting the bridge studs, although it could result in string "buzz" or "rattle" (this is caused by the string vibrating against the fret). "Buzz" or "rattle" caused by lower than standard string action is not considered a defect of the instrument.

 

STANDARD ACTION CHART

(Action at the 12th fret)

 

 

Treble Side

 

Bass Side

 

Electric Guitar 3/64 5/64

Acoustic Guitar 4/64 6/64

Banjo 7/64 7/64

Mandolin 5/64 5/64

Bass Guitar 5/64 7/64

[american cheez]

1. No. You have to define "low action".

 

2. Most of the time, most guitar players that have "low action" have their strings too low and spend inordinate amounts of time chasing buzzes and wolfy overtones.

 

3. You do yourself no favors with "low action".

 

rct

 

i was all ready to click "like" when i saw item 3. i disagree. if one wants high action there is always acoustic guitars, but half the fun of an electric guitar is how easy they are to play.

but i totally agree with the first 2 items, and what they imply w/o saying. the exception (in my mind) are those people who feel that it's not low enough until the strings lay on the frets. there is a limit to how low you can go before you went too far. but a properly set-up guitar (mine for example) can go pretty low before you have any problems. the first thing i do to any guitar i buy is go through the entire thing and adjust everything to what i feel is optimal for me. why have a race car if you're not going to tune it?

[rct]

i was all ready to click "like" when i saw item 3. i disagree. if one wants high action there is always acoustic guitars, but half the fun of an electric guitar is how easy they are to play.

but i totally agree with the first 2 items, and what they imply w/o saying. the exception (in my mind) are those people who feel that it's not low enough until the strings lay on the frets. there is a limit to how low you can go before you went too far. but a properly set-up guitar (mine for example) can go pretty low before you have any problems. the first thing i do to any guitar i buy is go through the entire thing and adjust everything to what i feel is optimal for me. why have a race car if you're not going to tune it?

 

A race car needs control in order to be effective. Lifting your action beyond what you perceive to be "low" will create strength. Strength creates control. When you have 8 12s flappin yer Cheap Jeans you need control more than anything else. Might be a generation thing.

 

rct

[Eracer_Team]

One thing I learned as a guitar player (and I'm not a very good one at that) is the ability to grab anybody's guitar and be able to play with minimal mistakes.

ESP with the pressure of live audience.

 

Playing a a guitar always adjust to you will not give you that ability.

 

PS low action actually inhibits tone

PPS many of the "greats" would have been considered high action,,, SRV comes to mind.

 

So don't be "so closed minded" on action vs easy playability.

[RockyA]

What is considered low action and high action is actually lower or higher than manufacturers specified STANDARD action. If it is lower than 5/64 and 3/64 it is low action and if it is higher than that it is considered high action. I have quite a few LPs and couple of ES 335s that are all at the standard action and play great, but then I also have one LP, the Fort Knox that the action is 3.5/64ths and 2/64ths and it plays and feels the same as the ones with standard action. I also have a SG Standard that the action is 4/64 and a little over 2/64ths that also plays great even with slide with no buzzes and has great sustain. All of these guitars feel the same in my hand. I have strats and Teles that 4 are at 4/64 standard action, and two that are 5/64 and 4/64s cuz of 7.5 radius but they all feel the same action to me.

 

So it seems to boil down the action low or high is dependent on the specific guitar, the player, how if feels to the player because just because a guitar measurements may show it low action, it reality it may not be to the player and it can still produce great clarity and sustain and even take the slide without having to be raised.

[MichaelT]

One thing I learned as a guitar player (and I'm not a very good one at that) is the ability to grab anybody's guitar and be able to play with minimal mistakes.

ESP with the pressure of live audience.

 

Playing a a guitar always adjust to you will not give you that ability.

 

PS low action actually inhibits tone

PPS many of the "greats" would have been considered high action,,, SRV comes to mind.

 

So don't be "so closed minded" on action vs easy playability.

 

You're right about a few things. There are some guitars that others have owned which I have played over the years that I did have issues with because they weren't nearly as playable as my 81 V, which I've had since 1984 and have played since then. I was looking for something similar out of my Les Paul. My 2007 V is about the same as the Les Paul is now. It may be a truss rod adjustment that's needed. I don't have my strings flat on the fretboard, nor do they create a lot of buzz, particularly past the 7th fret or so. I'm taking it to a luthier friend to set up in exchange for me working on his computer this weekend and see what he says. A little is ok and it doesn't seem to limit the tone or sustain because it's not that bad. Taking it up a little bit brings the higher frets, past the 12th, a little higher than I'd like. I've built quite enough finger strength and control over the years to pick up another guitar and play and play well, although perhaps not as well as mine because after 33 years, I'm pretty used to all the nuances of that guitar.

 

I'll let y'all know how things work out. Thank you all for all your advice and tips.

[Twang Gang]

You mentioned that the fret buzz is heard when playing the guitar acoustically. When you plug into the amp you don't hear or notice enough to matter. When playing a solid body that is not plugged in we all tend to hit the strings pretty hard just so we can hear them - plugged in you use normal picking. If it doesn't buzz when you play amplified then you probably have it as low as it can go.

 

But check the relief in the neck as Rabs and others noted and a slight truss rod adjustment might give you even better action. It is usually recommended to loosen the truss rod first (counterclockwise)then tighten back up until you get just slight relief. But to answer your question, you should be able to get great action and NO fret buzz.

[MichaelT]

You mentioned that the fret buzz is heard when playing the guitar acoustically. When you plug into the amp you don't hear or notice enough to matter. When playing a solid body that is not plugged in we all tend to hit the strings pretty hard just so we can hear them - plugged in you use normal picking. If it doesn't buzz when you play amplified then you probably have it as low as it can go.

 

But check the relief in the neck as Rabs and others noted and a slight truss rod adjustment might give you even better action. It is usually recommended to loosen the truss rod first (counterclockwise)then tighten back up until you get just slight relief. But to answer your question, you should be able to get great action and NO fret buzz.

 

Thank you. I have this on order: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DALF966/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

That should tell me if the neck itself is straight or not and what I need to do. If it's bowed up, like a U shape, is that tighten or loosen and which direction do I turn the truss rod?

 

I also ordered this as well so that way I'll have the knowledge at my fingertips. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0760349231/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thank you all for your input and suggestions.

[badbluesplayer]

I normally use the strings as a straight edge to see how much relief there is. Unless it's a high gravity day and my strings are sagging.

[rct]

I normally use the strings as a straight edge to see how much relief there is.

 

I've always been embarrassed that I don't have a fret level because I have six of them on every guitar already. Thanks for freeing me from the shame.

 

rct

[MichaelT]

After purchasing a notched straight edge, buying The Les Paul Manual: Buying, Maintaining, Repairing, and Customizing Your Gibson and Epiphone Les Paul, adjusting the trust rod and neck, bridge, saddles, intonation, all is well once again. No string buzz in the places I original had string buzz. String height is good. Intonation and sound is good.

 

Thank you all for all your tips and information. My guitar is exactly the way I wanted it. I may be changing to 10's instead of 9's because I noticed I tend to be pressing down a little harder than I need to at the lower frets and causing the G string to sound out of tune if I play any of the first few frets. It could be the string height at the nut causing that but I'm going to have a friend of mine who is a luthier check it out. I'm not going to attempt that alone without professional assistance and advice.

 

Thanks again.

[RockyA]

What exactly did the purchased Les Paul Manual have in it about setting up the guitar that the Gibson Custom Shop set up tips and Basic factory setup specs on Gibson website didn't provide free? Just real curious.

[MichaelT]

What exactly did the purchased Les Paul Manual have in it about setting up the guitar that the Gibson Custom Shop set up tips and Basic factory setup specs on Gibson website didn't provide free? Just real curious.

 

Well, I like books and like having it in my hand. It's a little more detailed, with pictures and covers more than just basic setup. I did use the Custom Shop setup tips in conjunction with the book and a couple of measurement tools. The book also covers wiring and electronics, fretwork, neck adjustment, and a lot of other information I found useful. I'm primarily a guitar player and usually paid money to get my guitars set up and didn't do much more than restring them and set intonation. It's got a lot of information and pictures. I probably could have found it all online and in videos but as I said, I like books and I like having something like that at my fingertips. If I were to buy a Strat, I'd probably buy a similar book for it as well. It was helpful for me and interesting reading. I picked up a few things on how to clean the pots on my Flying V, which is getting a little dirty over the last 36 years. I'm going to attempt that as well this coming weekend. I also have a friend here in town who is a luthier and does work for a couple different music stores in the area and he's offered to work with me as well. I might try my hand on working on my Marshall amp as well, since it's something that interests me.