Are the lower priced Gibson acoustics noticbly better than an Epiphone Masterbilt?

[Allenjason95]

🤔❄️❄️

 

🙄👵🏻👵🏻👵🏻

 

I usually don't speak in cartoon but I guess when in Rome......

[MissouriPicker]

What a thread!!!!.......Kind of meanders here, then meanders there, then back around there, then back here again. Actually, it's still meandering...........Hell, all I know is that I kind of think like RCT.......Play the guitar/s you like and the hell with the rest of it.

[Mojorule]

The reason Epiphone exists is as a budget line for Gibson. Epiphones (in most cases unless you're talking some Elitist models) are lower end price wise and in many cases they are budget variations/versions of Gibsons. Epiphone exists for the same reason Squire exists. The only difference is before being taken over by Gibson Epiphone was its own company and old Epiphones have a good rep so occasionally a modern Epiphone is a non-budget guitar.

 

 

Thanks for the history lesson. I've owned an Epi Casino for 20 years and Gibson semi for 10, and this fact had never occurred to me. What you say is true for the electrics and to a lesser extent for the standard acoustics. It is not true of your Masterbilt, since they were typically designed as their own thing and not as not a replica of any existing Gibsons. It's only now that we're seeing Masterbilts which are really comparable with the cheaper Gibsons in terms of design. For what it's worth, people here can also tell you that Gibson-built Epi acoustics never really matched Gibson acoustics in the way that the Epi electrics did. Casinos were cheaper ES 330s, but Texans were not just cheaper J45s, and Frontiers were not just cheaper Hummingbirds. Scale-length differences again. Before you lecture us on the difference between Epis and Gibsons do a bit more research and get your facts straight.

 

There are still a million comparisons online between Masterbilts and Gibsons online though. You can absolutely compare them just like I compared my cheap POS Chinese Fender acoustic to the Masterbilt I bought.

 

 

Yes there are many such comparisons. I'm surprised you haven't found a satisfactory answer among them. But clearly they're not really up to much.

 

Yes you can compare any guitar you like to any other guitar. You can compare a Squier Tele to a Gibson LP. You can compare a ukelele to a Jackson Soloist. But the things you can compare will vary according to what the instruments you are comparing have in common. Comparing a Squier Tele to a Gibson LP will tell you more about whether you like Teles or LPs than it will about their different quality levels. It might also tell you whether you prefer a bolt-on or glued-in neck, and whether you prefer poly or nitro finishes. It won't really tell you whether the Gibson's nitro finish is of better quality than the Squier's poly finish.

 

Comparing a long-scale Masterbilt acoustic to a short-scale Gibson J15 is like comparing an Epi Blueshawk to a Gibson Les Paul Studio. The first has the typical Fender scale-length and the other has the typical Gibson scale-length. The first has a poly finish and the second has a nitro finish. Again, the comparison will tell you whether you prefer a longer or shorter scale-length, and whether you prefer poly or nitro. It won't tell you whether the poly or nitro finish is of better quality. It will tell you whether you prefer the sound of a semi-hollow guitar with higher string tension and through-body stringing, or the sound of a solid body with a tune-o-matic/stopbar arrangment and lower string tension. It won't tell you which sound is of better quality, whether it is worth forking out for a Gibson Blueshawk instead of the Epi.

 

When anyone asks any question regarding how a guitar sounds or advice on models etc......anyone could just reply "play them for yourself".

 

That's trite and annoying and accomplishes nothing. Yet every single time someone asks a question like this someone replies with "only you can decide.....each guitar is different". When you go to buy a guitar do you sit and play every single guitar in the store before deciding? I sure don't. Because I've done my research before hand and have an idea of what I'm looking for.

 

Nobody on this thread has tried simply to fob you off with that line, even if they have used it. People here are genuinely willing to discuss and advise. There is a lot of knowledge here. But you haven't laid out your criteria for assessing quality at all.

 

I wouldn't like to misrepresent anybody here, but if you read around the board, you'll note that there are people here with vastly different approaches to assessing the quality of guitars. Victory Pete likes the sound of his Gibsons, but when he talks about quality he focuses more on build and finishing issues. So he is critical of the quality of many Gibsons because they have excess glue visible at the joints, some poorly fitting braces and kerfing, and untapered bridge pin holes. If you also care about such details, then the answer to your opening question might simply be, no, Gibsons aren't worth the extra money.

 

Buc McMaster, on the other hand, couldn't care less about those details, and judges the quality of Gibson on their feel and sound. If you judge quality in the same way as Buc, then a Gibson probably is worth the additional outlay. Bear in mind, though, that Buc also accepts that no Gibson will come to him with the perfect set-up for his needs. If a perfect set-up out of the box is part of what defines quality for you, then again, no a Gibson might not be worth the extra cash. But if you can adjust to a reasonable factory set-up, or are happy to pay a technician to fine-tune things, then maybe it would be.

 

Several of us have tried politely to find out what your preferences are, so that we can give targeted advice, and you've responded aggressively. For example, I asked very clearly whether you liked the tone of a J15, and you've not actually answered that question. If you'd really done your research you could have replied straightforwardly to that question, and probably explained what you like about it. No need to try every guitar in a shop, of course, but proper research might involve comparing videos of different models to find out which are in the running. A J15 might well be better made than a Masterbilt, but if you don't like the thumping bass, strong mids and less pronounced trebles of a short-scale Gibson the quality issue is meaningless. We'd be better off pointing you to a second-hand Gibson Advanced Jumbo, a Martin or a Taylor in a similar price range.

 

No, but the Gibson is better. The question is how much better?

 

Which is my question. I own an Epiphone. I'm not entirely happy with it. I asked for advice on the lower priced Gibsons.....you know....because this is the Gibson acoustic forum (or have I already said that?). My question is are the lower end Gibsons worth the extra money? That's OBVIOUSLY SUBJECTIVE but I still want to know the opinions of others who have ACTUAL EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE WITH THE GUITARS I'M INTERESTED IN. Just telling someone to go play guitars isn't helpful. Just telling them no one can decide which guitars sound best to them is not helpful.

 

As I said, there is a lot of actual experience with Gibson guitars here, even if it is not always with the lower-end models. When I bought my Gibson acoustic, it was the least expensive short-scale slope-shouldered Jumbo in the range. It was absolutely worth paying more for than any Masterbilt, because no short-scale, slope-shoulder Masterbilts were available. The guitar's dimensions are absolutely key to its sound, and that sound is the difference between an also-ran acoustic and a guitar I really want to play. So if on the basis of recordings you really like the sound of short-scale Gibson Jumbos, then yes it probably is worth playing more, unless you find that the new generation of more similar Masterbilts is better than the one you own. The release of the AJ45ME alters the picture and makes it harder to answer your question - especially because I've not been able to track down an AJ45ME to try out.

 

Dude....obviously the guitars are somewhat different. They're still all acoustics.

 

That statement is fairly clear evidence that you haven't done much research yet. Can you imagine the response that an acoustic guitarist would get if he went into the Les Paul forum and said: 'Dude... obviously Squier Teles, Epiphone Dots and Gibson Historic LPs are somewhat different. They're still all electrics'? You came here looking for experience and knowledge and dropped that one?

 

RCT, I think AllenJason's point was that he's been around the block and already knows that guitars sound different, that it's a personal decision, etc. He was just hoping to get some others opinions on the cost/benefit of Gibson vs Epi Masterbuilts like he already has. I'm guessing he's already played a few Gibsons or wouldn't be interested in them specifically.

 

I'd venture that the 'They're still all acoustics' line suggests that he hasn't played many Gibson acoustics.

 

What are you trying to say dude? That a Gibson isn't as durable as an Epiphone? Why?

So to get a great sound.....you have to build a shitty guitar?

 

Not shitty, "light".

 

Martin especially, Gibson I'm not so sure about, suffered for a couple few decades for overbuilding guitars. Too much/too heavy/too square bracing makes for tops that don't do what tops need to do in order to move and sound right. But a lightly built top that vibrates well can also suffer fairly quickly in terms of guitar life times, like a ten year old dread with an imploding top for instance. The struggle between the head stock and the bridge plate and the tension between them is a difficult one to control and still make a good sounding resonant guitar.

 

Facts. Not an opinion, not a discussion of taste, just facts.

 

Further evidence that you've not done much research on acoustics, AJ. RCT knows his Gibson acoustic history well. It should be added that Bozeman-made Gibson acoustics are not overbuilt, which is why they are considered a vast improvement on Norlin-era instruments. But if your idea of quality is solid build and durability, then you ought to check out some 1970s Gibson acoustics with double top bracing and volutes. They will seem a bargain next to new J15s. They'll most likely sound like a a pile of crap, but their quality in terms of build strength will be unquestionable.

 

I've seen plenty of cheap old accoustics that have fallen apart and I've seen plenty of old Gibson accoustics that looked pretty good to me and were selling for huge amounts.

 

There are more old Martins in the looking good and selling expensive category. Received wisdom is that Martin owners looked after their (more expensive) instruments better. If the Gibsons you see have been are pre-Norlin, they are exceptionally well looked after. If they are Norlin-era guitars, they are overbuilt tanks which most likely sound like crap.

 

Thanks. Like I said I'm leaning towards the J15.

 

My question is only difficult to answer if you don't understand that I obviously realize it's subjective.....just like almost everything else about guitars........I'm not asking anyone to for anything besides their own opinion on Gibsons VS Masterbilts. Everyone has an opinion....right?

 

You guys seem to be overthinking and over analyzing my question to a degree that was never intended and despite me repeatedly explaining that I understand it's subjective to a degree..... you still have difficulty with it.

 

We're not overthinking it. We know you know it's subjective. We just also know that there are a number of classic Gibson models which are radically different from each other. And we also know that there is difference within the Masterbilt range. Whereas you pretty well said that they're all just acoustics. We're trying to narrow things down a bit, and we tend to start from what people like, so that we can try to make our opinions as relevant to the question as possible.

[Jinder]

All Gibsons (at any price point) are the next tier up from any Epi. I love my Epi Texan, it's a characterful and very enjoyable guitar that punches well above its weight but my Gibsons are better. An Epi will be more durable in terms of finish as the thicker polycellulose lacquer they use is tougher than nitrocellulose as used on Gibsons, but nitro is a lighter finish that allows the guitar to resonate more.

 

I recommend you buy a J15, J35 or J29 (depending on whether you want Walnut, Mahogany or Rosewood), you will appreciate the tone, playability and build quality as a step up from your Masterbilt which will definitely be worth the price difference.

[Allenjason95]

Thanks for the history lesson. I've owned an Epi Casino for 20 years and Gibson semi for 10, and this fact had never occurred to me. What you say is true for the electrics and to a lesser extent for the standard acoustics. It is not true of your Masterbilt, since they were typically designed as their own thing and not as not a replica of any existing Gibsons. It's only now that we're seeing Masterbilts which are really comparable with the cheaper Gibsons in terms of design. For what it's worth, people here can also tell you that Gibson-built Epi acoustics never really matched Gibson acoustics in the way that the Epi electrics did. Casinos were cheaper ES 330s, but Texans were not just cheaper J45s, and Frontiers were not just cheaper Hummingbirds. Scale-length differences again. Before you lecture us on the difference between Epis and Gibsons do a bit more research and get your facts straight.

 

 

 

 

Yes there are many such comparisons. I'm surprised you haven't found a satisfactory answer among them. But clearly they're not really up to much.

 

Yes you can compare any guitar you like to any other guitar. You can compare a Squier Tele to a Gibson LP. You can compare a ukelele to a Jackson Soloist. But the things you can compare will vary according to what the instruments you are comparing have in common. Comparing a Squier Tele to a Gibson LP will tell you more about whether you like Teles or LPs than it will about their different quality levels. It might also tell you whether you prefer a bolt-on or glued-in neck, and whether you prefer poly or nitro finishes. It won't really tell you whether the Gibson's nitro finish is of better quality than the Squier's poly finish.

 

Comparing a long-scale Masterbilt acoustic to a short-scale Gibson J15 is like comparing an Epi Blueshawk to a Gibson Les Paul Studio. The first has the typical Fender scale-length and the other has the typical Gibson scale-length. The first has a poly finish and the second has a nitro finish. Again, the comparison will tell you whether you prefer a longer or shorter scale-length, and whether you prefer poly or nitro. It won't tell you whether the poly or nitro finish is of better quality. It will tell you whether you prefer the sound of a semi-hollow guitar with higher string tension and through-body stringing, or the sound of a solid body with a tune-o-matic/stopbar arrangment and lower string tension. It won't tell you which sound is of better quality, whether it is worth forking out for a Gibson Blueshawk instead of the Epi.

 

 

 

Nobody on this thread has tried simply to fob you off with that line, even if they have used it. People here are genuinely willing to discuss and advise. There is a lot of knowledge here. But you haven't laid out your criteria for assessing quality at all.

 

I wouldn't like to misrepresent anybody here, but if you read around the board, you'll note that there are people here with vastly different approaches to assessing the quality of guitars. Victory Pete likes the sound of his Gibsons, but when he talks about quality he focuses more on build and finishing issues. So he is critical of the quality of many Gibsons because they have excess glue visible at the joints, some poorly fitting braces and kerfing, and untapered bridge pin holes. If you also care about such details, then the answer to your opening question might simply be, no, Gibsons aren't worth the extra money.

 

Buc McMaster, on the other hand, couldn't care less about those details, and judges the quality of Gibson on their feel and sound. If you judge quality in the same way as Buc, then a Gibson probably is worth the additional outlay. Bear in mind, though, that Buc also accepts that no Gibson will come to him with the perfect set-up for his needs. If a perfect set-up out of the box is part of what defines quality for you, then again, no a Gibson might not be worth the extra cash. But if you can adjust to a reasonable factory set-up, or are happy to pay a technician to fine-tune things, then maybe it would be.

 

Several of us have tried politely to find out what your preferences are, so that we can give targeted advice, and you've responded aggressively. For example, I asked very clearly whether you liked the tone of a J15, and you've not actually answered that question. If you'd really done your research you could have replied straightforwardly to that question, and probably explained what you like about it. No need to try every guitar in a shop, of course, but proper research might involve comparing videos of different models to find out which are in the running. A J15 might well be better made than a Masterbilt, but if you don't like the thumping bass, strong mids and less pronounced trebles of a short-scale Gibson the quality issue is meaningless. We'd be better off pointing you to a second-hand Gibson Advanced Jumbo, a Martin or a Taylor in a similar price range.

 

 

 

As I said, there is a lot of actual experience with Gibson guitars here, even if it is not always with the lower-end models. When I bought my Gibson acoustic, it was the least expensive short-scale slope-shouldered Jumbo in the range. It was absolutely worth paying more for than any Masterbilt, because no short-scale, slope-shoulder Masterbilts were available. The guitar's dimensions are absolutely key to its sound, and that sound is the difference between an also-ran acoustic and a guitar I really want to play. So if on the basis of recordings you really like the sound of short-scale Gibson Jumbos, then yes it probably is worth playing more, unless you find that the new generation of more similar Masterbilts is better than the one you own. The release of the AJ45ME alters the picture and makes it harder to answer your question - especially because I've not been able to track down an AJ45ME to try out.

 

 

 

That statement is fairly clear evidence that you haven't done much research yet. Can you imagine the response that an acoustic guitarist would get if he went into the Les Paul forum and said: 'Dude... obviously Squier Teles, Epiphone Dots and Gibson Historic LPs are somewhat different. They're still all electrics'? You came here looking for experience and knowledge and dropped that one?

 

 

 

I'd venture that the 'They're still all acoustics' line suggests that he hasn't played many Gibson acoustics.

 

 

 

 

 

Further evidence that you've not done much research on acoustics, AJ. RCT knows his Gibson acoustic history well. It should be added that Bozeman-made Gibson acoustics are not overbuilt, which is why they are considered a vast improvement on Norlin-era instruments. But if your idea of quality is solid build and durability, then you ought to check out some 1970s Gibson acoustics with double top bracing and volutes. They will seem a bargain next to new J15s. They'll most likely sound like a a pile of crap, but their quality in terms of build strength will be unquestionable.

 

 

 

There are more old Martins in the looking good and selling expensive category. Received wisdom is that Martin owners looked after their (more expensive) instruments better. If the Gibsons you see have been are pre-Norlin, they are exceptionally well looked after. If they are Norlin-era guitars, they are overbuilt tanks which most likely sound like crap.

 

 

 

We're not overthinking it. We know you know it's subjective. We just also know that there are a number of classic Gibson models which are radically different from each other. And we also know that there is difference within the Masterbilt range. Whereas you pretty well said that they're all just acoustics. We're trying to narrow things down a bit, and we tend to start from what people like, so that we can try to make our opinions as relevant to the question as possible.

 

Holy lord. Anyone got the Cliff's notes version of that?

[OldCowboy]

Holy lord. Anyone got the Cliff's notes version of that?

If you know your stuff, you don't need Cliff's Notes. Essentially, the information is very clear and direct.

[jvi]

gibson guitars are noticably better, have a nice day all...j

[fortyearspickn]

Holy lord. Anyone got the Cliff's notes version of that?

 

AJ, you asked for input. MojoR gave you a lot of it. If you wanted the Executive Summary - there were several of those as well.

Asking if 'A GIBSON' is worth the price difference over your Masterbuilt is actually easy to answer. As JVI succinctly stated just above. YES.

But you weren't specific about - which model or features you were interested in.

 

We've assumed your budget would point you to a $1,500 guitar, absent any guidance from you. But each of the dozen 2017 models would sound better. Some - more better.

Here's an even more definitive answer - go buy a $5,500 Gibson SJ200 Vintage and I guarantee you it will sound immeasurably, clearly better than your Epiphone. Problem solved.

 

 

 

 

[Allenjason95]

AJ, you asked for input. MojoR gave you a lot of it. If you wanted the Executive Summary - there were several of those as well.

Asking if 'A GIBSON' is worth the price difference over your Masterbuilt is actually easy to answer. As JVI succinctly stated just above. YES.

But you weren't specific about - which model or features you were interested in.

 

We've assumed your budget would point you to a $1,500 guitar, absent any guidance from you. But each of the dozen 2017 models would sound better. Some - more better.

Here's an even more definitive answer - go buy a $5,500 Gibson SJ200 Vintage and I guarantee you it will sound immeasurably, clearly better than your Epiphone. Problem solved.

 

You guys really are angry and terrible at reading. "We've assumed your budget would point you to a $1,500 guitar, absent any guidance from you"?

 

"Absent any guidance"? Reread the thread title.

 

Is a $5,500 guitar "lower priced" to you?

 

If it is you're a lucky man.

 

"And we"'ve"? Why are you referring to yourself as "we've"?

 

I've never seen so many people get so worked up and confused by such a simple question.

[blindboygrunt]

Why don't we put this thread to bed and accept that no one is gonna give 'the right answer'

[kelly campbell]

Why don't we put this thread to bed and accept that no one is gonna give 'the right answer'

 

 

Sounds like a good idea to me..

[Allenjason95]

Sounds like a good idea to me..

 

This board is dead.....I ask a simple question.....which many people here have answered.....(how many times have I said I'm going to look into the J15?) but for some reason some people here have trouble with someone asking a very simple question .

[blindboygrunt]

Allen , it's obvious to a man on a galloping horse what you're doing here

 

I gave you benefit of doubt , I'll say it again and then I'm getting my coat 'good luck'

[mz-s]

People with a Napoleon complex that always have to have the final word, at any cost, irritate me.

[Allenjason95]

Allen , it's obvious to a man on a galloping horse what you're doing here

 

I gave you benefit of doubt , I'll say it again and then I'm getting my coat 'good luck'

 

Yeah...asking for advice on Gibson accoustics on a forum dedicated to ....are you ready for it? GIBSON ACOUSTICS. It's obvious to me and you ..but some of the other guys here seem to be having trouble.

[Allenjason95]

People with a Napoleon complex that always have to have the final word, at any cost, irritate me.

 

Serious question: why did you feel the need to post that?

 

It's adds nothing and is just another catty response. So what was the point other than you felt left out and wanted to sling some mud?

[OldCowboy]

Keep plugging away! There must be a few left here who haven't yet seen through your 💩.

[Mr. Gibson]

Have a great and wonderful day allenjason95. May the peace of Jesus Christ be with you!✝

[Allenjason95]

Keep plugging away! There must be a few left here who haven't yet seen through your 💩.

 

Here's a serious question....I replied to the thread about the Harvest Moon cover by complementing the guy's cover. I thought he did a great job and said so.

 

You followed me over there and replied to my compliment with a snoring smiley face to me complementing the guy. Why?

[Allenjason95]

Have a great and wonderful day allenjason95. May the peace of Jesus Christ be with you!✝

 

Thanks. As-salāmu ʿalaykum.

[kwalker201]

Here's a serious question....I replied to the thread about the Harvest Moon cover by complementing the guy's cover. I thought he did a great job and said so.

 

You followed me over there and replied to my compliment with a snoring smiley face to me complementing the guy. Why?

 

 

Allenjason95, you were referring to my cover of that NY song that I didnt post. However, I have never claimed to be a player or a vocalist. But one thing I know is that I will never become a crabby old crusty a-hole like OC and some of the others that post on here.

[OldCowboy]

Here's a serious question....I replied to the thread about the Harvest Moon cover by complementing the guy's cover. I thought he did a great job and said so.

 

You followed me over there and replied to my compliment with a snoring smiley face to me complementing the guy. Why?

So here's a serious answer. Your reply was 5% compliment and 95% crap about your television viewing (no one cares) and a gratuitous reaction to an album (no one cares about that, either).

[OldCowboy]

Allenjason95, you were referring to my cover of that NY song that I didnt post. However, I have never claimed to be a player or a vocalist. But one thing I know is that I will never become a crabby old crusty a-hole like OC and some of the others that post on here.

Ok - you won't have to attend the meetings☺

[kwalker201]

Ok - you won't have to attend the meetings☺

 

 

That is good because my fishing waders don't come up high enough to attend those meetings sir.

[Mafy31]

That is good because my fishing waders don't come up high enough to attend those meetings sir.

 

I'm glad you talk about it, was wondering if i go for lower end JMC Expert waders or plastic bags. I know they arent same price, but it is all suggestive, is there really a reason for the cost difference?