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MHS Humbuckers '59 ES-335 Pickups

#21 User is offline   Golden 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:02 AM

 Larsongs, on 24 January 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

I've had several Gibsons including a 1959 ES345 with original PAF's. It was one of those Guitars that sat under a Bed unplayed in the Case for 30 years & when I got it back in '89 it was like new. Mint.

It sounded great but eventually I Gassed for something else & traded it. Big mistake.

I've had many Gibsons with various HB's including a new ES335 & a new ES Les Paul with MHS's. All claiming to sound like the real Deal. None of them do. Some sound better than others but I haven't heard any HB sound as good as what were in my '59 ES345. Never should've sold it.


Its difficult to compare a guitar you dont have but today there are pick-ups very close and when A/B'd in the exact same guitar its pratically impossible to hear a difference. The Tim White pick-ups from around 2008 were quite similar but expensive and rare these days but he copied directly from a 59 PAF set. That said they were all slightly different, the guitars sounded darker some brighter. Not an easy task unless you A/B the two sets. The MHS set uses both a Alnico II and III N/B, the Custom Buckers are both III and sound slightly less output less and overwhelming but clear and full, that said they used various magnets in 59 and Vs also and so each set was unique to itself. So a good deal really is personal choice. I also found back in the 90s that the Seths work very well but it took three sets for me to come acoss a neck and bridge out of the three I liked together so after that I stopped messing with them. Imo the slight variance is somewhat similar to the older pafs. Imo your tone is still out here, be it you have to put it together yourself.

http://www.gibson.co...humbuckers.aspx


https://reverb.com/i...buckers-pickups


Nevertheless good luck in the tone search.

This post has been edited by Golden: 24 January 2018 - 08:04 AM

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#22 User is offline   gnappi 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:47 AM

 Steve Tr, on 25 March 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

I just received a '59 ES-335TDN and she is beautiful looking, and for the most part, sounding. Working with all control settings, I am perhaps not totally wild about the tonality of the MHS pickups. I would love to hear from owners of said guitar and get some feedback.

Thanks,

Steve

MHS, like BB's are a bit bright for me, and depending on the git may sound better in one than another.

The BB's in my Midtown Custom are shrill and difficult to get a usable tone out of, while the BB's in my 335 figured are better and easier to EQ the high component out of.

My current LP-ES has MHS and they are brighter than a LP-ES I returned to the retail store but are manageable.
OTOH, I've yet to find / own a git that has 57's that I have this variability feeling about.

What likely influences my opinion is I do not use ANY pedals, or overdrive / crunch /distortion on my amps, just straight git sounds with a very small tad of reverb.




Regards,

Gary
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#23 User is offline   Golden 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 01:27 PM

 gnappi, on 25 January 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

MHS, like BB's are a bit bright for me, and depending on the git may sound better in one than another.

The BB's in my Midtown Custom are shrill and difficult to get a usable tone out of, while the BB's in my 335 figured are better and easier to EQ the high component out of.

My current LP-ES has MHS and they are brighter than a LP-ES I returned to the retail store but are manageable.
OTOH, I've yet to find / own a git that has 57's that I have this variability feeling about.

What likely influences my opinion is I do not use ANY pedals, or overdrive / crunch /distortion on my amps, just straight git sounds with a very small tad of reverb.


Have you heard these yet...might be the best of both worlds for you ....

https://reverb.com/i...a3r-paf-pickups
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#24 User is offline   Mike L. 

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:18 PM

Curious how MHS compare to Burstbuckers. I'm getting a 2015 335 with BB.. I like BB's a lot more than 57 Classics and will very likely be parting with my 2017 ES-355 for that reason. I'm a little flabbergasted that Gibson uses 57 Classics in 355 and more desirable tone PU's in the 335?
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#25 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 07:28 PM

 Mike L., on 22 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

Curious how MHS compare to Burstbuckers. I'm getting a 2015 335 with BB.. I like BB's a lot more than 57 Classics and will very likely be parting with my 2017 ES-355 for that reason. I'm a little flabbergasted that Gibson uses 57 Classics in 355 and more desirable tone PU's in the 335?


But therein lies the answer. It is your opinion that the BB are "more desirable". Gibson feels they are appropriate, and I happen to agree. The MHS are not as bright as BBs. Which a lot of guys don't like. But the MHS are used in the reissues because they are more like the original. Brighter may be liked more, but doesn't make them more accurate to the originals. I think Gibson is actually doing a good job matching pups to guitars over the last few years, especially the Memphis models. Do you really believe Gibson is just cheaping out by using 490s in the BB King Lucille? I have one, and don't think so!
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#26 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 08:50 AM

I believe it also depends on the pickup/amp combination?

My Deluxe is quite dark because I voiced it that way, so I get more of a "growl" and less shrillness out of my pickups when pushing the amp into breakup.
I also have a low power 12AY7 tube in the first stage (as it should be, although a lot get swapped out for 12AX7's), which also gives me more tone and less harsh distortion IMHO.
My 5F1 tweed champ reacts completely differently, as the 12AX7 has more gain and the amp is a lot more brash and in your face...Still nice, but a different animal altogether.
I have Classic '57's in my LP, which are more powerful, but sound great in that guitar; I had an SG Special with 490's in and didn't like them at all, they were just dull and lifeless. I changed them for a pair of Bare Knuckle "Crawlers" which were amazingly good. Another guitar that I should never have sold (sighs)....

A lot of this discussion is down to personal preference, so this is just my opinion of course.
"I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring" - David Bowie
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#27 User is offline   Pin 

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 10:38 AM

 Dave1963, on 27 February 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

A lot of this discussion is down to personal preference, so this is just my opinion of course.


That's the truth of it Dave.

Personally, I love the MHS pickups on my reissue ES345. I couldn't believe just how good they are when I got the guitar and still feel like that.

On the other hand, I hate the original series 7 pickups in my Les Paul 25 / 50 (muddy crap) and if I have said once I'm going to swap 'em out I've said it a dozen times. Still haven't done it yet though!
GUITARS: 1978 Gibson Les Paul 25 / 50; Gibson ES345 1959 Reissue; 1974 Yamaha AE12 jazz box; Yamaha SG2000: Fender "Roland Ready" Strat; Epiphone Les Paul '56; Epiphone SG400; HK Steinberger copy; Cimar Classical.
AMPS & EFFECTS: Various effects, synths and Mesa Maverick 1 x 12.
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#28 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:56 PM

 Pin, on 27 February 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:


Personally, I love the MHS pickups on my reissue ES345. I couldn't believe just how good they are when I got the guitar and still feel like that.


Likewise here. What 345 did you get? Mine is the '64 reissue TDC Maestro VOS, and I like it just the way it is. (The varitone is interesting, but not essential)
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#29 User is offline   Pin 

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:04 AM

 Wmachine, on 27 February 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

Likewise here. What 345 did you get? Mine is the '64 reissue TDC Maestro VOS, and I like it just the way it is. (The varitone is interesting, but not essential)


Hi Wmachine,

I got a sunburst 1959 ES345 reissue and I love it. I have made two small changes to it - swapped the tailpiece for a TP6 (already faded) which I prefer and fitted a tortoiseshell pickguard which I also prefer. Of course I have retained the original fitments.

Many years ago I had a sunburst 345 (of course that one was stereo which I always found a nuisance) and I bitterly regret selling it on but then I was young and even more silly than I am now.

I love the varitone myself and just wouldn't buy a 345 or a 355 without one.
GUITARS: 1978 Gibson Les Paul 25 / 50; Gibson ES345 1959 Reissue; 1974 Yamaha AE12 jazz box; Yamaha SG2000: Fender "Roland Ready" Strat; Epiphone Les Paul '56; Epiphone SG400; HK Steinberger copy; Cimar Classical.
AMPS & EFFECTS: Various effects, synths and Mesa Maverick 1 x 12.
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#30 User is offline   Larsongs 

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 12:50 AM

 Pin, on 28 February 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Hi Wmachine,

I got a sunburst 1959 ES345 reissue and I love it. I have made two small changes to it - swapped the tailpiece for a TP6 (already faded) which I prefer and fitted a tortoiseshell pickguard which I also prefer. Of course I have retained the original fitments.

Many years ago I had a sunburst 345 (of course that one was stereo which I always found a nuisance) and I bitterly regret selling it on but then I was young and even more silly than I am now.

I love the varitone myself and just wouldn't buy a 345 or a 355 without one.


Wow Déjà Vu.... I had a Sunburst '59 ES345 Stereo with Varitone & those amazing sounding PAFS too when I was a young guy. I had no idea what I had & sold it. I've been chasing that sound for the past 30 years. I've yet to find it. I recently purchased a new Sunburst Gibson ES335 with MHS Pickups. It is a great Tribute to the '59's & comes very close & may even be as good. Sometimes I wonder if it's the memory of the old Guitars we used to have that makes them seem just a little bit sweeter? Nah! That was the best sounding Guitar I've ever heard!

Lars
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#31 User is offline   Pin 

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:49 AM

 Larsongs, on 01 March 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

Wow Déjà Vu.... I had a Sunburst '59 ES345 Stereo with Varitone & those amazing sounding PAFS too when I was a young guy. I had no idea what I had & sold it. I've been chasing that sound for the past 30 years. I've yet to find it. I recently purchased a new Sunburst Gibson ES335 with MHS Pickups. It is a great Tribute to the '59's & comes very close & may even be as good. Sometimes I wonder if it's the memory of the old Guitars we used to have that makes them seem just a little bit sweeter? Nah! That was the best sounding Guitar I've ever heard!

Lars


Hi Lars,

Yes, the MHS are pretty close - very good indeed IMO. I shall certainly not be swapping them out that's for sure.

But you are right also about those original PAFS. They were indeed really sweet.
GUITARS: 1978 Gibson Les Paul 25 / 50; Gibson ES345 1959 Reissue; 1974 Yamaha AE12 jazz box; Yamaha SG2000: Fender "Roland Ready" Strat; Epiphone Les Paul '56; Epiphone SG400; HK Steinberger copy; Cimar Classical.
AMPS & EFFECTS: Various effects, synths and Mesa Maverick 1 x 12.
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#32 User is offline   badbluesplayer 

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 06:59 AM

Also keep in mind that the pickup wiring style effects the tone and the versatility of the pickups.

The "Memphis Tone Circuit" is IMO a lousy wiring scheme and it makes it difficult to find the sweet spot of the guitar. It's similar to 50's style wiring. 335's don't sound good with it IMO. I'm not sure what model years have that wiring style, but I believe it includes model years starting around 2010. My 2011 had it. My 2007 339 had it. My buddy's 2015 335 had it. I had to change the wiring in my guitars to "sixties style" (modern wiring) get a more "normal" tone out of it. [thumbup]

This post has been edited by badbluesplayer: 04 March 2018 - 07:01 AM

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#33 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 11:37 AM

 badbluesplayer, on 04 March 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

Also keep in mind that the pickup wiring style effects the tone and the versatility of the pickups.

The "Memphis Tone Circuit" is IMO a lousy wiring scheme and it makes it difficult to find the sweet spot of the guitar. It's similar to 50's style wiring. 335's don't sound good with it IMO. I'm not sure what model years have that wiring style, but I believe it includes model years starting around 2010. My 2011 had it. My 2007 339 had it. My buddy's 2015 335 had it. I had to change the wiring in my guitars to "sixties style" (modern wiring) get a more "normal" tone out of it. [thumbup]


I have a '63 ES335 and don't have an inkling of the wiring....I might try and get a mirror in the f hole to find out... [confused]
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#34 User is offline   badbluesplayer 

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 05:37 AM

 Dave1963, on 04 March 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

I have a '63 ES335 and don't have an inkling of the wiring....I might try and get a mirror in the f hole to find out... [confused]


Good idea. The Memphis Tone wiring can be confusing to look at. The little ceramic cap goes between one of the lugs on the tone pot and the case of the pot. But it might be all encased in some shrink wrap and might be hard to see.

The wiring diagram is attached.

Attached File(s)


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#35 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:03 AM

 badbluesplayer, on 05 March 2018 - 05:37 AM, said:

Good idea. The Memphis Tone wiring can be confusing to look at. The little ceramic cap goes between one of the lugs on the tone pot and the case of the pot. But it might be all encased in some shrink wrap and might be hard to see.

The wiring diagram is attached.


Many thanks. I have investigated the differences, including the schematics and the full spec of the guitar (It doesn't actually state the wiring type that I can find).
From the volume/tone interaction though, it appears it is not the '50's wiring however.

Whatever it is, I love it!
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#36 User is offline   badbluesplayer 

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:05 AM

 Dave1963, on 05 March 2018 - 06:03 AM, said:

Many thanks. I have investigated the differences, including the schematics and the full spec of the guitar (It doesn't actually state the wiring type that I can find).
From the volume/tone interaction though, it appears it is not the '50's wiring however.

Whatever it is, I love it!

I just noticed that the current '63 Block 335 appears to have the Memphis Tone Circuit. It calls it the "MTC Historic control assembly." If you ever feel like the tone is too dull when you back the volume down then you might have that circuit and may want to consider using regular 60's wiring.

See Specs Here
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#37 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:44 PM

Thanks again and good find. I like it the way it is so far (it's early days) and will keep it thus, unless I get a hankering to tinker....(a well documented fault of mine)
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#38 User is offline   WildBillMojo 

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:02 PM

The MHS's are standard in my '64 VOS ES-345 of course. Flat out I think they are really great but the lack of top end becomes an issue for me when I roll back the volume (I use the VOL control quite a bit). Thinking of changing the wiring to Vintage instead of Modern which should brighten it up a bit, although I'm balking at the prospect of coughing up $000's on a VOS guitar and then CHANGING it! Not to mention that pulling the harness out of a 345 seems to be quite a bit of trouble........
Still, the guitar's for playing, right? So it needs to sound good.

Attached File(s)


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#39 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 06:01 AM

 WildBillMojo, on 29 March 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

The MHS's are standard in my '64 VOS ES-345 of course. Flat out I think they are really great but the lack of top end becomes an issue for me when I roll back the volume (I use the VOL control quite a bit). Thinking of changing the wiring to Vintage instead of Modern which should brighten it up a bit, although I'm balking at the prospect of coughing up $000's on a VOS guitar and then CHANGING it! Not to mention that pulling the harness out of a 345 seems to be quite a bit of trouble........
Still, the guitar's for playing, right? So it needs to sound good.

Looks like you have the 2014 model version of the 2016 that I have. Yours has the anchors under the Custom Made plate, mine doesn't have either.

This post has been edited by Wmachine: 30 March 2018 - 06:01 AM

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#40 User is offline   Djhblues 

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 06:23 AM

I have them in my ES-Les Paul and am very impressed with them, although this is my first Les Paul since my LP Deluxe back in 1972 (which I still have). It could be the total package with the ES-Les Paul, but running this guitar through my rig and adding a Full Drive 3 for gain is a sound all its own. There's a lot to be said of the vol and tone pots on the guitar, which are 500k with orange drop caps. Very smooth taper and control.
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