Buc McMaster Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 ........what's the point in this exercise ? No real point, Grunt. As I said, just for kicks and curiosity. As it stands now, about half of responders sing. I personally find that a shame, for as RCT pointed out, singing is the thing. Ain't got to be no Sinatra to have a good time singing a simple tune. It's cathartic for the soul. Fancy guitar players are a dime a dozen and might seem impressive for the moment, but it's a good melody or perhaps some clever lyric that you're playing in your head after you see a performer live or hear a tune on the radio...........not a screaming guitar solo. And I wholeheartedly agree that three chords and a memorable story is the good stuff! Seems flat pickers are a minority among the members, most some style of fingerpicker. I never learned the art of digit plucking.......perhaps that's because I started out on electric guitar learning classic rock and old rock n' roll stuff........out to be a rockstar, ya know. Ha! Maybe I could learn if I had the heart, but I don't at this stage. And like the old bell curve, most of us rate our skills average, right in the middle. Pretty much like everything else in this world, a few on the left, a few on the right.....but most gather on the middle ground. As Mafy observes, making music is more about feel and emotion than physical skills and I certainly hope those that voted included that factor in their self-assessment. So Grunt, no big agenda........just thought it might be a different, interesting view of the folks here. ;) To Admin: this might make for an interesting sticky thread, accumulating over months/years to see how membership style changes over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I participated in the poll. I'm a three, I think. But maybe I'm a three on the Donald Trump scale (10). Yeah that's about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Among 'folkies' who constituted my peers long ago, fingerpicking definitely prevailed. I learned that approach first, but also liked using a flatpick sometimes. One day, somebody I respected musically told me "Ya know, you're actually a flatpicker, not really a fingerpicking person..." and, once the shock wore off, I had to agree. It's not that I don't enjoy fingerpicking, but flatpicking makes more visceral sense - if that's at all coherent😒 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 It is fun buc , you were right about that Everyone's a 3 on that scale Sal , mind you , he'd get away with rudimentary guitar as everyone would be so distracted by the hair , think I read that he grows it on some golf course in Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 As it stands now, about half of responders sing. I personally find that a shame, for as RCT pointed out, singing is the thing. Ain't got to be no Sinatra to have a good time singing a simple tune. It's cathartic for the soul. Fancy guitar players are a dime a dozen and might seem impressive for the moment, but it's a good melody or perhaps some clever lyric that you're playing in your head after you see a performer live or hear a tune on the radio...........not a screaming guitar solo. And I wholeheartedly agree that three chords and a memorable story is the good stuff! Singing as well as playing acoustic guitar makes a real self-contained thing, doesn't it? I started out singing and playing, lost my way a couple of times including a stint where I just sang in front of a band after losing confidence in my guitar playing. Later I went to more guitar lessons and then was a 'hired hand' type of guitarist in a few bands - no singing! One night around that time, sitting around talking about bands with the Better Half, and this is an old theme of hers, she mentioned how the majority of a live audience wouldn't know or remember the guitar player or even know what they were doing, wheras they all know and remember the singer! True, isn't it? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 So Donald Trump is the third Everly Brother ? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Personally i prefer to bowl orthodox over the wicket with my fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 So Donald Trump is the third Everly Brother ? No, he's the fourth Stooge! As for the poll, my category is missing: > Fingerstylist with flesh & fingernails (no picks!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 ...I would never say I can play in a band but I could probably earn a few bucks on a street.... Interesting. I'd say I could always play in a band but would probably get arrested on account of the 'merits' of my playing on a street... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 No, he's the fourth Stooge! As for the poll, my category is missing: > Fingerstylist with flesh & fingernails (no picks!). "Pick two fingers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 As for the poll, my category is missing: > Fingerstylist with flesh & fingernails (no picks!). Thanks for the revision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Fancy guitar players are a dime a dozen and might seem impressive for the moment, but it's a good melody or perhaps some clever lyric that you're playing in your head after you see a performer live or hear a tune on the radio...........not a screaming guitar solo Huh? I suspect that you are confusing electric guitar soloists or instrumentalists with acoustic guitar soloists/instrumentalists here. (On an acoustic guitar forum to boot😄). I think acoustic guitar soloists/instrumentalists are not a dime a dozen and are quite impressive. (We might be back to the Tommy Emmanuel subject.). And, electric guitarists do screamin' solos, acoustic guitar instrumentalists do impressive solos that usually knock socks off with their acoustic authenticity and intracasy (and skill). Just thought I'd correct what was previously stated in this thread. Disclaimer: I am an acoustic guitar soloist/instrumentalist although I also do some vocals. Both are respectable art forms and take skill (and are impressive.) QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 I suspect that you are confusing........... No sir, I'm not confused. Fancy guitar players are a dime a dozen, electric and acoustic. While prodigious skills can be impressive, if that's all one's got it can get boring rather quickly. Let's see......how many instrumental tunes (since the 1960s) do we hear on the radio? Not many......if any. Wonder why that is.........? I figure it's because after one or two well played and maybe even interesting instrumental melodies, it's boring for most listeners. There's no chorus to sing along with, there's no lyrical hook that sticks in the mind, there's no story told. And it must be admitted that the human voice is much more versatile than six strings on a guitar. Timbres, inflections, phrases and innuendo that only a voice can muster. No argument about Emmanuel.......incredible talent. But there's a reason you don't hear his work on the radio: people want to hear a voice, a song, a tale told, something they can relate to and sometimes remember for a lifetime. What would Jimmy Page be without Robert Plant? A studio musician backing some other singer. But of course, your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 No sir, I'm not confused. Fancy guitar players are a dime a dozen, electric and acoustic. While prodigious skills can be impressive, if that's all one's got it can get boring rather quickly. Let's see......how many instrumental tunes (since the 1960s) do we hear on the radio? Not many......if any. Wonder why that is.........? I figure it's because after one or two well played and maybe even interesting instrumental melodies, it's boring for most listeners. There's no chorus to sing along with, there's no lyrical hook that sticks in the mind, there's no story told. And it must be admitted that the human voice is much more versatile than six strings on a guitar. Timbres, inflections, phrases and innuendo that only a voice can muster. No argument about Emmanuel.......incredible talent. But there's a reason you don't hear his work on the radio: people want to hear a voice, a song, a tale told, something they can relate to and sometimes remember for a lifetime. What would Jimmy Page be without Robert Plant? A studio musician backing some other singer. But of course, your mileage may vary. I suspect you are confusing radio friendly and commercialized music with being the benchmark of great and appreciated music without regard to instrumental classical that has a smaller commercial audience, but also has a heritage of 200 or more years as a contributor to societal culture. As well as with jazz instrumental music that has a smaller, though devoted audience. I personally find the acoustic guitar instrumental I play gets me more hired gigs than when I previously performed only vocal/guitar music. I had +50 hired gigs in 2016 and this year so far I have 65 (and still counting) scheduled gigs for 2017. The reason is exactly the opposite of what you stated. There are so many vocal/guitarists out there that a skilled guitar instrumentalist stands out from the pack in terms of being hired for gigs. At least that is what the venues hiring my instrumental music have conveyed to me. I am not putting down vocal/guitar combinations or talent at all as you put down instrumentalists. I respect vocal/guitarists as I too am one, but I disagree that acoustic guitarists are a dime a dozen or that their music is not appreciated as live music just because it's not radio friendly. My experience tells me a skilled instrumentalist is in high demand for hired gigs and very much appreciated by music enthusiasts. We may not agree, but this perspective needs to be shared to counter your opinion. Although, it's likely your opinion is addressing only barroom or Open Mic venues where my opinion is addressing non-barroom or Open Mic venues where different types of music are preferred/appreciated. That is why I am not disputing the appreciation of vocals/guitar music but rather disputing your dismissal of skilled guitar instrumental music because it too is quite appreciated. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Baby Elephant Walk. Midnight In Moscow. Theme from The GodFather. Summer Place. Last Date. I'm done. I can think of as many VOCAL hits from ten artists without trying. Lyrics drive home the song. The melody is the highway. The song is the 18 wheeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 ..........wheras they all know and remember the singer! True, isn't it? BluesKing777. If it were me singing, they'd really remember it! (not in a good way) I agree with great guitar players a dime a dozen. My skill level is a dime a gross. I'm always in awe of great singers, a true God given talent. Beyond that, you need a great personality to win over the crowd. I'm also impressed with good song writing. Is there room in the poll for this talent? ( I don't have that either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Baby Elephant Walk. Midnight In Moscow. Theme from The GodFather. Summer Place. Last Date. I'm done. I can think of as many VOCAL hits from ten artists without trying. Lyrics drive home the song. The melody is the highway. The song is the 18 wheeler. Bach. Beethoven. Mozart. Handel. Wes Montgomery. The Chantays. Hendrix' guitar. Segovia. Duane Eddy. Laurence Juber. DickDale. Tommy Emmanuel. Grant Green. George Benson. Ravi Shankar. Miles Davis. Big band groups. Earl Scruggs. Willie Nelson playing a solo on Trigger. Waylon chicken pickin a solo. Ralph Mooney playing a steel guitar solo. Listening to the late Jim Croce' lead acoustic guitarist ornamenting his songs. And, on and on and on. The music itself takes you places beyond words. Words/vocals take you to well directed places. To appreciate music, one may appreciate both. Unless one chooses to not. All the better if one expands one's boundaries and musical appreciation. It's not about radio play, it's about appreciating music, whatever kind it is. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 If it were me singing, they'd really remember it! (not in a good way) I agree with great guitar players a dime a dozen. My skill level is a dime a gross. I'm always in awe of great singers, a true God given talent. Beyond that, you need a great personality to win over the crowd. I'm also impressed with good song writing. Is there room in the poll for this talent? ( I don't have that either) No one is arguing about the art of singing. Very bizarre though how so many guitarists here do not seem to appreciate the skilled art of guitar playing. Both are artistic. Separate or together. It is bizarre how guitarists are contradicting this.. Perhaps someone should start a Singers forum as this is a guitar forum where guitar playing doesn't seem to be recognized by some as being anything but a voice accompaniment ..when it can be but is not limited to being. Or worse yet, called a dime a dozen, meaning of no value. How shortsighted. I've staged/hosted a bi-monthly acoustic jam for 17 years. There number of vocalists accompanying themselves there and playing rhythm guitar there is about 80%. The number of lead guitarists there is about 20%, all that can also play rhythm guitar and do vocals. This ratio has been consistent for 17 years. Where are the dime a dozen good lead instrumentalists referenced? Now I can understand some of you saying you prefer vocal music with guitar as an accompiment. For sure, everyone is entitled to their preference. And everyone is entitled to promo the type of music they play. But to put down skilled guitar playing or disregard any appreciation of it on a guitar forum is a bit much, don't ya think? QM aka Jazzman Heff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I'm also impressed with good song writing. Is there room in the poll for this talent? Agree. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 This was kind of fun earlier - what's happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 This was kind of fun earlier - what's happening? A discussion of folks saying they do not appreciate skilled guitar playing only vocals Is under question. I question why this is happening...why not appreciate both since we are all guitar players. Go figure. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I like guitar playing that adds to the vocals. The picker doesn't have to be Mark Knopfler, but if his/her picking/strumming enhances the song, then it works for me. That said, I certainly appreciate and enjoy the talents of guys like Knopfler, Roy Clark, Chet Atkins, Marty Stuart, and many more. It's just that you don't have to be as good as them to still be good. What's really good about all the video and audio files in this forum is that you get to see/hear all the different styles. Each of us is different. For example, we might all like folk or country, but we each play it in our own style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I like guitar playing that adds to the vocals. The picker doesn't have to be Mark Knopfler, but if his/her picking/strumming enhances the song, then it works for me. That said, I certainly appreciate and enjoy the talents of guys like Knopfler, Roy Clark, Chet Atkins, Marty Stuart, and many more. It's just that you don't have to be as good as them to still be good. What's really good about all the video and audio files in this forum is that you get to see/hear all the different styles. Each of us is different. For example, we might all like folk or country, but we each play it in our own style. Well said! QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 But of course, your mileage may vary. Yes, my mileage does vary - completely. I hear the music first & foremost. In fact, I pay little attention to vocals. Not to say I don't appreciate vocals. I actually like to sing & really enjoy good harmonies. But what always grabs me is the music. Give me Venuti & Lang. Give me Django & Stephane. Give me Benny G & Charlie C. Give me Doc & Merle. Give me Norman & Nancy. Give me Chet & Jerry. Give me Chet & Les. Give me Chet & Merle Travis. Give me Merle Travis. Give me Michael Bloomfield. Give me David Grisman. Give me Joe Pass. And so on. I can be happy all day & every day without any vocals whatsoever. Yes, everyone's mileage varies, and that's perfectly okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Yes, my mileage does vary - completely. I hear the music first & foremost. In fact, I pay little attention to vocals. Not to say I don't appreciate vocals. I actually like to sing & really enjoy good harmonies. But what always grabs me is the music. Give me Venuti & Lang. Give me Django & Stephane. Give me Benny G & Charlie C. Give me Doc & Merle. Give me Norman & Nancy. Give me Chet & Jerry. Give me Chet & Les. Give me Chet & Merle Travis. Give me Merle Travis. Give me Michael Bloomfield. Give me David Grisman. Give me Joe Pass. And so on. I can be happy all day & every day without any vocals whatsoever. Yes, everyone's mileage varies, and that's perfectly okay. Great grouping of skilled guitarists! QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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