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Black Dog

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Really? I must be missing something.

 

The cheapest R-I I can see advertised at the moment on the Andertons site is a '58 which works out at $4,736 and they only have one example in stock at that price.

Sweetwater, however, do them for $4,699. They have a dozen or so in many different finishes.

 

eusa_think.gif

 

Could you please post the link to the Andertons R-I which is such a good deal?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Pip.

 

Sure. There are several, really. Most importantly, I'm not looking for a R8 or R9. I want a R0. The one that I was most interested in was one of the "artist inspired" models. It is based on a R0, with some modifications based on specific artists. here's the link: https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/LPR04M2M9530/solid-body-electric-guitars/gibson-custom-shop-artist-inspired-60-les-paul-in-antiquity-burst

 

Based on my calculations it would be a significant cost savings. At least for anyone in the US. The least expensive R0 I can find here is $6500. This guitar is listed at 3499 pounds. That includes a 20% VAT which should not apply to a purchase from outside UK (at least that's how I read it). So that gets it down to 2950 pounds. With the current exchange rate that puts it at $3680 USD. Shipping per Andertons is at a mere $42 USD. US customs tax would be 5%, or $184 USD. That gets you to $3906 USD.

 

Even if you look at a R0 true Historic, the price here in US is starting at $8500. yesterday they had a R0 true historic listed at 6999 pounds (if I recall correctly). That guitar is gone today but, (I'll spare all the details) after everything above is calculated it would come out to around $6200 USD.

 

That seems like a pretty big differnce at least to me. If I am wrong on my math or other assumptions, then I'm sorry for all the fuss.

 

Anyway, It turns out that it really doesn't matter because Gibson apparently forbids dealers from selling abroad, most likely for this exact reason.

 

If I have made any errors please let me know.

 

Thanks.

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I don't see anything too bad going on here... Been some poking from both sides.... :)

 

But seriously.. Find out about the CITES requirements...

 

From what I know any Rosewood being sold or bought internationally will need documentation..

https://blog.andertons.co.uk/guitars/cites

 

Hi Rabs.

 

To everyone involved: I did respond with what I thought was some sarcasm (perhaps a bit egdy) but certainly did not mean any real offense. Sorry if it was taken as such.

 

The information about CITES is interesting. I don't know what it means. Maybe that is the real reason Andertons won't sell abroad, although the guy (or is it bloke???) I spoke with on the phone at Andertons told me it was because of Gibson's restrictions.

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Hi Rabs.

 

To everyone involved: I did respond with what I thought was some sarcasm (perhaps a bit egdy) but certainly did not mean any real offense. Sorry if it was taken as such.

 

The information about CITES is interesting. I don't know what it means. Maybe that is the real reason Andertons won't sell abroad, although the guy (or is it bloke???) I spoke with on the phone at Andertons told me it was because of Gibson's restrictions.

The problem, if there will be one will be at your end when it comes in to the country.. Every country (annoyingly) is doing their own thing too on how they enforce it..

 

So its probably a good idea to look up what the US rules are.

 

And yes, they had to stop selling internationally while the certification is sorted out. These new rules only came in to force in January and no one was prepared (there was a fair amount of panic in the industry in January).. And from what I know its still all being sorted out... So manufactures have to get certificates from their suppliers, then sellers have to get certificates to sell them on.. All a bit of a pain really.

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I was wondering that. It seems so unlikely that any NEW Gibson would be cheaper here.

 

All this international trade stuff is crazy. Maybe Gibson has to drop the price way down in the UK because of things like the VAT just to be competitive and keep them relatively affordable.

 

Of course, then I start to think how much they are really making off these when they're sold in the US.

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I feel sure tax will be owed. I believe the country of manufacture makes no difference. I think, when shipping, the country of origin is where it was shipped from. No US sales tax was collected when it was sold to the UK market. The chap above who asked the sender to mark the country of origin as the US was wrong to do so I think. Seems to have gotten away with it though.

 

I'm no expert. All the above could be rubbish.

 

I did check with custom's prior to the transaction. I explained the entire transaction (truthfully) to the DHL customs department. They were in full agreement. They also explained that custom charges are not collected unless the item is valued over $800. This item was declared above that value but since it's origin is USA nothing was owed. I've also purchased USA made products from Canada. Same rules apply. I did everything on the up and up and did not 'get away' with anything. I did my homework and did everything legally. I'm no expert either, but I do my homework.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

 

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...I want a R0. The one that I was most interested in was one of the "artist inspired" models. It is based on a R0, with some modifications based on specific artists...

I saw that one yesterday but didn't click on it as I thought you were looking for a 'real' R0. Interesting info about it on the Andertons page. I had a quick look for it on the official Gibson site but couldn't see it mentioned. Strange. I'd like to know exactly how it differs from a regular (i.e. not True Historic) CS R0. That's a lovely guitar at a VERY good price.

 

And the savings are actually slightly more than you calculated since without VAT it would cost £2,915.83 so the final figure would be roughly $3,857.

But the CITES thing makes all this (for the moment) hypothetical. From my understanding of the latest CITES update transport of an item such as a guitar, for personal use, is OK within Europe but not from the UK (say) to the USA.

I wonder if they'll ever work that problem out? Or perhaps the difficulty for US makes import/export easier for THEM to control because few folks could be bothered with the paperwork???

 

Just back to the price of the CS Historics for a mo; I've had a scan for regular R0's and in the UK they can be had for as little as £4,008! I've never seen them priced that low.

If you fancy a CS '58 Historic? Here's an absolute stunner for under £3k!.............msp_love.gif...............

 

http://www.richtonem...kohRhoCpMbw_wcB

 

I paid more than that five years ago for a second-hand R9! What's going on?!?!?!

 

Pip.

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Guest Farnsbarns

The artist inspired reissues are an Anderson's exclusive. They are cheaper. Don't know why, I did watch an Anderson's video about them but can't remember. It's on YouTube.

 

In the pic it looks like it has a no-wire abr1. I think an R0 comes with a wire abr1. There will be other differences.

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The artist inspired reissues are an Anderson's exclusive. They are cheaper. Don't know why, I did watch an Anderson's video about them but can't remember. It's on YouTube.

 

In the pic it looks like it has a no-wire abr1. I think an R0 comes with a wire abr1. There will be other differences.

All recent '52-'60 R-I's have no-wire ABR-1s as that was original spec - although both mine do have wire as they are so old...

 

So the 'Artist Inspired' are exclusive to Andertons? That would explain why no-one else has any for sale!

According to the link the four examples they have at the present are based on Clapton's 'Beano' and have an assymetrical neck profile; Grovers...etc...etc...

Short-tenon? Non-Aniline dyes? Sheathed truss-rod? Non-molecular level plastics? They might not even have a Hide Glue set neck!.......lol!

 

But for £3.5k? Bargain! And that R8 at Richtone music in my earlier post is still haunting me!.............msp_scared.gif...............

 

Pip.

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You know you want it Pip... [biggrin]...

eusa_naughty.gif

 

"Get Thee Behind Me, Santa ! ! !..."

 

msp_laugh.gif

 

I read the small print (msp_blushing.gif) and it seems as though that's not the actual guitar they are selling!

I supposed we're so used to seeing dealerships posting pictures of actual stock items we (I?) just assume What You See Is What You (will) Get but apparently not from Richtone.

 

Shame. Errmm....I mean "Just as well"...

 

Pip.

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I saw that one yesterday but didn't click on it as I thought you were looking for a 'real' R0. Interesting info about it on the Andertons page. I had a quick look for it on the official Gibson site but couldn't see it mentioned. Strange. I'd like to know exactly how it differs from a regular (i.e. not True Historic) CS R0. That's a lovely guitar at a VERY good price.

 

Pip.

 

Here are some of the specs from Andertons:

 

"When looking at guitars to build off of none are much better than the Gibson Custom Shop Reissues. Based on a 1960's Les Paul this guitar has had a few modifications to make it nicer to play and look at. First off all the back of the body has been upgraded to lightweight Mahogany so there is less strain on your back and we have also gone for a Maple top we picked ourselves at the factory.

 

Aside from those changes a lot of the basic build is the same as you would see on a lop of R9's from the fretwire and inlays to the drilling and routing. Every little detail has been carefully made to make sure you are getting an authentic 1960 Les Paul experience."

 

Specifications

 

Body Wood: 1 Piece Lightweight Mahogany

Top: Hand picked Maple

Neck: Mahogany

Fretboard: Rosewood

Pickups: Custombucker pickups.

Nut: Nylon

Bridge: ABR-1

Tuner: Grover Kidney

Long neck tenon

 

I'm not sure what other differences there may be but they make it seem like it's a "real" R0. Anyway, hope someone gets to enjoy it!

 

Addendum: actually, if you read the specs for one of the other artist series guitars (https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/LPR94M2M9528/solid-body-electric-guitars/gibson-custom-shop-artist-inspired-59-les-paul-in-western-desert) you'll see they have more detailed specs, hide glue etc.

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...Long neck tenon...

I'm not sure what other differences there may be but they make it seem like it's a "real" R0. Anyway, hope someone gets to enjoy it!

If you read the specs for one of the other artist series guitars (https://www.anderton...-western-desert) you'll see they have more detailed specs, hide glue etc...

I missed the bit about the neck tenon and the specs in the other link make it clear it's VERY similar - and might be effectively identical - to a CS R0.

 

OK; the Western Desert is closer in price to the R0 from GAK (*) but even so; what's the difference - if any - between Andertons' guits and the usual CS offerings save the serial numbering system?

Grovers can be ditched for Klusons easily enough if a more authentic spec is desired but as it is I'd be more than happy to accept one as a gift.....the dusky orange fade 'burst 943465 if anyone is feeling particularly loopy generous.

 

There are clearly some fantastic bargains to be had at the moment!

 

Pip.

 

(*) It's on special at £3,799 and is usually £3,999 as opposed to the £4,008 for GAK's R0.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I missed the bit about the neck tenon and the specs in the other link make it clear it's VERY similar - and might be effectively identical - to a CS R0.

 

OK; the Western Desert is closer in price to the R0 from GAK (*) but even so; what's the difference - if any - between Andertons' guits and the usual CS offerings save the serial numbering system?

Grovers can be ditched for Klusons easily enough if a more authentic spec is desired but as it is I'd be more than happy to accept one as a gift.....the dusky orange fade 'burst 943465 if anyone is feeling particularly loopy generous.

 

There are clearly some fantastic bargains to be had at the moment!

 

Pip.

 

(*) It's on special at £3,799 and is usually £3,999 as opposed to the £4,008 for GAK's R0.

 

Asymmetrical neck seems a bit non-authentic, if one cares about such things.

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Asymmetrical neck seems a bit non-authentic, if one cares about such things.

Well, it was ME who said asymmetrical which isn't quite correct;

 

"...back in the 60's and 70's one popular mod for Les Pauls was to carve away some of the neck to make it an elliptical curve.......Clapton did it to his Les Paul so we have done it to this one..."

 

I'm still at a bit of a loss as to what's different.

Perhaps they use a weight-relieved body blank? They say 'lightweight mahogany' but make no mention of whether it's solid, W-R'd or Chambered.

 

Who really gives a rat's fart? Both the 'Beano' and the 'Desert Burst' series' are a great buy for anyone interested in an R0 for a bit less cash...

 

Pip.

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I'm not sure what they mean about the neck shape. People seem to use the words "asymmetric" and "elliptical" interchangeably sometimes. The Jimmy Page neck is thinner in the middle of the neck and thicker at each end, that is going from the nut to the higher frets. If you read the description, it seems like on the Clapton model, it is more of an asymmetric neck that is more rounded at the low E side and thinner/flatter at the high E side, more like a modern asymmetric neck. I suppose that still would be elliptical in cross section of the neck. On the Jimmy page model they describe it the same way but that's not what I understand the "real" JP neck to be, although I suppose it could be both. Here is a link to a thread (different forum) with pictures and measurements of the JP neck: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49914

 

Another thing I discovered in all this is that the neck specs for the R0 Standard Historic and the True historic are not the same. The thickness of the Standard is more like a 59 (although could still have different shape/contour). The True Historic is more liker a modern slim taper.

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I was just trying to make sure all bases were covered here. Sorry for even offering to help.

 

As we know, the internet is a funny thing. It's very easy to misinterpret someones intent or emotion in text. People then use emojis, emoticons, whatever to help do that. You chose a tongue sticking out. Perhaps, apparently, you meant that differently than I took it. Sorry for that. I'm sure you're a decent guy who was just trying to help.

 

John

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Both the 'Beano' and the 'Desert Burst' series' are a great buy for anyone interested in an R0 for a bit less cash...

 

Pip.

 

Is it definitively established Pippy that Clapton's Beano Les Paul was a 1960 rather than a 59? I have heard many times that it was a 1959 and not a 60 as Clapton has mooted.

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Is it definitively established Pippy that Clapton's Beano Les Paul was a 1960 rather than a 59? I have heard many times that it was a 1959 and not a 60 as Clapton has mooted...

No.

 

There exists different types of circumstantial evidence which supports both claims and there are undisputed compelling details to aid both camps! Bobbin colours / neck profile etc...etc...

 

But no-one knows with 100% certainty as EC didn't have the serial number - the only surefire way of knowing - noted anywhere. 'Aficionados' can discuss the known minutiae until the cows come home but it's a fair bet no-one will ever know the truth - unless the thief or their heir/s produces the guitar...

 

Pip.

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