Les Paul Custom 20th Anni rare back headstock

[Allenjason95]

I didn't minus either of you, but my life experience has definitely been that if I were at all interested in buying a 70's Les Paul I would go to see it knowing the tuners are not original and that I don't care about that. We all changed them back then, I'd say 90% of us, it was no thing, and we didn't think at all about any future value being lost. I don't think anyone today should think about value lost due to unoriginal tuners. I think, if they are a player, they will be glad to not have those crappy keystones on there, just waiting to fail in the middle of yer giant showcase gig with some other arena rock band. And, it would be nice to see Grover with USA on the bottom. I miss that.

 

rct

 

Exactly. I understand rare uber valuable LP and people wanting them to be all original but on a 1970s and up LP? Who cares? They got swapped all the time and those guitars are never going to be high dollar collectibles.

 

When I look at a LP I make sure it's real, I look for neck breaks, mods etc. tuners are neither here nor there. As long as they aren't some cheap knockoff tuners who cares? And even then I'd just use that as a negotiating point to get a lower price because it takes about ten minutes to swap most tuners.

 

I bought a 2015 Junior because they were dirt cheap and you better believe the first thing I did was ditch the G Force.

[Allenjason95]

Everyone did it: yep, that's why all original examples are rare and therefore command a higher value.

 

Whether you think the value should be impacted is immaterial. It is. I agree with you though. I wouldn't buy a guitar for its value or rarity (not without a lottery win) but those things still affect the market.

 

Not on the vast majority of LP they don't. If you had a pristine 1974 Custom obviously it's worth more than one that's been played but neither one of them are worth huge money and not having the "correct" tuners on a 1970s (or any Norlin present regular LP) LP isn't a big deal and doesn't make a difference in the price.

 

It's like saying a car is worth less because it has non original rims. Yeah....if you're buying a collectible vintage car correct rims affect value....if you're buying a 2008 Impala or a 2012 Subaru nobody gives a ****.

 

Most LP aren't collectibles. Most have been played and are bought to be played. Stuff like tuners, cases, pickups matter if it's a really collectible guitar, like a 1950s LP....but the vast majority of LP from the Norlin era up are never going to be worth much. There's nothing special about them. A 1974 LP Custom isn't any better or worse than any other year. They're not rare. If I had one I'd play the **** out of it and not spend one second worrying about the tuners.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Not on the vast majority of LP they don't. If you had a pristine 1974 Custom obviously it's worth more than one that's been played but neither one of them are worth huge money and not having the "correct" tuners on a 1970s (or any Norlin present regular LP) LP isn't a big deal and doesn't make a difference in the price.

 

It's like saying a car is worth less because it has non original rims. Yeah....if you're buying a collectible vintage car correct rims affect value....if you're buying a 2008 Impala or a 2012 Subaru nobody gives a ****.

 

Most LP aren't collectibles. Most have been played and are bought to be played. Stuff like tuners, cases, pickups matter if it's a really collectible guitar, like a 1950s LP....but the vast majority of LP from the Norlin era up are never going to be worth much. There's nothing special about them. A 1974 LP Custom isn't any better or worse than any other year. They're not rare. If I had one I'd play the **** out of it and not spend one second worrying about the tuners.

 

Well thanks for teaching me all of that. I do know the guitar isn't valuable or rare but as soon as you change hardware on any quality instrument and lose the original or drill holes etc it is worth less. I'm not saying anyone lost millions but the fact remains that it does make a difference, however small that might be in this case.

[pippy]

I was going to add something factual here but, on reflection, thought better of it.

"You can't argue with Stupid" wins the day.

Again.

 

Pip.

[Allenjason95]

I was going to add something factual here but, on reflection, thought better of it.

"You can't argue with Stupid" wins the day.

Again.

 

Pip.

 

Yeah, it's easier to just be passive aggressive, right?

[Allenjason95]

Well thanks for teaching me all of that. I do know the guitar isn't valuable or rare but as soon as you change hardware on any quality instrument and lose the original or drill holes etc it is worth less. I'm not saying anyone lost millions but the fact remains that it does make a difference, however small that might be in this case.

 

Yeah?

 

You said:

 

"I didn't minus you, just to clarify, but what a crock. Players might not care but unfortunately the value is impacted quite a lot."

 

You said the value is "impacted quite a lot" which is nonsense as far as the average LP goes. Nobody cares if a player LP has different tuners and they most certainly won't affect the value "quite a lot".

 

You're also the guy who told the OP his guitar was a factory second based on the oval on the back of the headstock ....which, as we've since learned.....was nonsense.

 

So sorry, but I'm not really too impressed by your guitar knowledge or opinions.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Yeah?

 

You said:

 

"I didn't minus you, just to clarify, but what a crock. Players might not care but unfortunately the value is impacted quite a lot."

 

You said the value is "impacted quite a lot" which is nonsense on the as far as the average LP goes. Nobody cares if a player LP has different tuners and they most certainly won't affect the value "quite a lot".

 

You're also the guy who told the OP his guitar was a factory second based on the oval on the back of the headstock ....which, as we've since learned.....was nonsense.

 

So sorry, but I'm not really too impressed by your guitar knowledge or opinions.

 

I can see why someone is following you around the forum and minusing everything you post. You're a bit annoying and child like.

[pippy]

Yeah, it's easier to just be passive aggressive, right?

"Passive"? Yes. "Aggressive"? No.

 

...as far as the average LP goes...

Nobody cares if a player LP has different tuners and they most certainly won't affect the value "quite a lot"...

You just keep on getting it completely wrong.

 

First-off; keep to the point. The guitar we are discussing in this post is not an "average LP". It is a limited edition Twentieth Anniversary LP Custom. This 'detail' matters.

 

Secondly; the consensus at the time of their release was that these instruments, and I quote; "...may be of special interest to collectors in years to come.". And they are. Collectors will always be prepared to pay a hefty price premium for an all-original unmolested example of any good quality guitar and if it is part of a limited edition run then even more so.

 

You might not give a rat's fart as to special models or condition or originality or anything else which you might consider to be 'superficial' but to state that "nobody cares" demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of the situation.

 

You have asked many times in this post "who cares?". Collectors care. Try to remember that the next time the urge to type "Who cares?" strikes.

 

Pip.

[Allenjason95]

I can see why someone is following you around the forum and minusing everything you post. You're a bit annoying and child like.

 

Says the guy who responded to me by saying "what a crock" when I said not having original tuners is common and not a big deal.

 

It's funny how people like you can dish it out but the minute you get it back it's "annoying and child like".

[Allenjason95]

"Passive"? Yes. "Aggressive"? No.

 

 

You just keep on getting it completely wrong.

 

First-off; keep to the point. The guitar we are discussing in this post is not an "average LP". It is a limited edition Twentieth Anniversary LP Custom. This 'detail' matters.

 

Secondly; the consensus at the time of their release was that these instruments, and I quote; "...may be of special interest to collectors in years to come.". And they are. Collectors will always be prepared to pay a hefty price premium for an all-original unmolested example of any good quality guitar and if it is part of a limited edition run then even more so.

 

You might not give a rat's fart as to special models or condition or originality or anything else which you might consider to be 'superficial' but to state that "nobody cares" demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of the situation.

 

You have asked many times in this post "who cares?". Collectors care. Try to remember that the next time the urge to type "Who cares?" strikes.

 

Pip.

 

Don't tell me what to say or not say. You're a passive aggressive person. You made a passive aggressive comment to me. Own it.

 

Second a 1974 LPC isn't rare....they aren't valuable (in the context of Gibson Les Pauls) and you know it. There are a bunch for sale on Reverb right now and they start at less than 2,000.

 

And it's not that I don't care.....most people buying LP do not care if the tuners are original. Nonoriginal tuners do not affect the value. In fact sometimes nonoriginal tuners are more desirable.

 

Again....if you want to argue about a rare vintage LP from the 50-s1960, yeah, originality matters but most of those guitars aren't used regularly, they're closet (or vault at this point) queen collectibles at this point. They're very valuable collectibles because of their rarity.

 

Norlin era LP? Not rare. A 1974 Custom? Not rare. You can find them anywhere. A 1974 Norlin LPC that's already been modified with extra switches, pickups etc? Could be a great player but it's not a valuable collectible it's just another LPC in a market full of them.

 

Someone saying "I would imagine nonoriginal tuners is pretty common on a 40+ year old guitar"? Not exactly a controversial statement, it's simply a fact.

 

If you don't want to argue don't respond with your passive aggressive "I'd like to say something but you can't argue with stupid so I won't" BS. Don't insult me and then act like you're taking the high road.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Says the guy who responded to me by saying "what a crock" when I said not having original tuners is common and not a big deal.

 

It's funny how people like you can dish it out but the minute you get it back it's "annoying and child like".

 

It was a crock. I think you've missed what is making you appear childish. It's not that you're giving it back, it's that you're wrong but you can't accept it. It's also that you broke forum rules and posted profanity and that you make it personal all the time.

 

Perhaps you'll calm down, think about it and learn something. Perhaps not. I don't really care.

[Allenjason95]

It was a crock. I think you've missed what is making you appear childish. It's not that you're giving it back, it's that you're wrong but you can't accept it. It's also that you broke forum rules and posted profanity and that you make it personal all the time.

 

Perhaps you'll calm down, think about it and learn something. Perhaps not. I don't really care.

 

 

No, you were the one who was wrong in this thread, as you have already admitted.

 

I'm not wrong. You saying something (as has already proven in this very thread) doesn't make it so.

 

And making it "personal"? You replied to what I said by saying "what a crock". You didn't say "that's not true". I wasn't even talking to you.

 

Like I said you seem to be able to dish it out but when you get it back suddenly it's "childish".

 

You should just "minus" what I say lol. That'll show me.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

No, you were the one who was wrong in this thread, as you have already admitted.

[/Quote]

 

That's the thing. I was wrong and I said so. You're not capable of that.

 

I'm not wrong. You saying something (as has already proven in this very thread) doesn't make it so.

 

[/Quote]

It's amusing that you're so childish you think that when someone is mistaken that's evidence that everything else they say is wrong.

And making it "personal"? You replied to what I said by saying "what a crock". You didn't say "that's not true". I wasn't even talking to you.

[/Quote]

Yes you were. Perhaps think about what the word forum means. You were speaking to everyone.

Like I said you seem to be able to dish it out but when you get it back suddenly it's "childish".

[/Quote]

No, refusing to accept you're wrong is childish. Breaking rules because you're frustrated is childish. Disagreeing with someone in a mature manor isn't.

You should just "minus" what I say lol. That'll show me.

 

No, that would also be childish. I would only minus someone when it's appropriate.

 

Please reply. I'm enjoying this.

[Allenjason95]

That's the thing. I was wrong and I said so. You're not capable of that.

 

 

It's amusing that you're so childish you think that when someone is mistaken that's evidence that everything else they say is wrong.

 

Yes you were. Perhaps think about what the word forum means. You were speaking to everyone.

 

No, refusing to accept you're wrong is childish. Breaking rules because you're frustrated is childish. Disagreeing with someone in a mature manor isn't.

 

 

No, that would also be childish. I would only minus someone when it's appropriate.

 

Please reply. I'm enjoying this.

 

Why would you say "think about what forum means" to me? Does this being a forum make someone saying "what a crock" to a total stranger (who wasn't even talking to you and simply made a comment on what was being discussed) any less rude or "childish"?

 

You've already proven you don't know what you're talking about. "I've seen that before. It's a factory 2nd.". You didn't even say "I think that might be a factory second", lol. So again, sorry, but you saying something, as you've already demonstrated right here, doesn't make it so.

 

BTW I didn't realize that this forum was a "mature manor". Is that kind of like an old folk's home? It definitely would explain why you're acting like a *****y old woman.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Why would you say "think about what forum means" to me? Does this being a forum make someone saying "what a crock" to a total stranger (who wasn't even talking to you and simply made a comment on what was being discussed) any less rude or "childish"?

 

You've already proven you don't know what you're talking about. "I've seen that before. It's a factory 2nd.". You didn't even say "I think that might be a factory second", lol. So again, sorry, but you saying something, as you've already demonstrated right here, doesn't make it so.

 

BTW I didn't realize that this forum was a "mature manor". Is that kind of like an old folk's home? It definitely would explain why you're acting like a *****y old woman.

 

I'm going to have to spell it out aren't I. A forum is a place or facility which allows for an exchange with a wider group. The point I was making is that you were speaking to me, and everyone else in the world who might choose to read your post.

 

I can't wait for your next reply. It's really very entertaining. You could get your own TV show.

[Allenjason95]

I'm going to have to spell it out aren't I. A forum is a place or facility which allows for an exchange with a wider group. The point I was making is that you were speaking to me, and everyone else in the world who might choose to read your post.

 

I can't wait for your next reply. It's really very entertaining. You could get your own TV show.

 

Spell what out? What are you even babbling about? We're all aware that this is a forum.

 

You replied to my comment with a rude comment.....then cried like a little girl with a skinned knee .....when you got the same right back.

 

So how does this being a forum justify you replying to a stranger.....who wasn't even talking to you....rudely? Explain that to me? Because it's a forum you can be rude to people you don't know and who weren't even talking to you?

 

I thought this was a "mature manor" after all, lol?

[rct]

...then cried like a little girl with a skinned knee head injury.....

 

Fixed it.

 

Yer welcome.

 

rct

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Fixed it.

 

Yer welcome.

 

rct

 

 

 

I do hope you know that's not true. I mean, the head injury happened and all that but it's not why I'm arguing with this guy. That's just what I'm like. This isn't subjective.

 

The value is affected. The chap's wrong. It is a collectible guitar, not at the top of the market but nonetheless it is, and changing tuners and other hardware has affected its value by a fair chunk in % terms. That might only 20% because a collector now doesn't want it, taking him out the market, and it's probably a bit more than that. It wasn't super collectible but its value is positively impacted by being a 20th anniversary limited run, defining it as collectible, and negatively affected by changing the tuners, and other hardware. Simple.

 

It's the entertainment value in the guys like this that keep me going.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

If you had a pristine 1974 Custom obviously it's worth more than one that's been played but neither one of them are worth huge money

 

I don't know why there was ever anything more to say. That's it exactly. That's all I ever said, and "what a crock" .

[rct]

Oh I know. The head injury happened, and that had to be a scary time for you and yours. It has nothing to do with this. OP don't know any of this. Because internet forum.

 

rct

[pippy]

 

Pip.

[pippy]

Don't tell me what to say or not say. You're a passive aggressive person. You made a passive aggressive comment to me. Own it.

Which comment made by me was aggressive?

 

Second a 1974 LPC isn't rare.........There are a bunch for sale on Reverb right now and they start at less than 2,000...

You do keep on getting this bit wrong, don't you?

The guitar in the OP - to which I am always referring in my posts and to which you have never once specifically alluded - is not a regular 1974 LPC. It is a 20th Anniversary Limited Edition LPC. Please try to keep up.

And in any case by highlighting this detail you are proving the exact opposite from what you have been claiming throughout this thread. I fully believe you when you insist that 1974 LPCs might be readily available from $2,000. A Twentieth Anniversary LPC in all-original, very good condition, OTOH, will fetch c. $7,000 - three-and-a-half times the rate for the 'regular' '74 LPC fare in non-original trim. Perhaps you should think about that statistic for a minute (or even two) before you type your next 'who cares?'. Clearly some folks care enough.

 

Don't insult me and then act like you're taking the high road.

I have not insulted you; nor have I taken the moral High Road (in this thread).

 

Pip.

[Allenjason95]

I don't know why there was ever anything more to say. That's it exactly. That's all I ever said, and "what a crock" .

 

 

So why are you arguing then genius? And that isn't all you said: You said "value is affected an awful lot" which, on most LP is nonsense......like I said.

 

His guitar's value isn't affected by not having the original tuners. It's a common player's condition guitar that's already been modified. It certainly isn't affected "an awful lot" lol.

[Allenjason95]

Which comment made by me was aggressive?

 

 

You do keep on getting this bit wrong, don't you?

The guitar in the OP - to which I am always referring in my posts and to which you have never once specifically alluded - is not a regular 1974 LPC. It is a 20th Anniversary Limited Edition LPC. Please try to keep up.

And in any case by highlighting this detail you are proving the exact opposite from what you have been claiming throughout this thread. I fully believe you when you insist that 1974 LPCs might be readily available from $2,000. A Twentieth Anniversary LPC in all-original, very good condition, OTOH, will fetch c. $7,000 - three-and-a-half times the rate for the 'regular' '74 LPC fare in non-original trim. Perhaps you should think about that statistic for a minute (or even two) before you type your next 'who cares?'. Clearly some folks care enough.

 

 

I have not insulted you; nor have I taken the moral High Road (in this thread).

 

Pip.

 

Dude.....I've already said if you have a closet queen in pristine condition it's different (did you miss that part?) but on a player's condition guitar like the OP's nobody cares if the tuners are original or not, "try to keep up". How many dead mint 1974 LPC (with or without the silly inlay) do you see? Most guitars have been played and have dents and dings and things repaired, fixed or replaced.

 

In fact after listening to you bleat away about how original tuners and a 20th century inlay are so important I've been looking at 20th's for sale and the ones for sale right now range from around $ 2,000 (neck repair and modifications like 3rd pickup) to close to $6,000, but most I've seen seem to be in the low $4,000 range and ones with the inlay seem at least as common as ones without. These aren't rare guitars and (again, in the context of Les Pauls) aren't particularly valuable.

 

Even some of the the ones in the $5,000+range dont have original tuners like the one:

 

https://reverb.com/item/5102806-gibson-les-paul-custom-20th-anniversary-1974-white

 

Almost $6,000 for that guitar? Good luck buddy. I mean doesn't he know original tuners matter?

 

Do you have an example of a 20th anniversary guitar that has had its value affected an "awful lot" by having non original tuners on it? It's like arguing having the frets replaced affects the value on the average guitar.

 

And (stop me if you've heard this) if it's that important to you to have original tuners and you find a dead mint 1974 Custom (with the very common 20th anniversary inlay that raises that value thousands according to you) but it doesn't have "correct" tuners on it.....you could just swap "correct" tuners onto it. Apparently that would raise the value some huge amount so I'm not sure where everyone's not doing it but I've seen plenty of these guitars with non original tuners for sale today. I guess they're just not as savvy as you guys and don't realize their guitar's value is affected "an awful lot" by having "noncorrect" tuners.

 

And you are passive aggressive dude, "I would say something factual here but you can't argue with stupid" is a completely passive aggressive thing to say to someone, so own it.

[Allenjason95]

 

I do hope you know that's not true. I mean, the head injury happened and all that but it's not why I'm arguing with this guy. That's just what I'm like. This isn't subjective.

 

The value is affected. The chap's wrong. It is a collectible guitar, not at the top of the market but nonetheless it is, and changing tuners and other hardware has affected its value by a fair chunk in % terms. That might only 20% because a collector now doesn't want it, taking him out the market, and it's probably a bit more than that. It wasn't super collectible but its value is positively impacted by being a 20th anniversary limited run, defining it as collectible, and negatively affected by changing the tuners, and other hardware. Simple.

 

It's the entertainment value in the guys like this that keep me going.

 

Do you have a single shred of proof that shows a 1974 LPC's value is affected "20%" or "a bit more than that" by not having the original tuners?