Gibson Guitar Board: J-45 Hell - Gibson Guitar Board

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J-45 Hell A Luthier's Discoveries

#41 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 12:45 PM

View PostAllie, on 15 May 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

The serial number on the back of the headstock is ..as he said so full of finish that it is nearly all unreadable but the sound hole sticker is as new and yes it is indeed a 94, The guitar was in good condition other than the crack in the back of the neck at the 1st and second frets and a slight bend in the fret board at the the 14th fret giving the neck a bit more relief than it should of had, as it turns out the neck had started to pull away from the body and that was why it was determined that a neck rest was in order. This all unfolded from there. That was when he found the neck block broken and reglued and the dovetail joint off center of the body therefore requiring the shims to center it to the body when assembled.


Sorry you got stuck with this one. It certainly doesn't reflect well on Gibson.
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#42 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 12:48 PM

View Postj45nick, on 15 May 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Sorry you got stuck with this one. It certainly doesn't reflect well on Gibson.

That's my feeling, but it is what it is.
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#43 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:58 PM

So where is the guitar now? Did the break near the headstock happen before or after you got the guitar. . . , meaning, was it previously repaired, and the headstock sprayed a second time, rendering the serial # stamp there more unreadable? And do you feel that the guitar may've been refinished (check inside for overspray around the soundhole, under the top).

Thanks.

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#44 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:04 PM

1994, huh? Wow!

Neither Norlin nor Nashville...
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#45 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:08 PM

View Post62burst, on 15 May 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

So where is the guitar now? Did the break near the headstock happen before or after you got the guitar. . . , meaning, was it previously repaired, and the headstock sprayed a second time, rendering the serial # stamp there more unreadable? And do you feel that the guitar may've been refinished (check inside for overspray around the soundhole, under the top).

Thanks.

The crack was there at the headstock end when I got the guitar but not to the extent it was when I shipped it out to be fixed, and no, I don't believe the guitar had been refinished, the crack in the headstock is due to the two way truss rod putting to much stress in the back of the headstock (because of the amount of wood removed to accommodate it) while trying to get some of the relief out of the neck due to..in my opinion, the dovetail joint being in the condition it was found to be in when the neck was removed. This whole thing started with a slight crack in the back of the neck behind the two way TR...and has unfolded from there.

...this whole two way truss rod/ cracking the headstock was discussed here on this site shortly after I bought the guitar two or three years ago.
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#46 User is offline   ponty 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:13 PM

I do not believe this guitar is a 94. The 94 J-45s were Centenary models, and has the 'only a Gibson is good enough'
banner on the headstock. Like this one,
https://reverb.com/u...5-1994-sunburst
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#47 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:14 PM

View Postksdaddy, on 15 May 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

1994, huh? Wow!

Neither Norlin nor Nashville...
Yeah, disappointing to say the least, I made sure when I bought a J45 it was from the Ren Ferguson era....and it still bit me. I don't blame Gibson per say...but it looks like the had some incompetent help to weed out...hopefully that isn't a problem now. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Gibson...I would however be a lot more particular before I handed over my money.
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#48 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

View Postponty, on 15 May 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

I do not believe this guitar is a 94. The 94 J-45s were Centenary models, and has the 'only a Gibson is good enough'
banner on the headstock. Like this one,
https://reverb.com/u...5-1994-sunburst
You could be right...but when I used the method Gibson offered, to use the serial number it told me it was a 1994, I don't have the serial number at the moment or I'd post it but I'll contact Randy and have him send it to me and post it here when he gets it to me.
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#49 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:32 PM

View Postponty, on 15 May 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

I do not believe this guitar is a 94. The 94 J-45s were Centenary models, and has the 'only a Gibson is good enough'
banner on the headstock. Like this one,
https://reverb.com/u...5-1994-sunburst


. . . and the soundhole label would be hard to forget- Frenchie here on the forum posted this nice shot of his:

Posted Image

. . . does this label look familiar, Allie?

(Guessing that Frenchie never found out what the back & sides of his J-200 Special were)

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#50 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:44 PM

View Post62burst, on 15 May 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:



. . . and the soundhole label would be hard to forget- Frenchie here on the forum posted this nice shot of his:

Posted Image

. . . does this look familiar, Allie?

No, mine is an oval white tag that says made in Bozeman Montana with the serial number and model J45 VS which stands for Vintage Sunburst..It actually had tulip tuners on it when I got it and I believe they were original too. I recently put white button tuners on it because the old ones where sloppy and I like the white ones better.

I'll have the SN tonight at some point and post it up here.

Edited for content
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#51 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:57 PM

View PostAllie, on 15 May 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Yeah, disappointing to say the least, I made sure when I bought a J45 it was from the Ren Ferguson era....and it still bit me. I don't blame Gibson per say...but it looks like the had some incompetent help to weed out...hopefully that isn't a problem now. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Gibson...I would however be a lot more particular before I handed over my money.


I was being a tish sarcastic. I've owned maybe a dozen Bozeman acoustics and all were superb quality. Having said that, there are humans building them and things happen. I'm not apologizing for Bozeman staff, just saying....stuff happens.

And without downloading the contents of the Black Box installed in every Gibson made since 1985 and printing out the data of where it's been and who has laid hands on it, it's impossible to say what has occurred with that particular guitar. (more sarcasm)

I guess my sarcasm is brought about because I don't like to bash Norlin or Nashville. There is good and bad at any factory and I'd rather judge a guitar on it's own merits rather than automatically sprinkle fairy dust on anything from the Ren era OR tar and feather Norlin.
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#52 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:00 PM

Allie - So sorry you've had to go through such an experience with this guitar.

At least the information provided here should prove helpful to others in the future.
>Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '90 Tennessean / '00 J-100 Xtra
'02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '06 ES 335 / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special
'12 J-185 / '13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15
>Epis: '66 FT45n Cortez / '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton
'05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada-Elitist) / '09 Elitist 1965 Casino
>Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood D / > Ibanez: '81 M-340
>Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire
'14 Savoy A-150b / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
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#53 User is offline   george wooden 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:05 PM

View PostAllie, on 15 May 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

No, mine is a round orange tag that says made in Bozeman Montana with the serial number and model J45 VS which stands for Vintage Sunburst..It actually had tulip tuners on it when I got it and I believe they were original too. I recently put white button tuners on it because the old ones were sloppy and I like the white ones better.

I'll have the SN tonight at some point and post it up here.


I have spent many hours today reviewing again all four videos concerning this guitar.As of the time I am posting this comment, there have been 7,355 viewers seeing these four videos. This is a lot of people getting a very negative idea about the quality of a Gibson product. Now, if this many people currently have a negative of Gibson, how many people do you imagine they will speak to over the next 10 years? Since we now know who the current owner is, and is one of our own, I will say this: my thinking is that it behooves Gibson to 1. Furnish Allie the with a brand new version of her J 45, 2. Contact Randy Schartiger asap, asking him to make publicly known the steps taken to correct this situation. Also, make known the Who, What, When, Where, and Why this ever occurred. Brand loyalty takes years to establish but can disappear in a heartbeat if not addressed instantly.

These videos have a worldwide viewing audience and an eternal lifetime. How long does the current management of Gibson wish to gamble with their international reputation? To my thinking, it is a no-brainer. Bite the bullet, make the situation right with all parties involved (Allie & Randy Schartiger), make known your actions publically so you can halt the bad feelings worldwide, and move on to better relations in the future.

Just my thoughts on the best way going forward. (Do you think the resolution to this disaster will influence My opinion of Gibson ???)
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#54 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:11 PM

TROLL ALERT !
SJ200 2004
H'Bird TV 2010
J45 Custom Koa 2013
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#55 User is offline   george wooden 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:26 PM

View Postfortyearspickn, on 15 May 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

TROLL ALERT !


I fear Sir, that comment was directed directly at me!, and I take offense to such a remark. Granted, I do not have your ten years of membership on this site, but my decision to purchase a Gibson guitar was not a flippant one, nor was my choice to join this forum. I could just have easily gone with Martin. I grew up being a Les Paul fan and so my likes were centered on Gibson or Gretsch guitars. My comments were from a management viewpoint. It takes years of dedicated customer service and quality control to establish a good reputation, but in today's world, with the internet and a global market, you can lose it in a heartbeat. Just look at the airline industry over the past couple of months.You know nothing about me or my background but felt fully qualified anyway to identify me as a troll. We now have established your judgment qualifications. If you would like a better basis of my thought process then please take the time to review my last comment on the fourth video in the series. Before getting too deeply involved in this situation I took the time to read every single comment on every video in this saga. I wanted a clear, concise understanding of everything. I seriously doubt you did that seeing how quick you were to trash my credibility. Wishing you a great week Sir.
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#56 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:46 PM

Although I didn't post these videos..I'm not sorry that someone else did. I'm also not looking for (nor expecting) anything from Gibson. I am not the original owner, however when I bought the guitar the issue with the neck that has been revealed would never have crossed my mind...not on a Gibson, I have lost much respect for the company, and it really boils down to a person or two IN the building process that probably aren't even at Gibson anymore. I do wonder if there are any more Gibson guitars out there with an unsuspecting owner that thinks he has one of the best,when in reality it's something less. That being said I'm going to get mine repaired and move on. The only real issue will be the finish. It will most likely never be as good as it was before this catastrophe. I'll live with.
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#57 User is offline   JWG4927 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:20 PM

Did George Wooden even read any of the posts bringing out additional information after his posting of all of the videos? It would be wise for the repair person to remove those incriminating videos. The owner of the guitar is not pleased with the damage to the finish, which was caused by using a steam CLOTHES IRON, steaming the finish as well as the neck.

The neck joint could have been damaged and a half hearted repair could be seen by the injection of a glue or epoxy, as pointed out in the video. Or a misalignment from a poorly done bridge reglue. This could've happened at anytime. So the guitar's previous owners never noticed any problems? The original owner would have had a waranteed repair done.

As far as feeling bad for those who have problematic guitars but are happily playing them, well ignorance is bliss and why let them know that they should not be happy?
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#58 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:21 PM

Ash George. You cut me to the quick.Fear not. I'm not going to watch four hours of some luthiers YouTube posts. Never have. Never will. If you feel that disqualifies my having an opinion on the comments you actually posted HERE, then you are welcome to that feeling.
SJ200 2004
H'Bird TV 2010
J45 Custom Koa 2013
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#59 User is offline   george wooden 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 07:21 PM

View PostAllie, on 15 May 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

Although I didn't post these videos..I'm not sorry that someone else did. I'm also not looking for (nor expecting) anything from Gibson. I am not the original owner, however when I bought the guitar the issue with the neck that has been revealed would never have crossed my mind...not on a Gibson, I have lost much respect for the company, and it really boils down to a person or two IN the building process that probably aren't even at Gibson anymore. I do wonder if there are any more Gibson guitars out there with an unsuspecting owner that thinks he has one of the best, when in reality it's something less. That being said I'm going to get mine repaired and move on. The only real issue will be the finish. It will most likely never be as good as it was before this catastrophe. I'll live with.


Allie, I posted in the comments here, and on the youtube videos, my feelings regarding the entire process of this series of videos. I have read every comment on this forum regarding this guitar as well as every comment on the 4 youtube videos. I now have several members of this forum trying to tar and feather me for speaking out and suggesting that Gibson management should have had an individual stand tall and nip this in the bud and make things right for both you and Randy. he is not the one tried to hide a cracked neck joint, nor was he the one who shaved the tenon on the neck to get the fretboard to align with the center line of the top and bridge nor was he responsible for the center line of the sides being 3/16" of that of the top. I have yet to hear a peep out of one person from Gibson Production or Quality Control that would claim this guitar represents the level of Gibson standards. You purchased it thinking it did seeing the label inside the soundhole. I am a photographer who is a member of both Canon and Nikon forums. If we voice a problem with our equipment in either forum there are company staff who moderate those forums who are quick to get right to work and get it resolved. At this point, it is obvious Gibson has no concern in this area and that is a shame, and disturbs me greatly considering the selling price of these guitars exceed the price of many houses.
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#60 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 07:35 PM

I have a question that probably won't mean much to anyone else, but the answer might help me make sense of all this:

Allie - were you aware that the videos included on this thread were being produced and/or that they were going to be posted to the web?
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