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J-45 Hell


Leonard McCoy

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Yeah, disappointing to say the least, I made sure when I bought a J45 it was from the Ren Ferguson era....and it still bit me. I don't blame Gibson per say...but it looks like the had some incompetent help to weed out...hopefully that isn't a problem now. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Gibson...I would however be a lot more particular before I handed over my money.

 

I was being a tish sarcastic. I've owned maybe a dozen Bozeman acoustics and all were superb quality. Having said that, there are humans building them and things happen. I'm not apologizing for Bozeman staff, just saying....stuff happens.

 

And without downloading the contents of the Black Box installed in every Gibson made since 1985 and printing out the data of where it's been and who has laid hands on it, it's impossible to say what has occurred with that particular guitar. (more sarcasm)

 

I guess my sarcasm is brought about because I don't like to bash Norlin or Nashville. There is good and bad at any factory and I'd rather judge a guitar on it's own merits rather than automatically sprinkle fairy dust on anything from the Ren era OR tar and feather Norlin.

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No, mine is a round orange tag that says made in Bozeman Montana with the serial number and model J45 VS which stands for Vintage Sunburst..It actually had tulip tuners on it when I got it and I believe they were original too. I recently put white button tuners on it because the old ones were sloppy and I like the white ones better.

 

I'll have the SN tonight at some point and post it up here.

 

I have spent many hours today reviewing again all four videos concerning this guitar.As of the time I am posting this comment, there have been 7,355 viewers seeing these four videos. This is a lot of people getting a very negative idea about the quality of a Gibson product. Now, if this many people currently have a negative of Gibson, how many people do you imagine they will speak to over the next 10 years? Since we now know who the current owner is, and is one of our own, I will say this: my thinking is that it behooves Gibson to 1. Furnish Allie the with a brand new version of her J 45, 2. Contact Randy Schartiger asap, asking him to make publicly known the steps taken to correct this situation. Also, make known the Who, What, When, Where, and Why this ever occurred. Brand loyalty takes years to establish but can disappear in a heartbeat if not addressed instantly.

 

These videos have a worldwide viewing audience and an eternal lifetime. How long does the current management of Gibson wish to gamble with their international reputation? To my thinking, it is a no-brainer. Bite the bullet, make the situation right with all parties involved (Allie & Randy Schartiger), make known your actions publically so you can halt the bad feelings worldwide, and move on to better relations in the future.

 

Just my thoughts on the best way going forward. (Do you think the resolution to this disaster will influence My opinion of Gibson ???)

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TROLL ALERT !

 

I fear Sir, that comment was directed directly at me!, and I take offense to such a remark. Granted, I do not have your ten years of membership on this site, but my decision to purchase a Gibson guitar was not a flippant one, nor was my choice to join this forum. I could just have easily gone with Martin. I grew up being a Les Paul fan and so my likes were centered on Gibson or Gretsch guitars. My comments were from a management viewpoint. It takes years of dedicated customer service and quality control to establish a good reputation, but in today's world, with the internet and a global market, you can lose it in a heartbeat. Just look at the airline industry over the past couple of months.You know nothing about me or my background but felt fully qualified anyway to identify me as a troll. We now have established your judgment qualifications. If you would like a better basis of my thought process then please take the time to review my last comment on the fourth video in the series. Before getting too deeply involved in this situation I took the time to read every single comment on every video in this saga. I wanted a clear, concise understanding of everything. I seriously doubt you did that seeing how quick you were to trash my credibility. Wishing you a great week Sir.

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Although I didn't post these videos..I'm not sorry that someone else did. I'm also not looking for (nor expecting) anything from Gibson. I am not the original owner, however when I bought the guitar the issue with the neck that has been revealed would never have crossed my mind...not on a Gibson, I have lost much respect for the company, and it really boils down to a person or two IN the building process that probably aren't even at Gibson anymore. I do wonder if there are any more Gibson guitars out there with an unsuspecting owner that thinks he has one of the best,when in reality it's something less. That being said I'm going to get mine repaired and move on. The only real issue will be the finish. It will most likely never be as good as it was before this catastrophe. I'll live with.

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Did George Wooden even read any of the posts bringing out additional information after his posting of all of the videos? It would be wise for the repair person to remove those incriminating videos. The owner of the guitar is not pleased with the damage to the finish, which was caused by using a steam CLOTHES IRON, steaming the finish as well as the neck.

 

The neck joint could have been damaged and a half hearted repair could be seen by the injection of a glue or epoxy, as pointed out in the video. Or a misalignment from a poorly done bridge reglue. This could've happened at anytime. So the guitar's previous owners never noticed any problems? The original owner would have had a waranteed repair done.

 

As far as feeling bad for those who have problematic guitars but are happily playing them, well ignorance is bliss and why let them know that they should not be happy?

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Ash George. You cut me to the quick.Fear not. I'm not going to watch four hours of some luthiers YouTube posts. Never have. Never will. If you feel that disqualifies my having an opinion on the comments you actually posted HERE, then you are welcome to that feeling.

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Although I didn't post these videos..I'm not sorry that someone else did. I'm also not looking for (nor expecting) anything from Gibson. I am not the original owner, however when I bought the guitar the issue with the neck that has been revealed would never have crossed my mind...not on a Gibson, I have lost much respect for the company, and it really boils down to a person or two IN the building process that probably aren't even at Gibson anymore. I do wonder if there are any more Gibson guitars out there with an unsuspecting owner that thinks he has one of the best, when in reality it's something less. That being said I'm going to get mine repaired and move on. The only real issue will be the finish. It will most likely never be as good as it was before this catastrophe. I'll live with.

 

Allie, I posted in the comments here, and on the youtube videos, my feelings regarding the entire process of this series of videos. I have read every comment on this forum regarding this guitar as well as every comment on the 4 youtube videos. I now have several members of this forum trying to tar and feather me for speaking out and suggesting that Gibson management should have had an individual stand tall and nip this in the bud and make things right for both you and Randy. he is not the one tried to hide a cracked neck joint, nor was he the one who shaved the tenon on the neck to get the fretboard to align with the center line of the top and bridge nor was he responsible for the center line of the sides being 3/16" of that of the top. I have yet to hear a peep out of one person from Gibson Production or Quality Control that would claim this guitar represents the level of Gibson standards. You purchased it thinking it did seeing the label inside the soundhole. I am a photographer who is a member of both Canon and Nikon forums. If we voice a problem with our equipment in either forum there are company staff who moderate those forums who are quick to get right to work and get it resolved. At this point, it is obvious Gibson has no concern in this area and that is a shame, and disturbs me greatly considering the selling price of these guitars exceed the price of many houses.

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I have a question that probably won't mean much to anyone else, but the answer might help me make sense of all this:

 

Allie - were you aware that the videos included on this thread were being produced and/or that they were going to be posted to the web?

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Allie, I posted in the comments here, and on the youtube videos, my feelings regarding the entire process of this series of videos. I have read every comment on this forum regarding this guitar as well as every comment on the 4 youtube videos. I now have several members of this forum trying to tar and feather me for speaking out and suggesting that Gibson management should have had an individual stand tall and nip this in the bud and make things right for both you and Randy. he is not the one tried to hide a cracked neck joint, nor was he the one who shaved the tenon on the neck to get the fretboard to align with the center line of the top and bridge nor was he responsible for the center line of the sides being 3/16" of that of the top. I have yet to hear a peep out of one person from Gibson Production or Quality Control that would claim this guitar represents the level of Gibson standards. You purchased it thinking it did seeing the label inside the soundhole. I am a photographer who is a member of both Canon and Nikon forums. If we voice a problem with our equipment in either forum there are company staff who moderate those forums who are quick to get right to work and get it resolved. At this point, it is obvious Gibson has no concern in this area and that is a shame, and disturbs me greatly considering the selling price of these guitars exceed the price of many houses.

Hi George. I don't believe anyone here means you harm. All of us get outspoken at times, and disagreements happen - sometimes it's just a misunderstanding and sometimes it isn't. All in all, we mostly survive. By the way, where can I buy a house for the street price of a new J-45?

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That's my feeling, but it is what it is.

I feel your pain and also endorse your attitude. A lemon got loose and eventually fetched up with you - I have had that experience - and although I nearly always buy used or vintage guitars, there's no question that getting blindsided is always a possibility.

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Hi George. I don't believe anyone here means you harm. All of us get outspoken at times, and disagreements happen - sometimes it's just a misunderstanding and sometimes it isn't. All in all, we mostly survive. By the way, where can I buy a house for the street price of a new J-45?

Are we going there again? Back in the time I was referring to.....when some of those who post here were kids, go back and reread that thread. I wasn't referring to just J45's, I was referring to high end production guitars in general and Gibsons in particular. Sorry it went over your head.
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I have a question that probably won't mean much to anyone else, but the answer might help me make sense of all this:

 

Allie - were you aware that the videos included on this thread were being produced and/or that they were going to be posted to the web?

Your right... it doesn't mean much,at least not to me. I was aware that the luthier had a Youtube channel, I was also aware that he doesn't video every repair he does,...not even close...I was not aware that Gibson had gomped up my guitar before they sent it out of the plant when it was built,Nor did I expect the neck to be off of it (but now I'm glad it did) but as it turned out ..that is what it needed to fix it. My point being, when I sent the guitar to Randy for a repair, it was for a crack in the back of the neck at the headstock end under the two way truss rod, and a setup to get some of the relief out of the neck to make it playable. I do agree with George W. in so far as the fact that in this day and age nobody or nothing is really private, the internet has changed that forever.

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Are we going there again? Back in the time I was referring to.....when some of those who post here were kids, go back and reread that thread. I wasn't referring to just J45's, I was referring to high end production guitars in general and Gibsons in particular. Sorry it went over your head.

Umm...Ok...I was responding to George - specifically to his remark about being tarred and feathered by some of the folks here, but OK. The remark about the house wasn't meant to be snarky - I thought the notion was funny, but perhaps property values are more in line with Gibson prices wherever you folks live. As far as whatever you meant, whenever you made the real estate comment, I must have misunderstood where the remark originated. Didn't mean to rattle your chain😐

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Your right... it doesn't mean much,at least not to me. I was aware that the luthier had a Youtube channel, I was also aware that he doesn't video every repair he does,...not even close...I was not aware that Gibson had gomped up my guitar before they sent it out of the plant when it was built,Nor did I expect the neck to be off of it (but now I'm glad it did) but as it turned out ..that is what it needed to fix it. My point being, when I sent the guitar to Randy for a repair, it was for a crack in the back of the neck at the headstock end under the two way truss rod, and a setup to get some of the relief out of the neck to make it playable. I do agree with George W. in so far as the fact that in this day and age nobody or nothing is really private, the internet has changed that forever.

Again, Allie, I humbly beg your pardon as the tone here is that I've hit some nerve for which I did not aim. Thank you for responding - I wish you, your unfortunate guitar, and your video producing luthier nothing but the best.

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Umm...Ok...I was responding to George - specifically to his remark about being tarred and feathered by some of the folks here, but OK. The remark about the house wasn't meant to be snarky - I thought the notion was funny, but perhaps property values are more in line with Gibson prices wherever you folks live. As far as whatever you meant, whenever you made the real estate comment, I must have misunderstood where the remark originated. Didn't mean to rattle your chain😐

Understood, I thought the real-etate comment was a stab at our past conversation...since I was part of this conversation, I hope you see my point.
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I am hoping someone here with more knowledge about how to cipher out an accurate date with a Gibson serial number can date this guitar with a high degree of certainty....I truly do hope it is not from the Gibson Montana era...but the sound hole tag says it is. I used the same method to date this guitar as the one I used to date my 1997 CL20 Standard plus...which proved to be an accurate date.

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Is it all definite that Gibson sent it out dodgy ?

 

No shadow of a doubt that someone wasn't trying to be a luthier ??

We'll never freaking know - best to just make it up as we go - (bad couplet, granted). Time to drop this thread off at the pool.

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Understood, I thought the real-etate comment was a stab at our past conversation...since I was part of this conversation, I hope you see my point.

Yeah, we're pretty much even - I pissed you off/you pissed me off - exactly the kind of misunderstanding I was trying to explain to George - we're all good as far as I know😇

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Again, Allie, I humbly beg your pardon as the tone here is that I've hit some nerve for which I did not aim. Thank you for responding - I wish you, your unfortunate guitar, and your video producing luthier nothing but the best.

Point taken...I do believe we just rub each other the wrong way..unfortunate, but it happens...lol.

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Is it all definite that Gibson sent it out dodgy ?

 

No shadow of a doubt that someone wasn't trying to be a luthier ??

I can only vouch for the guitar as I see it/know it. When I purchased the guitar it was in near pristine condition (with normal signs of play for a twenty year old guitar, nothing notable stood out) other than the barely visible parallel crack in the back of the neck under the headstock end of the fret board...and the slight upward sharp bend at the 14th fret which made the guitar have too much relief to really play comfortably....while attempting to gain some back bow by adjusting the truss rod the crack in the back of the neck worsened....That is what I sent the guitar...after watching many of the guitar techs videos, to him for the neck repair, this all has unfolded from there.

 

note...by sharp bend in the fret board at the 14th fret I mean not really sweeping, but more of an abrupt bend but the neck at that time was still tight to the body and the finish did not appear to be cracked there.

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Yeah, we're pretty much even - I pissed you off/you pissed me off - exactly the kind of misunderstanding I was trying to explain to George - we're all good as far as I know😇

..Lol, I totally agree.

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